GOAT Busters............

bigborefan
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Edited Date/Time 8/28/2014 5:31pm
The GOAT.

Everyone always debates this one, but it's easy. RC4 is the GOAT.

Feel free to call me out if I am wrong but he did the following:

3 - 125 MX Championships
7 - 250/450 MX Championships

That's a decade of dominance right there.

5 250/450 Supercross Championships

2 perfect seasons in MX

Never lost a title he defended.

Seldom missed races due to injury.


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MxKing809
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8/27/2014 2:52pm
I agree, but when since the RV2 and TC41 championship on 250f has RV lost a title he competed in?
mx836
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8/27/2014 3:10pm
2009 and 2010 Supercross. 2009 outdoors. RV fan or don't really pay attention?
mx836
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8/27/2014 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2014 3:15pm
You could also count rookie supercross season, but that would be silly since both lost and it's never expected for a rookie to win. We can compare seasons missed with injury also. RV missed '10, '12, and '14 outdoors. RC missed supercross in '04.

The Shop

tiddlermx23
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8/27/2014 3:32pm
Im a fan of both but Villopoto nor anyone else can hold a candle to RCs records and stats.
Crush
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8/27/2014 3:53pm
Someone said a while back that RV is basically RC with injuries.

I'm pretty happy with that.
Flatliner
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8/27/2014 3:57pm
Crush wrote:
Someone said a while back that RV is basically RC with injuries.

I'm pretty happy with that.
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a 40th place start in south wick.

He won , I get that but he had very very favorable circumstances to do so.
MxKing809
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8/27/2014 4:09pm
mx836 wrote:
2009 and 2010 Supercross. 2009 outdoors. RV fan or don't really pay attention?
Just a bad memory. Couldn't think of an example of him getting beat straight up like Dungey this year is all.
86honda
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8/27/2014 4:52pm


Obama is his name Motocross was his game
defeatist45
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8/27/2014 5:57pm
86honda wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/08/27/63672/s1200_image.jpg[/img] Obama is his name Motocross was his game


Obama is his name Motocross was his game
lol. only in the southeast
C.Worthy
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8/27/2014 6:45pm
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the BEST at both disciplines, motocross and supercross. It's undeniable that Jeremy Mcgrath outshines anyones accomplishments in SX while RC outshines anyones accomplishments in MX.

Yea he was the greatest motocross rider of all time. Not supercross. Jeremy Mcgrath is, his championships and race wins speak for themselves. Of course this is holding all things constant and not comparing the context of the competition or race technology of each racers time.
stewie94
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8/27/2014 6:55pm
Crush wrote:
Someone said a while back that RV is basically RC with injuries.

I'm pretty happy with that.
that is sooo bullshit... im sick of people comparing RV to RC , its like with the kobe & lebron comparisons to jordan! RV is not like RC , villy is a special unique one of a kind rider in his own way , IN HIS OWN WAY!!
Crush
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8/27/2014 7:10pm
Well, I'd say Kobe and Michael are pretty fucking similar. Have you seen these?

https://youtu.be/v27Hk5OIe-k
https://youtu.be/yry0e6ShJwc
https://youtu.be/JnB9bvud6IU

You wanna compare RV and Everts, that's Michael and Lebron.

But I'm just talking results and riding style. Take away RV's injuries and he ha a lot of statistics that say he'd have probably won the titles he missed.
Crush
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8/27/2014 7:13pm
Flatliner wrote:
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a...
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a 40th place start in south wick.

He won , I get that but he had very very favorable circumstances to do so.
Said it before and I'll say it again, you can't make those assumptions.

If Dungey doesn't DNF texas, then RV rides like a lunatic to make up points, and probably does. Just like Dungey closing on Kenny.

Either way, you can't say he won it just because of that. And if you do, I say Tortelli crashing and running out of fuel at Red Bud is the reason RC won... which we all know is ridiculous.
stewie94
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8/27/2014 7:44pm
Crush wrote:
Well, I'd say Kobe and Michael are pretty fucking similar. Have you seen these? https://youtu.be/v27Hk5OIe-k https://youtu.be/yry0e6ShJwc https://youtu.be/JnB9bvud6IU You wanna compare RV and Everts, that's Michael and...
Well, I'd say Kobe and Michael are pretty fucking similar. Have you seen these?

https://youtu.be/v27Hk5OIe-k
https://youtu.be/yry0e6ShJwc
https://youtu.be/JnB9bvud6IU

You wanna compare RV and Everts, that's Michael and Lebron.

But I'm just talking results and riding style. Take away RV's injuries and he ha a lot of statistics that say he'd have probably won the titles he missed.
i dont believe that he wouldve won in 2010 , dungey had enough of a points gap if i can remember correctly where if he wouldve won another round dungey would have it in the bag & st louis in 2010 was i believe either rd 13 or 14 , but 2010 mx , 2012 mx , yea couldve won, maybe. although i would say 2012 mx title had reed's name on it if he stayed healthy in the sx season cause he was giving villy all he can he handle right before that crash , even villy said it on the interview that reed was on it , so yea who knows but imo its not a guaranteed villy title but still is imo a heavy pick to win the title but not guaranteed
enketchum
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8/27/2014 7:55pm
Jeremy McGrath:

7 American Supercross Championships.

Enough said
Flatliner
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8/27/2014 8:20pm
Flatliner wrote:
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a...
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a 40th place start in south wick.

He won , I get that but he had very very favorable circumstances to do so.
Crush wrote:
Said it before and I'll say it again, you can't make those assumptions. If Dungey doesn't DNF texas, then RV rides like a lunatic to make...
Said it before and I'll say it again, you can't make those assumptions.

If Dungey doesn't DNF texas, then RV rides like a lunatic to make up points, and probably does. Just like Dungey closing on Kenny.

Either way, you can't say he won it just because of that. And if you do, I say Tortelli crashing and running out of fuel at Red Bud is the reason RC won... which we all know is ridiculous.
Rv wasn't 2013 rv. Dungey and reed both often had him covered. A full moto dnf and a 40th place start?? That's a huge hole to deal with, through no fault of his either.

Dungey wasn't going to wear down like ken did. He's in my opinion the fittest guy, and the best in the heat that the AMA series has. Fittest I suppose is relative but in the heat he's the man.

The gates dropped , and in the end rv has the #1 plate, but he also benefitted from mechanicals that cost dungey a minimum of one full moto.
Crush
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8/27/2014 8:42pm
2013 RV started at Unadilla 2011 when he got the 2012 bike. From then on he's been hard to beat.

Besides it doesn't matter, if James didn't take out Reedy at Houston in 11 SX, he woulda won that... And if Chad didn't crash at Millville he woulda won that series easy. And Same with Dallas in 2012.

So there.
TDeath21
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8/27/2014 8:52pm
C.Worthy wrote:
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the...
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the BEST at both disciplines, motocross and supercross. It's undeniable that Jeremy Mcgrath outshines anyones accomplishments in SX while RC outshines anyones accomplishments in MX.

Yea he was the greatest motocross rider of all time. Not supercross. Jeremy Mcgrath is, his championships and race wins speak for themselves. Of course this is holding all things constant and not comparing the context of the competition or race technology of each racers time.
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time.

Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy.

Greatest in MX is obviously Carmichael.

Greatest combined is also obviously Carmichael. If you have to pick one, there's nobody else you can pick at the moment.
Crush
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8/27/2014 9:00pm
TDeath21 wrote:
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time. Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy. Greatest in MX is...
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time.

Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy.

Greatest in MX is obviously Carmichael.

Greatest combined is also obviously Carmichael. If you have to pick one, there's nobody else you can pick at the moment.
Yeah and to be fair, wouldn't you take the aggregate best overall? That's the meaning of best. That's still RC.

Jeremy is the king of SX and I doubt his SX record will ever be touched. Someone would have to come in like he did and start dominating straight away (due to more than just speed, maybe competition) and not lose focus or crash himself silly or get injured.
bd
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8/27/2014 10:03pm
Crush wrote:
Someone said a while back that RV is basically RC with injuries.

I'm pretty happy with that.
Flatliner wrote:
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a...
Rc never had an outdoor title awarded to him when he wasn't the best guy. Rv, in 2011 can thank dungeys dnf in Texas and a 40th place start in south wick.

He won , I get that but he had very very favorable circumstances to do so.
Got to finish to win titles. RC's health and bike reliability might be his greatest accomplishment. Its mind boggling with all the injuries in the sport.

I'll also add:

(2) Perfect Seasons (24-0 moto; 12-0 o/a)
(1) No Hitter (12-0 o/a)

C.Worthy
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8/27/2014 10:12pm
C.Worthy wrote:
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the...
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the BEST at both disciplines, motocross and supercross. It's undeniable that Jeremy Mcgrath outshines anyones accomplishments in SX while RC outshines anyones accomplishments in MX.

Yea he was the greatest motocross rider of all time. Not supercross. Jeremy Mcgrath is, his championships and race wins speak for themselves. Of course this is holding all things constant and not comparing the context of the competition or race technology of each racers time.
TDeath21 wrote:
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time. Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy. Greatest in MX is...
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time.

Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy.

Greatest in MX is obviously Carmichael.

Greatest combined is also obviously Carmichael. If you have to pick one, there's nobody else you can pick at the moment.
It makes sense. you said it yourself. Mcgrath best in SX. RC best in MX.
We never had a GOAT before RC and we still don't have a GOAT now. Will we ever? Only time will tell...
We don't have to pick anybody because we haven't had a real GOAT yet. The sport is still young.

TDeath21
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8/27/2014 10:15pm
C.Worthy wrote:
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the...
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the BEST at both disciplines, motocross and supercross. It's undeniable that Jeremy Mcgrath outshines anyones accomplishments in SX while RC outshines anyones accomplishments in MX.

Yea he was the greatest motocross rider of all time. Not supercross. Jeremy Mcgrath is, his championships and race wins speak for themselves. Of course this is holding all things constant and not comparing the context of the competition or race technology of each racers time.
TDeath21 wrote:
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time. Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy. Greatest in MX is...
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time.

Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy.

Greatest in MX is obviously Carmichael.

Greatest combined is also obviously Carmichael. If you have to pick one, there's nobody else you can pick at the moment.
C.Worthy wrote:
It makes sense. you said it yourself. Mcgrath best in SX. RC best in MX. We never had a GOAT before RC and we still don't...
It makes sense. you said it yourself. Mcgrath best in SX. RC best in MX.
We never had a GOAT before RC and we still don't have a GOAT now. Will we ever? Only time will tell...
We don't have to pick anybody because we haven't had a real GOAT yet. The sport is still young.

We clearly do, and his name is Ricky Carmichael. Like I said, when you are picking a greatest of all time, you obviously combine SX and MX, of which Carmichael has 12 championships to McGrath's 8, a much more well rounded championship count, and a higher overall win percentage.
bigborefan
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8/27/2014 10:19pm
RC is an elite athlete, no matter who you compare him against.
C.Worthy
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8/27/2014 11:22pm
TDeath21 wrote:
We clearly do, and his name is Ricky Carmichael. Like I said, when you are picking a greatest of all time, you obviously combine SX and...
We clearly do, and his name is Ricky Carmichael. Like I said, when you are picking a greatest of all time, you obviously combine SX and MX, of which Carmichael has 12 championships to McGrath's 8, a much more well rounded championship count, and a higher overall win percentage.
But they are two different disciplines. Two different series. At the end of the year you get two different championships, not combined.
If RC had 11 MX championships and 1 SX which still = 12 would that still make him the GOATt to MC's 7 Sx championships and 1 MX championship? In my opinion I don't think so. Combining them doesn't tell the whole story.
No matter how you put it nobody has ever been better than MC at SX. He has the numbers to prove it. In order to get the title the GOAT shouldn't you have to better than anybody that ever lived at BOTH disciplines? It's a pretty steep title and I think RC is as close as it gets to earning it but he didn't dominate SX like MC did.
IceMan446
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8/27/2014 11:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2014 11:36pm
C.Worthy wrote:
But they are two different disciplines. Two different series. At the end of the year you get two different championships, not combined. If RC had 11...
But they are two different disciplines. Two different series. At the end of the year you get two different championships, not combined.
If RC had 11 MX championships and 1 SX which still = 12 would that still make him the GOATt to MC's 7 Sx championships and 1 MX championship? In my opinion I don't think so. Combining them doesn't tell the whole story.
No matter how you put it nobody has ever been better than MC at SX. He has the numbers to prove it. In order to get the title the GOAT shouldn't you have to better than anybody that ever lived at BOTH disciplines? It's a pretty steep title and I think RC is as close as it gets to earning it but he didn't dominate SX like MC did.
I agree completely.

I have got flamed for this same way of thinking before and no one else gets it. Well maybe Matthes.

I think to be the true GOAT. you have to have the most championships in each series. Simple as that.

Just like saying a world champion is the best rider in the world, but how is that possible if they don't race on American soil?

Not taking anything away from RC's accomplishments by any means.

I do think RC is the best MX racer to ever live. I don't think we will see the same caliber rider in MX as RC was nor will we ever see anyone match MC in SX.

I do think we have been lucky to have two of the best ever in the same generation.
GuyB
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8/28/2014 12:14am
So what do you guys get if you win the argument here?
Whitey
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8/28/2014 12:35am
C.Worthy wrote:
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the...
I've always looked at it like this. To be the greatest of ALL time. Meaning no one was better than you, you'd have to be the BEST at both disciplines, motocross and supercross. It's undeniable that Jeremy Mcgrath outshines anyones accomplishments in SX while RC outshines anyones accomplishments in MX.

Yea he was the greatest motocross rider of all time. Not supercross. Jeremy Mcgrath is, his championships and race wins speak for themselves. Of course this is holding all things constant and not comparing the context of the competition or race technology of each racers time.
TDeath21 wrote:
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time. Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy. Greatest in MX is...
That doesn't make sense. By this logic, nobody can be considered the greatest of all time.

Greatest in SX is obviously Jeremy.

Greatest in MX is obviously Carmichael.

Greatest combined is also obviously Carmichael. If you have to pick one, there's nobody else you can pick at the moment.
Why does there have to be a GOAT at all?

It is so subjective, and not just in MX, in every sport, that it is stupid.

Yeah I guess it is good to bullshit about with your mates over a few beers at the pub but nobody has every won the "Goat" trophy have they? No because it doesn't exist it is all pure speculation.

C.Worthy
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8/28/2014 1:03am
GuyB wrote:
So what do you guys get if you win the argument here?
Argument? More like comparing each others opinions. I like to hear the other sides opinion as long as it doesn't get out of hand. There's no win or lose in this one.
bama205
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8/28/2014 6:58am
GuyB wrote:
So what do you guys get if you win the argument here?
C.Worthy wrote:
Argument? More like comparing each others opinions. I like to hear the other sides opinion as long as it doesn't get out of hand. There's no...
Argument? More like comparing each others opinions. I like to hear the other sides opinion as long as it doesn't get out of hand. There's no win or lose in this one.
Looking like a dipstick on a national mx forum in my opinion, is losing.

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