Geico using pro bikes in amateurs

Gringoe
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Gringoe
Edited Date/Time 8/1/2015 4:03pm
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
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TommyLee93
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TommyLee93 7/31/2015 6:33am
7/31/2015 6:33am
That is nothing compared to the bikes that DMC and R&D riders had back in the 80's.
Jack mehoff
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Jack mehoff 7/31/2015 6:34am
7/31/2015 6:34am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
Cain you still claim a bike down there , if so how much , might be a cheap way to get a rocket
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/31/2015 6:36am
7/31/2015 6:36am
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock motor but the rider thought it was the tricked out 30g pro motor he would have the same lap times. It's all in the head.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 6:38am
7/31/2015 6:38am
TXDirt wrote:
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock...
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock motor but the rider thought it was the tricked out 30g pro motor he would have the same lap times. It's all in the head.
On a 250f I don't think that's true at all. A stock honda is slow as dog shit.

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Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 6:39am
7/31/2015 6:39am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
Jack mehoff wrote:
Cain you still claim a bike down there , if so how much , might be a cheap way to get a rocket
Yep just double the msrp of a stocker and its yours ( there are other stipulations I believe but that's the main bit)
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 6:39am
7/31/2015 6:39am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 6:40am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
Jack mehoff wrote:
Cain you still claim a bike down there , if so how much , might be a cheap way to get a rocket
Edit: double post
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/31/2015 6:44am
7/31/2015 6:44am
TXDirt wrote:
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock...
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock motor but the rider thought it was the tricked out 30g pro motor he would have the same lap times. It's all in the head.
Gringoe wrote:
On a 250f I don't think that's true at all. A stock honda is slow as dog shit.
I was generalizing. These kids are fast because of their talent. Not because of the bike. That's what I'm getting at. These kids are fast because they go fast. Not because the bike makes them go fast. Motocross has always been about the rider and not so much the bike. Where as in NASCAR it's more the opposite. It's about the car and not so much the driver.

I think that's part of the great thing about motocross. It's great to see these dads spend 10k tricking out an 80 for the kid only to see them get beat by someone else with just a modified pipe!

It's all about the rider and his/her abilities, or lack thereof.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 6:49am
7/31/2015 6:49am
TXDirt wrote:
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock...
In general I'm okay with this. At this level the rider is 95% and bike 5% anyways. I firmly believe that if it was a stock motor but the rider thought it was the tricked out 30g pro motor he would have the same lap times. It's all in the head.
Gringoe wrote:
On a 250f I don't think that's true at all. A stock honda is slow as dog shit.
TXDirt wrote:
I was generalizing. These kids are fast because of their talent. Not because of the bike. That's what I'm getting at. These kids are fast because...
I was generalizing. These kids are fast because of their talent. Not because of the bike. That's what I'm getting at. These kids are fast because they go fast. Not because the bike makes them go fast. Motocross has always been about the rider and not so much the bike. Where as in NASCAR it's more the opposite. It's about the car and not so much the driver.

I think that's part of the great thing about motocross. It's great to see these dads spend 10k tricking out an 80 for the kid only to see them get beat by someone else with just a modified pipe!

It's all about the rider and his/her abilities, or lack thereof.
The thing is is this isn't the 80 class at chicken licks racing. These top dudes in A class are seperated by nearly nothing most of the time talent and speed wise.

I get what your saying, but I think it's a bigger deal at this level than you think.
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 7/31/2015 6:49am
7/31/2015 6:49am
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of all those classes that Honda is leading (I just checked)...

Honda needs a special motor for that 150cc turtle chaser, because it's getting Smoked by the Smokers...

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Gringoe 7/31/2015 6:52am
7/31/2015 6:52am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of [b]all those classes[/b] that Honda is leading (I just checked)... Honda needs a special motor for...
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of all those classes that Honda is leading (I just checked)...

Honda needs a special motor for that 150cc turtle chaser, because it's getting Smoked by the Smokers...

All those classes as in the 2 they are entered in and charbaneau blew the first Moto in the other?

What about last year when Hampshire swept the floor with everyone..
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TXDirt 7/31/2015 6:53am
7/31/2015 6:53am
Gringoe wrote:
On a 250f I don't think that's true at all. A stock honda is slow as dog shit.
TXDirt wrote:
I was generalizing. These kids are fast because of their talent. Not because of the bike. That's what I'm getting at. These kids are fast because...
I was generalizing. These kids are fast because of their talent. Not because of the bike. That's what I'm getting at. These kids are fast because they go fast. Not because the bike makes them go fast. Motocross has always been about the rider and not so much the bike. Where as in NASCAR it's more the opposite. It's about the car and not so much the driver.

I think that's part of the great thing about motocross. It's great to see these dads spend 10k tricking out an 80 for the kid only to see them get beat by someone else with just a modified pipe!

It's all about the rider and his/her abilities, or lack thereof.
Gringoe wrote:
The thing is is this isn't the 80 class at chicken licks racing. These top dudes in A class are seperated by nearly nothing most of...
The thing is is this isn't the 80 class at chicken licks racing. These top dudes in A class are seperated by nearly nothing most of the time talent and speed wise.

I get what your saying, but I think it's a bigger deal at this level than you think.
I agree with you. I'm not trying to minimize it. No matter the equipment it's still 95% rider ability. When you get to the top levels of the sport there is less and less that separates the best riders. I get that and totally agree with you. Sometimes it can be that 5% that is the difference because at this level the top kids are all fast.
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h&m_cycle 7/31/2015 7:03am
7/31/2015 7:03am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of [b]all those classes[/b] that Honda is leading (I just checked)... Honda needs a special motor for...
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of all those classes that Honda is leading (I just checked)...

Honda needs a special motor for that 150cc turtle chaser, because it's getting Smoked by the Smokers...

There more then 2 Honda's racing all the classes, I'm talking about in general... It's a good old Honda beat down...
As far as Hampshire, we will see if he still has a job at Honda after next season...

Lets see what happens to Matthew Bisceglia, hope he gets a Yamaha ride and wins...Cool
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526 7/31/2015 7:04am
7/31/2015 7:04am
Are the bikes outside the realm of the AMA's rules?
Bluelion
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Bluelion 7/31/2015 7:07am
7/31/2015 7:07am
I think it is perfectly fine, because that is what the class that they are competeing in are designed for. They are mod friendly classes. Riders don't have to enter into those classes if they dont have a modified bike. That is what the stock classes are for..
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neysbo 7/31/2015 7:07am
7/31/2015 7:07am
And you don't think Forkner is on a full blown PC bike ?
Mchenault499 7/31/2015 7:09am
7/31/2015 7:09am
I don't think it's that big of a problem. The better rider is going to win most of the time. IF they are using pro bikes, and i'm not sure that they are, it's not like these other kids are on 125s. These days you can put a few grand into a bike and make it pretty damn good.
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CrGuy2T 7/31/2015 7:10am
7/31/2015 7:10am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 7:11am
I don't think they are the exact race bike they use in the pros. I remember Rj Hamshire talking about how much faster his national bike was than his ametuer bike last year. He also mentioned the claiming rule as well. I want to say it was in his first rookie race he had a short interview.
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:17am
7/31/2015 7:17am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of [b]all those classes[/b] that Honda is leading (I just checked)... Honda needs a special motor for...
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of all those classes that Honda is leading (I just checked)...

Honda needs a special motor for that 150cc turtle chaser, because it's getting Smoked by the Smokers...

h&m_cycle wrote:
There more then 2 Honda's racing all the classes, I'm talking about in general... It's a good old Honda beat down... As far as Hampshire, we...
There more then 2 Honda's racing all the classes, I'm talking about in general... It's a good old Honda beat down...
As far as Hampshire, we will see if he still has a job at Honda after next season...

Lets see what happens to Matthew Bisceglia, hope he gets a Yamaha ride and wins...Cool
We are talking about the geico bikes (bike this week) not Hondas in general

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Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:17am
7/31/2015 7:17am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 7:17am
neysbo wrote:
And you don't think Forkner is on a full blown PC bike ?
No I don't because he's not..
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:18am
7/31/2015 7:18am
Bluelion wrote:
I think it is perfectly fine, because that is what the class that they are competeing in are designed for. They are mod friendly classes. Riders...
I think it is perfectly fine, because that is what the class that they are competeing in are designed for. They are mod friendly classes. Riders don't have to enter into those classes if they dont have a modified bike. That is what the stock classes are for..
There isn't a stock A class...they are all mod.
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Question 7/31/2015 7:23am
7/31/2015 7:23am

I have no viewpoint on using pro equipment in the highest level in amateur racing, before turning pro.

I just reply because the 95% rider & 5% equipment is, I think, delusional. Put any mid pack rider on a top 3 rocket (which does not necessarly mean $$$ in parts but to find all the tricks) and he will be top 5 after training 3 months on it. Good amateurs know how to ride a bike at 99%. It is true that talent makes the final difference, but I give much more credit to the team, where & who you are riding with, fitness, money, and luck.
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:25am
7/31/2015 7:25am
Mchenault499 wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a problem. The better rider is going to win most of the time. IF they are using pro bikes...
I don't think it's that big of a problem. The better rider is going to win most of the time. IF they are using pro bikes, and i'm not sure that they are, it's not like these other kids are on 125s. These days you can put a few grand into a bike and make it pretty damn good.
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a huge deal just an observation on the other teams vs geico.

My original post is just something that I noticed when watching lorettas this week, and the past 2 years in general. The geico bikes sound meaner than any bike on the track at every am race and there is a big difference in sound from a very mod crf250 vs geico 250. Like I said they are the only bike from the am teams that sound the same as there pro bikes.


With my factory ear dyno of course
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Jack mehoff 7/31/2015 7:25am
7/31/2015 7:25am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of [b]all those classes[/b] that Honda is leading (I just checked)... Honda needs a special motor for...
Let them, the 450A is the only one out of all those classes that Honda is leading (I just checked)...

Honda needs a special motor for that 150cc turtle chaser, because it's getting Smoked by the Smokers...

h&m_cycle wrote:
There more then 2 Honda's racing all the classes, I'm talking about in general... It's a good old Honda beat down... As far as Hampshire, we...
There more then 2 Honda's racing all the classes, I'm talking about in general... It's a good old Honda beat down...
As far as Hampshire, we will see if he still has a job at Honda after next season...

Lets see what happens to Matthew Bisceglia, hope he gets a Yamaha ride and wins...Cool
Gringoe wrote:
We are talking about the geico bikes (bike this week) not Hondas in general
all it takes is some pissed off parent that has the means to claim it they should it would put a end to that
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:26am
7/31/2015 7:26am
Question wrote:
I have no viewpoint on using pro equipment in the highest level in amateur racing, before turning pro. I just reply because the 95% rider &...

I have no viewpoint on using pro equipment in the highest level in amateur racing, before turning pro.

I just reply because the 95% rider & 5% equipment is, I think, delusional. Put any mid pack rider on a top 3 rocket (which does not necessarly mean $$$ in parts but to find all the tricks) and he will be top 5 after training 3 months on it. Good amateurs know how to ride a bike at 99%. It is true that talent makes the final difference, but I give much more credit to the team, where & who you are riding with, fitness, money, and luck.
I agree with most of that
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sesker15 7/31/2015 7:29am
7/31/2015 7:29am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
Read this. http://www.dirtrider.com/features/rj-hampshire-factory-connection-honda…
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Bluelion 7/31/2015 7:30am
7/31/2015 7:30am
There is not a stock pro class ether..So what is your point? Its all part of moving up.
The oprotunity to ride stock classe are at the beginner and intermediate levels. where they should be.
The A classes are considered semi pro classes. an A rider can hold a pro license.
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ML512 7/31/2015 7:34am
7/31/2015 7:34am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 7:34am
neysbo wrote:
And you don't think Forkner is on a full blown PC bike ?
Gringoe wrote:
No I don't because he's not..
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:34am
7/31/2015 7:34am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
sesker15 wrote:
Read this. http://www.dirtrider.com/features/rj-hampshire-factory-connection-honda…
That article means what exactly?
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Bluelion 7/31/2015 7:37am
7/31/2015 7:37am
So what is the answer here?
1. Add more classes (again)Sad
2. Put a dollar limit on how much you can spend on your bike?
3. Make cheper and easier to steal (i mean claim a bike)???
4. Make every one ride the same bike?
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:38am
7/31/2015 7:38am
neysbo wrote:
And you don't think Forkner is on a full blown PC bike ?
Gringoe wrote:
No I don't because he's not..
ML512 wrote:
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go...
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Wasn't the star thing one and done though? I didn't think they did it more than once or twice.

Didn't know that they were letting charbaneau go, making room for forkner?

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