GP Observation

bns99121
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Edited Date/Time 4/22/2014 8:27am
I don't understand why more top Americans don't race the GPs. After watching a few hours today on cbs I can see why riders stay in Europe. They are racing in beautiful countries with amazing scenery at the tracks.

Also the whole series seems more professional and closer to car racing/ moto GP environment. Although the American broadcasts are much better. It seems like a perfect opportunity to make good money and travel the world while riding a dirt bike. Anyway just a quick observation that I am sure has been made before.
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2thefront
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4/20/2014 10:35pm
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
hartebreak
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4/20/2014 10:39pm
How many riders would have to switch to GPs for it to become the premier series? I mean, let's say Stew, Barcia, Roczen, and Tickle went overseas. Would that be enough of a bump to start others to head over? On the flip side, how many too riders could the AMA afford to lose before it finds itself diluted?
jemcee
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4/20/2014 10:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2014 11:11pm
I don't think the Americans wanna leave their home and comfort zone can't really blame them.. plus I'm assuming most aren't really aware of how good it would be and they are told their whole career that the US is the be all and end all
I saw an interview with Justin Hill and he said he would never think about signing to race the GP's I can't imagine being that closed minded (I'm not criticizing him, it's just not the way I wanna live)

But I couldn't agree with the OP more! I think it would be amazing and as big of a fan of RC as I am I can't really imagine racing the same tracks against the same dudes for 10 years... If I was a single 5-10 place kinda guy I'd definitely be talking to my agent about racing the GP's.. I still think they'd be in the 5-10 range but they'd be living way more..

but this is all like, my opinion man
Mr. G
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4/20/2014 11:18pm
I really like the GP's. Great scenery as said and so much history there. The only thing I don't like is how the races are shot and called. Makes them hard to follow. Maybe after I learn the names better it will be easier.

The Shop

JB479
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4/20/2014 11:25pm
jemcee wrote:
I don't think the Americans wanna leave their home and comfort zone can't really blame them.. plus I'm assuming most aren't really aware of how good...
I don't think the Americans wanna leave their home and comfort zone can't really blame them.. plus I'm assuming most aren't really aware of how good it would be and they are told their whole career that the US is the be all and end all
I saw an interview with Justin Hill and he said he would never think about signing to race the GP's I can't imagine being that closed minded (I'm not criticizing him, it's just not the way I wanna live)

But I couldn't agree with the OP more! I think it would be amazing and as big of a fan of RC as I am I can't really imagine racing the same tracks against the same dudes for 10 years... If I was a single 5-10 place kinda guy I'd definitely be talking to my agent about racing the GP's.. I still think they'd be in the 5-10 range but they'd be living way more..

but this is all like, my opinion man
Spot on!

Just like Aussies, It would take a long time for Americans to adjust i believe.

As Australia's Luke styke (mx2 rider) said. You would have to adjust to everything, not just different riders and tracks. The Weather,the amount of travelling,Food, communication.

Styke is a lot faster than what he shown so far, still recovering from a lung infection.

Todd waters has been a surprised, he has adjusted to the lifestyle quite well, being 7th in points as a rookie….

I really Enjoy watching the GP's at the moment more than SX, maybe because their are no aussies left in it!

Also the tracks are unreal, the one in bulgaria was just unreal those hills…. I do believe the racing is closer to be honest.

This year you have quite a few that can win..
crusty_xx
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4/21/2014 1:02am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2014 1:03am
2thefront wrote:
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
do you really think IF the GP riders were much faster (atm its pretty even imo), that many AMA riders would make the step over just to compete with better/the best riders?
rebus
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4/21/2014 1:38am
2thefront wrote:
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
41NDT
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4/21/2014 1:54am
Ego' shave a lot it do with it as well.
I mean Cairolli isn't proving anything anymore except he's beating the same guys he's been beating the last 5 yrs.
As long as we have 2 top tier MX series I'm fine with that
4/21/2014 2:01am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2014 2:03am
Why leave your series when you are comfortable with the people you are around and feel you have allot to compete for? That counts for both side of the pond. We all know why Cairoli ain't going overseas, he has 0 reason to do it. Financial wise there is nothing to gain for him.
mmcmx
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4/21/2014 2:03am
What about a real off season and racing twice a month? I'd appreciate that too as a pro rider.
JVT357
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4/21/2014 7:53am
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
Just curious, how did the euoros do against the americans at budds creek and thunder valley? Of course the euros are gonna be better at tracks they know. How many titles do americans have?
Anyways, it doesnt really matter. Its beating a dead horse. Until they all race against each other in a acual series we will never know. But thats not gonna happen. Americans have great riders and so does the GP's. Lets just enjoy watching the riders do what they do and not always get in a pissing match about who is better/faster. They are all bad dudes on dirt bikes.
pilotdude
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4/21/2014 8:01am
2thefront wrote:
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
jamma10
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4/21/2014 8:40am
2thefront wrote:
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
pilotdude wrote:
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs. 2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11? Oh...
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
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Titan1
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4/21/2014 8:59am
I would LOVE it if the GPs really were the motoGP equivalent that Youthstream is disingenuously trying to market them as (with the MXGP nonsense)...and that they were THE destination for the top riders in the world...that they had the most money, the most prestige, the best funded teams, the outside sponsors, the most exotic tracks, the most publicity, the coolest trickest bikes (they have this now), etc...but they aren't, and they never will be so long as they are forced to compete with supercross.

REALLY, supercross is THE destination for the top riders in the world, it offers the most money, most prestige, most publicity, etc. Feld should start calling it SXGP, toss out the production rule, and race a round mexico in addition to the one in Canada and start marketing it as a true world championship (not this lame Monster Energy AMA supercross...oh, and its also an FIM world championship, too...sorry that's confusing and we don't get it either, but just deal with it...garbage). Supercross is the closest dirt bike racing gets to motoGP...not the GP's.

Why doesn't Feld and Youthstream work together so that its possible to race supercross AND the GPs (schedule wise)...get youthstream to pay their riders (lure the top Americans with MONEY-more money than they can make at the nationals-lots more...it would be money well spent...as the GP's will never be what motoGP is without the top Americans) and turn the AMA nationals into a feeder series for the GP's??? That would be sweet!

The best in the world race Supercross all winter...then they ALL go race the GP's all summer (the riders that can't get a ride for the GP's, would pay their dues in their respective national championship series hoping to earn a ride for the GP's). That would be sweet! And I think that is what Luongo is trying for...
rebus
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4/21/2014 9:58am
2thefront wrote:
Americans at the top of Moto wanna race the best and the AMA series is the best. I think it's as simple as that.
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
pilotdude wrote:
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs. 2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11? Oh...
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
This is 2014, pilotdude, not 2006.

Why are you clinging on to the past?

Oh, I see.
pilotdude
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4/21/2014 10:00am
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
pilotdude wrote:
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs. 2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11? Oh...
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
rebus wrote:
This is 2014, pilotdude, not 2006.

Why are you clinging on to the past?

Oh, I see.
2006, 2008, 2011. And if you think Villopoto wouldn't have handed everyone-including Cairoli-their asses in Germany you aren't thinking at at. But...

Oh, I see.
pilotdude
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4/21/2014 10:03am
rebus wrote:
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying...
I guess that's why your top riders had their asses handed to them in the last two MXoN. Only in America will you find Americans saying that their motocross class is the best when they clearly lost on two GP circuits.
pilotdude wrote:
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs. 2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11? Oh...
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
jamma10 wrote:
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3 individual class championships. All 3 in Europe. 4 if you want to include the smackdown at Budds Creek.
jamma10
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4/21/2014 10:04am
Pilotdude, your slavering, sweaty Man-Crush is exceptional... Smile
pilotdude
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4/21/2014 10:04am
jamma10 wrote:
Pilotdude, your slavering, sweaty Man-Crush is exceptional... Smile
Thanks man!
IceMan446
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4/21/2014 10:08am
rebus wrote:
This is 2014, pilotdude, not 2006.

Why are you clinging on to the past?

Oh, I see.
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race.

Who has won the most times. And how many times has the raced been held on American soil???

Rest my case.
jamma10
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4/21/2014 10:15am
IceMan446 wrote:
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race. Who has won the most times. And how many times has...
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race.

Who has won the most times. And how many times has the raced been held on American soil???

Rest my case.
It ain't necessarily because your series is better though...
rebus
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4/21/2014 10:26am
pilotdude wrote:
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs. 2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11? Oh...
1. I wasn't aware that Villopoto was present at the last 2 MXdNs.

2. How did Villopoto fare in England 06, England 08, France '11?

Oh, I see.
rebus wrote:
This is 2014, pilotdude, not 2006.

Why are you clinging on to the past?

Oh, I see.
pilotdude wrote:
2006, 2008, 2011. And if you think Villopoto wouldn't have handed everyone-including Cairoli-their asses in Germany you aren't thinking at at. But...

Oh, I see.
I see. So now you simply give out wins to Villopoto without him even showing up?

I see, alright.

I see just how much you have to cling to the idea that your favorite rider can't be beat.
Spartacus
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4/21/2014 10:30am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2014 10:31am
The MXDN, while used by us Merican fanboys to confirm [to ourselves] that we're the besets in the whole world, is nothing like spending months over-seas racing the GP's. A one day race is just that and by no means a test of greatness like a full season of GP's would be. By in large I doubt many of todays racers have the guts to put up with the Euro food/culture while traveling country to country.

The rest of the world is pretty damm different than the old US of A and we Mericans just aren't use to or comfortable with the multi cultural world of GP's.

The races here are only the "top" because everyone stays here both for the reasons above and the fact the companies want them here selling their shit.

Personally I'd like to see the best here step up and race around the world before they claim to be or are called "the best in the world".
rebus
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4/21/2014 10:31am
rebus wrote:
This is 2014, pilotdude, not 2006.

Why are you clinging on to the past?

Oh, I see.
IceMan446 wrote:
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race. Who has won the most times. And how many times has...
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race.

Who has won the most times. And how many times has the raced been held on American soil???

Rest my case.
There's no need to look at the series as a whole. What happened years ago is not relevant to today's riders. That would be much like saying, "look how many times times RC beat Reed." That was then, this is now and RC wouldn't beat Reed right now so your point is moot.

Cairoli and Herlings have come into their own in the last couple of seasons and not surprisingly, your guys have had nothing for them. In 2012, your National Champion was lapped and after that all that was said was that it was a specialized sand track (seems like a fast rider should know how to ride fast in sand...) and then in 2013 there was another ass whooping of epic proportions just to silence the critics. But you're still going on about things and making no sense just to avoid admitting what the rest of the world clearly sees.
TriRacer27
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4/21/2014 10:32am
Here is my "observation" about the GPs:

I think in about 5-10 years, European riders will, on average, be faster than the Americans. The US series may still be the most prestigious, but not the fastest when they meet and here is a big reason why:

This is what we try to make all of our tracks look like:



This is where our top racers train and test:



Meanwhile the Euros still ride actual motocross tracks that aren't groomed to perfection between motos. Have you seen where these guys train? Stefan Everts used to train in a quarry. They train and race on less than perfect tracks and when we show up we can't even figure out how to set our bikes up because we aren't used to feeling bumps.

Just my opinion but can't argue that when we meet up at rough tracks the yanks get spanked. The US will always be the favorite to win the team event because other countries are not big enough to consistently put together a top team of 3 year after year after year, but we won't be the fastest for long.

But hey, at least our tracks look pretty on TV.
4/21/2014 10:36am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2014 10:39am
Mr. G wrote:
I really like the GP's. Great scenery as said and so much history there. The only thing I don't like is how the races are shot...
I really like the GP's. Great scenery as said and so much history there. The only thing I don't like is how the races are shot and called. Makes them hard to follow. Maybe after I learn the names better it will be easier.
What exactly do you mean when you say you don't like the way they're shot and called? I personally think the coverage is great, Paul Malin knows his stuff and always has lots of extra bits to say about the riders and their health, training, injuries etc and Adam Wheeler is also a good addition to the booth not to mention they also often have riders and team managers in there as well.

I don't see any difference between the quality of the coverage of the GPs vs AMA nationals. If you're watching a free live stream then maybe you're hearing the Eurosport commentary done by Jack Burnicle which most likely isn't as good.
FreshTopEnd
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4/21/2014 10:40am
No US tracks were groomed to perfection between motos in the past few years, and they have cleaned up sections at GP tracks where it's called for. It is a fair observation that the GP tracks get more riders on them over the course of the weekend, especially if it's an EMX round.

On US riders not adapting to Europe, IMO that gets overstated. Draw on road racing, or it's ancient history, Roberts, Spencer, Lawson, Schwantz, Rainey were fine running the GP circuit, and at a time when it was more of a pain than it is now. The key is what sort of support the rider is getting. I think with the support a rider like RV, Dungey, Stewart would get, they'd be just fine. But if your gauge is the DeCotis, Lieb level of rider (no disrespect intended, just recent examples), those guys at that level are going to have a tougher row to hoe, no doubt about it. The resources just aren't going to be there for them.
jamma10
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4/21/2014 10:41am
While watching the second MX1 race in Bulgaria yesterday I did actually wonder how RV would have faired on such a rutted and trecherous surface.

When was the last time he raced in conditions close to that?
Titan1
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4/21/2014 10:43am
IceMan446 wrote:
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race. Who has won the most times. And how many times has...
Look at the MXoNs as a whole. From the first race to last years race.

Who has won the most times. And how many times has the raced been held on American soil???

Rest my case.
jamma10 wrote:
It ain't necessarily because your series is better though...
You can't compare the AMA Series to the GP's, using the MXdN...and only using the 3 American riders there. You can do that if you want a solid country to country comparison...but to compare the two series, you have to compare all the AMA based riders (Roczen, Reed, etc.) in addition to the three Americans...then compare the results. And even then its not perfect because there are way less AMA riders in the race.

I remember one year a few years ago, that 6 or 7 of the 9 riders on the top three teams were racing in America...That speaks (well, spoke) to the depth of the AMA series...especially since there were far fewer AMA riders in the race compared to GP Riders.

I'm not sure how that would look on last years podium (or the year before that)...but obviously the gap is closing.
rebus
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4/21/2014 10:43am
jamma10 wrote:
While watching the second MX1 race in Bulgaria yesterday I did actually wonder how RV would have faired on such a rutted and trecherous surface. When...
While watching the second MX1 race in Bulgaria yesterday I did actually wonder how RV would have faired on such a rutted and trecherous surface.

When was the last time he raced in conditions close to that?
RV would win some, no doubt. But I doubt he would consistently beat AC on those types of tracks. Of course, until he decides to show up and race we will never know. Well, except for pilotdude, he knows. Grinning

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