GP circuits are too rough?

gjbruny
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gjbruny
Edited Date/Time 5/14/2015 5:29am
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the guys were saying that Desalle would probably be the first to complain about the track conditions if he made it to the podium. They took it a step further and said that the deteriorating track conditions are making it too dangerous and it is a problem that the GPs are facing and that steps need to be taken to clean up the tracks prior to the first and second motos.

go to somewhere within 5 minutes after Searle's crash in moto 2 to catch what they said. i'm really surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

so which is it? are tracks too groomed or too rough?
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overthebars39 5/11/2015 8:58pm
5/11/2015 8:58pm
I think the variety of soil in the GP's bring certain dangers, that up to a point on some occasion grooming is in place for the benefit of safety. There is more to it then 'too groomed or too rough'. Just like some US tracks would benefit of no grooming to make the most skilled riders shine.
tvo314
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tvo314 5/11/2015 8:58pm
5/11/2015 8:58pm
gjbruny wrote:
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the...
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the guys were saying that Desalle would probably be the first to complain about the track conditions if he made it to the podium. They took it a step further and said that the deteriorating track conditions are making it too dangerous and it is a problem that the GPs are facing and that steps need to be taken to clean up the tracks prior to the first and second motos.

go to somewhere within 5 minutes after Searle's crash in moto 2 to catch what they said. i'm really surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

so which is it? are tracks too groomed or too rough?
Good point. It can't be both. There sure were some sketchy crashes this weekend. I guess it's just a dangerous sport, but maybe somewhere between the two styles is best? Anyway I've got tons of respect for any of the pros who race those tracks whether it's the GPs or the Nationals.

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overthebars39 5/11/2015 9:01pm
5/11/2015 9:01pm
gjbruny wrote:
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the...
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the guys were saying that Desalle would probably be the first to complain about the track conditions if he made it to the podium. They took it a step further and said that the deteriorating track conditions are making it too dangerous and it is a problem that the GPs are facing and that steps need to be taken to clean up the tracks prior to the first and second motos.

go to somewhere within 5 minutes after Searle's crash in moto 2 to catch what they said. i'm really surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

so which is it? are tracks too groomed or too rough?
tvo314 wrote:
Good point. It can't be both. There sure were some sketchy crashes this weekend. I guess it's just a dangerous sport, but maybe somewhere between the...
Good point. It can't be both. There sure were some sketchy crashes this weekend. I guess it's just a dangerous sport, but maybe somewhere between the two styles is best? Anyway I've got tons of respect for any of the pros who race those tracks whether it's the GPs or the Nationals.
Why can't it be both? Different soil and weather conditions have influence on how tracks form and deteriorate. I don't think it's that 'black and white'.
gjbruny
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gjbruny 5/11/2015 9:07pm
5/11/2015 9:07pm
overthebars39 wrote:
I think the variety of soil in the GP's bring certain dangers, that up to a point on some occasion grooming is in place for the...
I think the variety of soil in the GP's bring certain dangers, that up to a point on some occasion grooming is in place for the benefit of safety. There is more to it then 'too groomed or too rough'. Just like some US tracks would benefit of no grooming to make the most skilled riders shine.
thats my point..... who makes the call? who is the one too judge that one track deserves grooming while another may not. how do you even come up with parameters for this?

and to be honest, i thought "roughness" is what distinguished the GPs? I just found it odd that the US tracks have been somewhat getting bashed for grooming the tracks from people abroad (and many from the US when things didn't go as planned for RV) and come to find out, many in the GPs feel that they need to make them more like the US tracks in terms of race weekend track maintenance.
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JB 19 5/11/2015 9:14pm
5/11/2015 9:14pm
I watch the US nationals and I don't see smooth tracks....what I see are tracks that develop differently than GP tracks. I would bet that if the last 3 MX Des Nations races were in the US with typical MX Sports grooming that America wouldn't be 0-3.

Calling the national tracks smooth is ridiculous.
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tvo314 5/11/2015 9:20pm
5/11/2015 9:20pm
overthebars39 wrote:
Why can't it be both? Different soil and weather conditions have influence on how tracks form and deteriorate. I don't think it's that 'black and white'.
You make a good point about the differing soils and weather conditions. It's another reason why this sport is so demanding.
kongols
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kongols 5/11/2015 9:25pm
5/11/2015 9:25pm
Fix dangerous places like jump take ofs.
tvo314
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tvo314 5/11/2015 9:25pm
5/11/2015 9:25pm
JB 19 wrote:
I watch the US nationals and I don't see smooth tracks....what I see are tracks that develop differently than GP tracks. I would bet that if...
I watch the US nationals and I don't see smooth tracks....what I see are tracks that develop differently than GP tracks. I would bet that if the last 3 MX Des Nations races were in the US with typical MX Sports grooming that America wouldn't be 0-3.

Calling the national tracks smooth is ridiculous.
And yeah, the US tracks are just as gnarly in their own way and I would never say that they are smooth. Personally, as a fan I love that I get to watch two series that are very different.
overthebars39 5/11/2015 9:30pm
5/11/2015 9:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2015 9:35pm
gjbruny wrote:
thats my point..... who makes the call? who is the one too judge that one track deserves grooming while another may not. how do you even...
thats my point..... who makes the call? who is the one too judge that one track deserves grooming while another may not. how do you even come up with parameters for this?

and to be honest, i thought "roughness" is what distinguished the GPs? I just found it odd that the US tracks have been somewhat getting bashed for grooming the tracks from people abroad (and many from the US when things didn't go as planned for RV) and come to find out, many in the GPs feel that they need to make them more like the US tracks in terms of race weekend track maintenance.
I don't see it as bashing, i heard (and read) idea's and opinions. From both fans and experience experts. Don't forget the soil on both sides is different and race formats are different, so tracks develop in another way. And GP tracks just has more racing on them on a single weekend. So it's no suprise that a track like the one this weekend turns into something sketchy and dangerous on some parts of it. Just like US tracks can form those spots as well.

Who Should makes the call of grooming? I think that's something that should be discussed between the riders and the organizers. And i think the GP's have allot of work in that area of professionalism.
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 5/11/2015 9:31pm
5/11/2015 9:31pm
Alvear999 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/08/09/61935/s1200_20140809_182638.jpg[/img] "Smooth"


"Smooth"
What track is that?
Alvear999
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Alvear999 5/11/2015 9:32pm
5/11/2015 9:32pm
Alvear999 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/08/09/61935/s1200_20140809_182638.jpg[/img] "Smooth"


"Smooth"
h&m_cycle wrote:
What track is that?
unadilla if im not mistaken
JB 19
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JB 19 5/11/2015 9:38pm
5/11/2015 9:38pm
Not the roughest of all time, but some of you guys act like in America they stop race at the 15 minute mark to bring out the disc.

https://youtu.be/mpIddVYws2g
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Motofinne 5/11/2015 10:10pm
5/11/2015 10:10pm
Well the US guys have said that the MXdN tracks have been incredibly rough these last few years, maybe it's true that the GP tracks are rougher. In fact i will take Ryan Dungeys word and agree with him(he should know), the GP tracks are rougher. RD said in a podcast with Matthes a few months ago that he believes that the US tracks could be a bit rougher.
The Source 5/11/2015 10:15pm
5/11/2015 10:15pm
The GP riders have a rider rep who is in direct contact with the FIM reps and Venue reps and the track conditions are discussed and confirmed, Andrew Mcfarland was a very good rep when he was there, he was all over the tracks and concerned with the conditions and a well respected and well liked fellow in the paddock.
benchracermx 5/11/2015 11:50pm
5/11/2015 11:50pm
The gp tracks are just fine in my opinion..... The guys riding them are some of the best in the world! Iet it separate the men from the boys! I enjoy watching both gps and ama for different reasons...true the gp tracks can be a bit more sketchy and demand more throttle control on some tracks but any one who says the AMA tracks don't get rough are delusional

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DeStouwer
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DeStouwer 5/12/2015 12:03am
5/12/2015 12:03am
The problem in the GP's is that many of the tracks are very one lined. If there are different lines, they all come together in the next turn. This is not the case in the US, where there's many choice in lines, what helps overtaking and racing in general.

Last weekend in Spain there were 5 classes racing. That meant +10 sessions on both Saturday and Sunday. Count in the sun that was vaporising the overwatered track, so things get sketchy.

Last years in Matterley Basin they had the MX-festival with EMX65, EMX85, EMX125, EMX150, EMX250, EMX300, WMX, VMX, MX2 and MXGP, but racing started on Wednesday. I'm an absolute fan of the EMX-format, but I think two classes apart from MXGP and MX2 is enough for the weekend.
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philG 5/12/2015 12:10am
5/12/2015 12:10am
Last year in Kegums wwe walked the track after racing at the MXoN and I thought it was in surprisingly good condition, Teuschental was rough , Lommel was just normal Lommel.

The kicker that did for Searle and Desalle was easy to miss, they just chose not too. Lots of other riders saw it and adjusted , that's what line choice is all about.

That Unadilla pic isn't rough, its just rutted from being dug too deep and over watered.
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hillbilly 5/12/2015 5:15am
5/12/2015 5:15am
gjbruny wrote:
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the...
As of late many people have been saying that the US tracks are too groomed and not rough enough. On sunday right after Searle crashed, the guys were saying that Desalle would probably be the first to complain about the track conditions if he made it to the podium. They took it a step further and said that the deteriorating track conditions are making it too dangerous and it is a problem that the GPs are facing and that steps need to be taken to clean up the tracks prior to the first and second motos.

go to somewhere within 5 minutes after Searle's crash in moto 2 to catch what they said. i'm really surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

so which is it? are tracks too groomed or too rough?
I heard that to and wondered how old those guys are.

That is what makes it look slow,because a ruff track slows you down.simple.
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hillbilly 5/12/2015 5:21am
5/12/2015 5:21am
Alvear999 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/08/09/61935/s1200_20140809_182638.jpg[/img] "Smooth"


"Smooth"
h&m_cycle wrote:
What track is that?
Alvear999 wrote:
unadilla if im not mistaken
It ruts up like that from plowing the track deep. The cure would be to roll it in with a track loader or such,not sure what difference it would make, no ruts may make it a little faster for everyone but I see lines there that would let you open a 450 wide without risk of it stepping out.

Ruts hold your bike straight,always liked rutted jumps ,no spinning out up the face and getting composted on the landing.
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Flip109 5/12/2015 5:26am
5/12/2015 5:26am
Imo It's not "rougher" per say than our national tracks. Just a lot more technical and dangerous when you are trying to push. 2 day old jump faces, ruts, and bumps that have been watered and dryed repeatedly get hard as a rock and have no give. SO here comes ole whoever pushing the pace after a bad start on this technical bombed out track and it bites their ass. These racing conditions are what make the GP riders style so "technical" They are used to tip toeing around this type of track prep or lack there of.
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Jefro98 5/12/2015 6:02am
5/12/2015 6:02am
hillbilly wrote:
It ruts up like that from plowing the track deep. The cure would be to roll it in with a track loader or such,not sure what...
It ruts up like that from plowing the track deep. The cure would be to roll it in with a track loader or such,not sure what difference it would make, no ruts may make it a little faster for everyone but I see lines there that would let you open a 450 wide without risk of it stepping out.

Ruts hold your bike straight,always liked rutted jumps ,no spinning out up the face and getting composted on the landing.
Agree, that's not rough, it's just ruts.
The MXdN Teutschenthal track was loaded with kickers which bounced the bikes all over the place.
Check the 1st pic, this was in front of the mechanics area. That straight was so beat up it was very hard to keep the bikes in line and on the ground. Metty is actually in the air.
Second pic is Barcia almost crashing cause he bounced sideways over a kicker too.



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Jefro98 5/12/2015 6:06am
5/12/2015 6:06am
Another Teuthschenthal pic I found.
That track just gets gnarly..
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RY4N37 5/12/2015 6:11am
5/12/2015 6:11am
I don't think the riders want the track prep to be the same as in America, they just want the technical areas of the tracks to be looked after slightly better. Like fixing up the jump faces more often, especially when there is as many classes as there has been at the last few rounds

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DC 5/12/2015 6:59am
5/12/2015 6:59am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 7:00am
I have been to a GP this year and all of the nationals last year. They all get rough in their own ways. We prepare the tracks more because we have less time in between, and it's almost a full day on bikes on the track. The GPs get more time on the track, so they do a little less pre-maintenance. But Trentino was no rougher than Glen Helen, and Spain didn't look any rougher than Budds Creek gets. They are just different kinds of rough -- not counting Lommel and Lierop, which are bottomless sand tracks. And the best riders emerge as the leaders... And don't forget Dungey got second in a moto at Latvia and Tomac might have won the last moto had he not crashed twice. No, they didn't win, but they didn't get exactly smoked either. Our tracks are plenty rough, and so are theirs!





Just my two cents.

DC
MX Sports
mikebrownsound 5/12/2015 7:10am
5/12/2015 7:10am
DC wrote:
I have been to a GP this year and all of the nationals last year. They all get rough in their own ways. We prepare the...
I have been to a GP this year and all of the nationals last year. They all get rough in their own ways. We prepare the tracks more because we have less time in between, and it's almost a full day on bikes on the track. The GPs get more time on the track, so they do a little less pre-maintenance. But Trentino was no rougher than Glen Helen, and Spain didn't look any rougher than Budds Creek gets. They are just different kinds of rough -- not counting Lommel and Lierop, which are bottomless sand tracks. And the best riders emerge as the leaders... And don't forget Dungey got second in a moto at Latvia and Tomac might have won the last moto had he not crashed twice. No, they didn't win, but they didn't get exactly smoked either. Our tracks are plenty rough, and so are theirs!





Just my two cents.

DC
MX Sports
Amen to that. But according to plenty of experts here, USA is struggling because RV with 1 year of did not come out and smoke AC and the rest. It would be the same here, AC would not come over here and crush the field in his first season, there is no one who made that transition and went on to be a champion in their first season. And especially not after taking a year of from racing any kind of outdoors. But anyway i like your points they are realistic.

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