Full Tilt CR250 Build - MXA Two Stroke Hall of Fame

ML512
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ML512 12/23/2015 4:38pm
12/23/2015 4:38pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
ah.. damn. thats what i have, an kxf akit shock.
That explains it! There's a few A-Kit shows shocks they work on, but that is definitely not one of them.
Harry Backmon 12/23/2015 4:39pm
12/23/2015 4:39pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I am finally getting around to the final assembly of this project after a lot of research, collecting parts and a fair amount of machine work...
I am finally getting around to the final assembly of this project after a lot of research, collecting parts and a fair amount of machine work and mods. The last generation of Honda two strokes are my favorite bikes of all time so I decided to pull out all the stops and build the best CR I could with the latest tech and trick parts available (within reason)

I really wanted to think outside of the box and make mods to the bike that make it a better machine, not just bolt on a bunch of bling that does nothing to make the bike better. I did have a few pet peeves with the CR250 that I could fix and I wanted to address them as well.

Originally I just had a few simple requirements on my wish list:

1. Lots of horsepower
2. As lightweight as possible
3. No air forks
4. Reliable

Then my OCD took over and I ended up with quite a bit more of an exotic build than I had originally planned but I think it's turning out great so far. I will post more updates, details and pics over the next few weeks.

Frame prepped and ready for final assembly.



All of the brackets have been removed from left frame spar and all of the electrical components will be relocated towards the center of the bike and in the airbox.



I removed the coil brackets from the down tube of the frame and moved it near the rear shock tower. Anyone that has done a top-end on a 2002-2007 CR will know why. The location of the coil is a total pain in the ass when pulling the cylinder and this mod makes it much easier. The bonus is that the weight is moved to the center of the bike and that is never a bad thing.





I added a return spring to the rear master cylinder eliminating the need for the tab on the frame or the OEM spring. Added a billet brake clevis and Ti hardware to finish it up.





Because the ignition box will be relocated to the center of the bike I was able to utilize the old mount on the head tube to fabricate a mount for a Honda HPSD steering damper.



Dude...
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 4:56pm
12/23/2015 4:56pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Good call on the adjuster and steering damper, They're not heavy but those little things add up. The stock Honda triple clamps aren't light, those X-trig...
Good call on the adjuster and steering damper, They're not heavy but those little things add up. The stock Honda triple clamps aren't light, those X-trig ones are probably close to a pound lighter if they're as light as the two aftermarket billet sets I've weighed. They look fairly sleak and minimalistic.

Use Bikemaster non-HD tubes, they're very light at close to 1lb each. Some guys have even begun using mountain bike tubes (26" for fat tire bikes), which seem to be working okay and they as a pair weigh close to a pound lighter than the lightest motorcycle tubes.
Motion Pro Liteloc rim locks, Motion Pro rim strips, Pirelli MXMS tires (110/85-19 rear is super light, and lets you go down 1 tooth on the rear sprocket). Stock Honda wheels will be lighter than anything aftermarket, get the hubs lathed and polished or anodized. Talon rear sprocket, Sunline MXMR chain, OEM front sprocket, CRFstuff rotors, and you will have the lightest wheel set possible.

OEM Honda plastic is lighter than anything aftmarket too, with the exception of the Cycra stadium front number plate and vented front fender. If you insist on a graphics kit get it printed on 4mm vinyl.

It will be possible to get that bike under 200lbs but you will have to be very careful of parts selection and not adding anything extra on that isn't absolutely neccessary like disc/caliper guards, twinwall bars, etc. Air forks would make things a lot easier for you, KYB sells the PSF1 works forks which are what most of the factory racers seem to be currently using. Go over the bike with a fine tooth comb and remove anything that doesn't have to be on there. Many little things add up. Use aluminum hardware where possible, it's lighter than titanium.

The new NEXT unbreakable clutch perch assembly and front brake lever are the lightest on the market, too, if you plan to go non-OEM.

I assume that you already know a lot of this stuff but just sharing what I've found with my own lightweight CR250.
Sounds like a fun project, can't wait to see the finished product!
I am actually going to use some of the parts you mentioned in your post and I am a big fan of the OEM Honda hubs as well. For this project I decided on a custom set of billet hubs that started life as a set of TCR hubs but we did some additional machine and detail work and ended up saving about 1/4 of a pound over the stock hubs (for the pair)

The hubs have thread inserts installed as well to eliminate the need for the annoying brake hardware nuts that Hondas require. The bolts just thread into the hubs now like a Yamaha.

All of the tabs for the useless plastic guards were machined off the rear caliper mount and it was finished and hard anodized for better wear resistance too.









1
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 4:59pm
12/23/2015 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2015 5:00pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I may be changing the adjuster out to standard preload rings. The airbox clearance under full compression is too close for comfort because of the odd...
I may be changing the adjuster out to standard preload rings. The airbox clearance under full compression is too close for comfort because of the odd angle the adjuster sits at. Looks like the X-Trig may be going on eBay.
JBernard_401 wrote:
I've got the showa 'speed ring' style preload rings on my shock and they look so much nicer than the '2 nut' version out of stamped...
I've got the showa 'speed ring' style preload rings on my shock and they look so much nicer than the '2 nut' version out of stamped steel. i dont know if they make one for the kyb shock body, but its worth checking into.
Yea I have to look at what my options are on that. Send me a pic of the one you have if you can, I wouldn't mind seeing what it looks like.

The Shop

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MxKing809
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MxKing809 12/23/2015 5:15pm
12/23/2015 5:15pm
I just picked up a 2003 CR250...... what's the story on this ECU? How much do they cost and would it work on a basically stock motor?
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 5:25pm
12/23/2015 5:25pm
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it with a different map for that setup. Depending on how labor intensive the programming becomes it will retail for somewhere between $400-$450

MxKing809
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MxKing809 12/23/2015 5:44pm
12/23/2015 5:44pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it...
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it with a different map for that setup. Depending on how labor intensive the programming becomes it will retail for somewhere between $400-$450

Very interested in that. I'll be in touch down the road
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 12/23/2015 5:47pm
12/23/2015 5:47pm
blackdiamond wrote:
Yea I have to look at what my options are on that. Send me a pic of the one you have if you can, I wouldn't...
Yea I have to look at what my options are on that. Send me a pic of the one you have if you can, I wouldn't mind seeing what it looks like.


its a really cool design, the top ring has small knuckles in the bottom side that fit into female slots that the bottom threaded ring has, so when you turn it will rotate till it gets to the next divet then lock into place.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 5:55pm
12/23/2015 5:55pm
That is a sick design, super clean. I am not sure anyone makes one of those that is sold separately for KYB shocks though?
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 12/23/2015 6:20pm
12/23/2015 6:20pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I am actually going to use some of the parts you mentioned in your post and I am a big fan of the OEM Honda hubs...
I am actually going to use some of the parts you mentioned in your post and I am a big fan of the OEM Honda hubs as well. For this project I decided on a custom set of billet hubs that started life as a set of TCR hubs but we did some additional machine and detail work and ended up saving about 1/4 of a pound over the stock hubs (for the pair)

The hubs have thread inserts installed as well to eliminate the need for the annoying brake hardware nuts that Hondas require. The bolts just thread into the hubs now like a Yamaha.

All of the tabs for the useless plastic guards were machined off the rear caliper mount and it was finished and hard anodized for better wear resistance too.









32-spoke as well I see, perfect! The details on your project look incredible, nice work.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 12/23/2015 6:28pm
12/23/2015 6:28pm
blackdiamond wrote:
That is a sick design, super clean. I am not sure anyone makes one of those that is sold separately for KYB shocks though?
yep its awesome. they are hard to find as well for some reason. i think it may be considered a 'factory' part and hard to get. but i believe you are right, i think this is straight made by showa, so makes sense it only fits their shock bodies and thread pitches unfortunately.

i really dig those hubs. did you send them back to troy for anodizing? i love that color. interesting finish, did you hit it with some light glass bead first? almost looks matte.
mattman631
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mattman631 12/23/2015 6:33pm
12/23/2015 6:33pm
Blackdiamond, where did you get all of your bolts and hardware? Did you piece it all together from various sites? I know you mentioned Race Tech but they do not specifically name a CR250 on the site so I was curious. Cant wait for the final product this bike is sick!
imoto34
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imoto34 12/23/2015 6:35pm
12/23/2015 6:35pm
I just want to say wow and thanks for sharing with Vital. That is a dream machine! Have fun
Bearuno
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Bearuno 12/23/2015 7:04pm
12/23/2015 7:04pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it...
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it with a different map for that setup. Depending on how labor intensive the programming becomes it will retail for somewhere between $400-$450

If you can provide a CR500 unit, you've probably got a customer in me. I've tried the OEM CR250 set up, not been that impressed (and they are getting rather expensive) and VForce. The 'Z' set up really impresses me, in the various fitment reports I've read on them, when used on other bikes.

I held back on naming the company, as I thought you might be in business with them and didn't want to provide an avenue for people to bypass you in your market - it's refreshing to see someone freely put out the name / contact of a product they are involved with.

I've been after a better ignition for my 500 for many years - for easier starting (I'm on crutches / a walking stick much of the time nowadays) and smoother power, mainly. I've been very interested in the Z, but never followed them up, mainly due to my lack of interest in programming and set up of electronics - I've far too much on my plate with my own suspension work and frame making, and would rather deal with someone who has real knowledge of the product. If I can get a pre-programmed kit, with a variety of setting options, you've got a customer, after the holiday period. I'll contact you probably in February.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/23/2015 7:23pm
12/23/2015 7:23pm
kiwifan wrote:
Wow very cool project, ML512 would love to ride this bike as I am sure MXA would too lol :-)
blackdiamond wrote:
I would be up for that, it would be cool to see some kind of feature on it when its finished. Hopefully that is less than...
I would be up for that, it would be cool to see some kind of feature on it when its finished. Hopefully that is less than 30 days away if I don't run into any major challenges.
Awesome!!!!
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/23/2015 7:29pm
12/23/2015 7:29pm
kiwifan wrote:
Wow very cool project, ML512 would love to ride this bike as I am sure MXA would too lol :-)
blackdiamond wrote:
I would be up for that, it would be cool to see some kind of feature on it when its finished. Hopefully that is less than...
I would be up for that, it would be cool to see some kind of feature on it when its finished. Hopefully that is less than 30 days away if I don't run into any major challenges.
ML512 wrote:
Hit me up if you want to do something! I can at least take pictures of that beautiful beast....

Mlindsay@vitalmx.com
pictures would be awesome, a ride review would be epic!!!!

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Camp332
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Camp332 12/23/2015 7:48pm
12/23/2015 7:48pm
Interesting, and thanks to the OP for the great details noted. The 2003 CR250 is the only bike I wish I kept.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/23/2015 7:58pm
12/23/2015 7:58pm
WOW! This is turning into one epic build. Great job BD! Keep going and I can't wait to hear about some ride reports.

Those tranny parts and suspension??.......sweet baby Jesus those are nice!
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 8:35pm
12/23/2015 8:35pm
blackdiamond wrote:
That is a sick design, super clean. I am not sure anyone makes one of those that is sold separately for KYB shocks though?
JBernard_401 wrote:
yep its awesome. they are hard to find as well for some reason. i think it may be considered a 'factory' part and hard to get...
yep its awesome. they are hard to find as well for some reason. i think it may be considered a 'factory' part and hard to get. but i believe you are right, i think this is straight made by showa, so makes sense it only fits their shock bodies and thread pitches unfortunately.

i really dig those hubs. did you send them back to troy for anodizing? i love that color. interesting finish, did you hit it with some light glass bead first? almost looks matte.
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell, lets try it. I like how they turned out. We did lightly blast them so they would be a matte finish. The last thing I wanted was this bike to turn out like the other 5000 blingmobiles on Instagram so matte was definitely the way to go.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 8:46pm
12/23/2015 8:46pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it...
I am set up as a dealer for the ignitions and the ignition would still work on a stock motor but we would obviously program it with a different map for that setup. Depending on how labor intensive the programming becomes it will retail for somewhere between $400-$450

Bearuno wrote:
If you can provide a CR500 unit, you've probably got a customer in me. I've tried the OEM CR250 set up, not been that impressed (and...
If you can provide a CR500 unit, you've probably got a customer in me. I've tried the OEM CR250 set up, not been that impressed (and they are getting rather expensive) and VForce. The 'Z' set up really impresses me, in the various fitment reports I've read on them, when used on other bikes.

I held back on naming the company, as I thought you might be in business with them and didn't want to provide an avenue for people to bypass you in your market - it's refreshing to see someone freely put out the name / contact of a product they are involved with.

I've been after a better ignition for my 500 for many years - for easier starting (I'm on crutches / a walking stick much of the time nowadays) and smoother power, mainly. I've been very interested in the Z, but never followed them up, mainly due to my lack of interest in programming and set up of electronics - I've far too much on my plate with my own suspension work and frame making, and would rather deal with someone who has real knowledge of the product. If I can get a pre-programmed kit, with a variety of setting options, you've got a customer, after the holiday period. I'll contact you probably in February.
They say that there is one available for the CR500 but I would be willing to bet that they swap the CR250 ignition parts over to make it work? I will check when I get a chance.

On another note, if you are using a walking stick or crutches and you are riding a CR500 you are a true badass! Those bikes are a handful to say the least.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 12/23/2015 8:47pm
12/23/2015 8:47pm
blackdiamond wrote:
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell...
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell, lets try it. I like how they turned out. We did lightly blast them so they would be a matte finish. The last thing I wanted was this bike to turn out like the other 5000 blingmobiles on Instagram so matte was definitely the way to go.
interesting. do you think it'll hold up very long? I know the kashima on my fork tubes flakes off if you breath on it heavy. Stuff hates getting hit by sand and wants to flake unlike normal anodizing.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 9:08pm
12/23/2015 9:08pm
mattman631 wrote:
Blackdiamond, where did you get all of your bolts and hardware? Did you piece it all together from various sites? I know you mentioned Race Tech...
Blackdiamond, where did you get all of your bolts and hardware? Did you piece it all together from various sites? I know you mentioned Race Tech but they do not specifically name a CR250 on the site so I was curious. Cant wait for the final product this bike is sick!
The axles and swingarm pivot are the exact same part as the four strokes. Most of the other bolts are all different lengths because many of the parts are not stock. I just measure them all and get the exact lengths I need. Sometimes I change the type of fastener completely because I feel I have a better way to make it work. The front linkage bolt with the chain roller on it is from Mettec because they are the only ones that still have that bolt to my knowledge. It is a few mm longer on the older smokers. They actually still have parts over there they made for Mike Larocco's bike.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/23/2015 9:29pm
12/23/2015 9:29pm
blackdiamond wrote:
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell...
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell, lets try it. I like how they turned out. We did lightly blast them so they would be a matte finish. The last thing I wanted was this bike to turn out like the other 5000 blingmobiles on Instagram so matte was definitely the way to go.
JBernard_401 wrote:
interesting. do you think it'll hold up very long? I know the kashima on my fork tubes flakes off if you breath on it heavy. Stuff...
interesting. do you think it'll hold up very long? I know the kashima on my fork tubes flakes off if you breath on it heavy. Stuff hates getting hit by sand and wants to flake unlike normal anodizing.
I have seen that as well and I am not sure why because if you look at the stats on paper it should be harder and more durable than Type 3 hard anno? They actually coat pistons with it. It is harder and thicker than Type 3 but that may be the issue. Maybe it is so hard it's brittle and that's why it flakes? I am not exactly sure on that one but I think corrosion may have a part in the flaking as well?
JerseyFresh
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JerseyFresh 12/23/2015 10:44pm
12/23/2015 10:44pm
blackdiamond wrote:
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell...
The hubs are actually Kashima coated. I was sending a whole batch of suspension parts over to Japan for coating so I figured what the hell, lets try it. I like how they turned out. We did lightly blast them so they would be a matte finish. The last thing I wanted was this bike to turn out like the other 5000 blingmobiles on Instagram so matte was definitely the way to go.
The level of trick is getting filthy. Kashima hubs? That is one of the most boss fuckin things I've ever heard. I can't wait to see this Niykee Heaton of a dirt bike.
Bearuno
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Bearuno 12/24/2015 12:22am
12/24/2015 12:22am
blackdiamond wrote:
They say that there is one available for the CR500 but I would be willing to bet that they swap the CR250 ignition parts over to...
They say that there is one available for the CR500 but I would be willing to bet that they swap the CR250 ignition parts over to make it work? I will check when I get a chance.

On another note, if you are using a walking stick or crutches and you are riding a CR500 you are a true badass! Those bikes are a handful to say the least.
The only thing 'bad ass' about me, is the fact that I had my tailbone removed after breaking it....... That does make things difficult / uncomfortable when you are a near full time 'sit down' rider due to leg and back injuries.

I'd not be surprised that the 500 ignition is a variation of a 250 one, without all of the things / settings relating to the RC Valved 250. Though, when you check the part number for the 86 (really hoping it covers 86 through to 2001) it lists it as being the same / near same thing as some Yamaha 2t Twins. The potential for such fine ignition set up with the Z unit, really could smooth things out. I think it would be the Ducks Guts.

If you could do some research on it, I'd very much appreciate it.

CR500 - a lovely, cuddly Teddy Bear of a bike - there's far too much hype and BS out there about them. An incredibly simple, reliable bike, that I've tailored to my needs over many years. Modern components, make it quite wonderful, and I much prefer the steel frame over the Aluminium ones I've had / made. The only problem steel has, is rust.
smezmx
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smezmx 12/24/2015 12:44am
12/24/2015 12:44am
Something similar to this would look trick machined on the shock body maybe?.just a thought.love these awesome builds.

blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 12/24/2015 12:52am
12/24/2015 12:52am
smezmx wrote:
Something similar to this would look trick machined on the shock body maybe?.just a thought.love these awesome builds.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/12/24/116596/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Something similar to this would look trick machined on the shock body maybe?.just a thought.love these awesome builds.

That is amazing detail. Everything Mugen ever put their name on was badass.
dbrunski125 12/24/2015 3:09am
12/24/2015 3:09am
Are you running a titanium rear spring? Ti make bike as light at possible?

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