Fuel injection on the two stroke

Mejan
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Mejan
Edited Date/Time 10/18/2014 8:21am
Where´s the fuel injection on the two stroke?
The boats got it, why not on a bike?
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ando
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ando 9/16/2010 11:38pm
9/16/2010 11:38pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
Because it would put 4-strokes out of business.

DI 2-Strokes in Snowmobiles

Further Teasing
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of:

a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev ceiling and wider operating band;

b) there is no legislation in place for dirtbikes to conform to specific fuel consumption and emission limits.
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 9/16/2010 11:57pm
9/16/2010 11:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 11:57pm
It's not here yet for the same reason it's taken so long for it to arrive on 4 stroke bikes compared to every other form of transport - throttle response. Apparently this is REALLY hard to get a satisfactory working model and satisfactory is not good enough! Bike throttles are much more active and sensitive than everything else. Think about how much you work the throttle when riding and the compare that to what happens on a boat!

That said KTM and TM are for sure working on it ( as are probably all of the Japanese manufacturers - including Honda.)
bmbmoto
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bmbmoto 9/17/2010 12:04am
9/17/2010 12:04am
I was told by a good mate who happens to be a ktm dealer too 2 years ago that ktm where developing fuel injected 2 strokes

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johansen
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johansen 9/17/2010 1:24am
9/17/2010 1:24am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Because it would put 4-strokes out of business.

DI 2-Strokes in Snowmobiles

Further Teasing
ando wrote:
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of: a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev...
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of:

a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev ceiling and wider operating band;

b) there is no legislation in place for dirtbikes to conform to specific fuel consumption and emission limits.
A standard 2-stroke snowmobile revs around 8000 rpm.
ODB
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ODB 9/17/2010 6:09am
9/17/2010 6:09am
km as well as yamaha have been working on a direct injected 2 stroke since 07 for the motogp's and KTM has been testing a 150 with direct injection .I have a snowmobile with semi-direct injection and it has worked flawlessly for 6 years and 13000 miles and the great thing is you never have to re-jet ....throttle response is just as good as a carb
Racer92
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Racer92 9/17/2010 7:18am
9/17/2010 7:18am
My brand new direct injected Mercury Optimax 90 is a bad mofo, sips gas and runs like the wind.
KTMRACER732 9/17/2010 9:07am
9/17/2010 9:07am
I'm pretty sure the prototype husaberg 2 strokes are fuel injected
gotwings
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gotwings 9/17/2010 9:25am
9/17/2010 9:25am
ODB wrote:
km as well as yamaha have been working on a direct injected 2 stroke since 07 for the motogp's and KTM has been testing a 150...
km as well as yamaha have been working on a direct injected 2 stroke since 07 for the motogp's and KTM has been testing a 150 with direct injection .I have a snowmobile with semi-direct injection and it has worked flawlessly for 6 years and 13000 miles and the great thing is you never have to re-jet ....throttle response is just as good as a carb
MotoGp has been 4 stroke only since 2003...
Klutch
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Klutch 9/17/2010 9:42am
9/17/2010 9:42am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Because it would put 4-strokes out of business.

DI 2-Strokes in Snowmobiles

Further Teasing
ando wrote:
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of: a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev...
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of:

a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev ceiling and wider operating band;

b) there is no legislation in place for dirtbikes to conform to specific fuel consumption and emission limits.
sounds like you have never rode a sled
CamP
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CamP 9/17/2010 10:18am
9/17/2010 10:18am
What the world needs isn't more expensive two stroke motocross bikes. Unless FI makes big power gains, which it doesn't, or the government mandates cleaner two strokes, putting FI on a two stroke dirt bike is stupid.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 9/17/2010 11:14am
9/17/2010 11:14am
KTMRACER732 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the prototype husaberg 2 strokes are fuel injected
I'm pretty sure you're 100% full of shit.
KTMRACER732 9/17/2010 11:18am
9/17/2010 11:18am
KTMRACER732 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the prototype husaberg 2 strokes are fuel injected
nytsmaC wrote:
I'm pretty sure you're 100% full of shit.
I said prototype dumb ass not the ones that are out
loftyair
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loftyair 9/17/2010 11:33am
9/17/2010 11:33am
CamP wrote:
What the world needs isn't more expensive two stroke motocross bikes. Unless FI makes big power gains, which it doesn't, or the government mandates cleaner two...
What the world needs isn't more expensive two stroke motocross bikes. Unless FI makes big power gains, which it doesn't, or the government mandates cleaner two strokes, putting FI on a two stroke dirt bike is stupid.
You can come jet my bikes everytime I go riding at different altitudes or swing in temps and humidity levels then...thx. It will make more power, it's more efficient, and it will save gas, therefore costing less to operate.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 9/17/2010 11:38am
9/17/2010 11:38am
I know an extremely fast 85cc rider here in the NW ( probably more than a few ) that use a mechanical fuel injection system.....and it is by far the fastest 85cc bike I have ever witnessed! seriously looks like he pull up next to a modified 125......looks to be that fast!
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 9/17/2010 11:53am
9/17/2010 11:53am
The real benefit with direct fuel injection (doesn't apply to indirect FI or "semi-direct" as someone said) is the emissions benefit. Without direct injection, you can get most of the power improvements but direct injection would allow more power, less cost, and similar emissions as a four stroke.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 9/17/2010 1:04pm
9/17/2010 1:04pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I know an extremely fast 85cc rider here in the NW ( probably more than a few ) that use a mechanical fuel injection system.....and it...
I know an extremely fast 85cc rider here in the NW ( probably more than a few ) that use a mechanical fuel injection system.....and it is by far the fastest 85cc bike I have ever witnessed! seriously looks like he pull up next to a modified 125......looks to be that fast!
Don't the 125 cc go-carts have some crazy fuel pumps? Not the same as EFI, but they create sick HP? Heard of European 125 cc engine with 50 hp on the dyno (not because fuel pump maybe).
CamP
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CamP 9/17/2010 1:10pm
9/17/2010 1:10pm
loftyair wrote:
You can come jet my bikes everytime I go riding at different altitudes or swing in temps and humidity levels then...thx. It will make more power...
You can come jet my bikes everytime I go riding at different altitudes or swing in temps and humidity levels then...thx. It will make more power, it's more efficient, and it will save gas, therefore costing less to operate.
So I should pay $8k for my next 2T because you can't jet a bike?

Pit Row

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Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 9/17/2010 1:38pm
9/17/2010 1:38pm
I understand what you are saying Cam and agree with you to a point but let's look at the bigger picture shall we. With DI it gives us the ability to tune the powerband to whatever we want. Think about riding a two stroke that is light and flickable that pounds out torque like a 4 banger. With DI it can easily be done.

That being said I like it that my RM 250 is "pipey". It's fun to ride that way.
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 9/17/2010 2:53pm
9/17/2010 2:53pm
Kinetic1 wrote:
I understand what you are saying Cam and agree with you to a point but let's look at the bigger picture shall we. With DI it...
I understand what you are saying Cam and agree with you to a point but let's look at the bigger picture shall we. With DI it gives us the ability to tune the powerband to whatever we want. Think about riding a two stroke that is light and flickable that pounds out torque like a 4 banger. With DI it can easily be done.

That being said I like it that my RM 250 is "pipey". It's fun to ride that way.
Sorry but DI alone will not make a 2-stroke ride like a 4-stroke.

That requires a purple powerba......a screw it. Believe whatever you want.
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 9/17/2010 2:55pm
9/17/2010 2:55pm
You are correct. DI alone will not get you there without the appropriate sensors. A wheel speed sensor and a little add on to the DI computer and you are all set.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 9/17/2010 3:11pm
9/17/2010 3:11pm
ando wrote:
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of: a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev...
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of:

a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev ceiling and wider operating band;

b) there is no legislation in place for dirtbikes to conform to specific fuel consumption and emission limits.
You know nothing about snowmobiles .
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TriRacer27 9/17/2010 4:12pm
9/17/2010 4:12pm
CR250Rider wrote:
[img]http://static.blogo.it/twowheelsblog/ossa-tr280i-01/big_ossa_002perfild.jpg[/img]
I wonder if trails bikes, re-geared and with different suspension, would make better FMX bikes than current motocross bikes?
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 9/17/2010 4:26pm
9/17/2010 4:26pm
Kinetic1 wrote:
You are correct. DI alone will not get you there without the appropriate sensors. A wheel speed sensor and a little add on to the DI...
You are correct. DI alone will not get you there without the appropriate sensors. A wheel speed sensor and a little add on to the DI computer and you are all set.
Where's my buzzer when I need it?

I respectfully disagree. You can make it have more torque, but no amount of sensors or "little add ons" are going to give you the same traction or power characteristics as a four stroke. Those aspects of the power band have much more to do with the rest of the engine.

Wheel speed sensors have nothing to do with DI vs. carb vs. FI. That's traction control and is independent of the fuel delivery system.

Blake
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Blake 9/17/2010 9:45pm
9/17/2010 9:45pm
CamP wrote:
What the world needs isn't more expensive two stroke motocross bikes. Unless FI makes big power gains, which it doesn't, or the government mandates cleaner two...
What the world needs isn't more expensive two stroke motocross bikes. Unless FI makes big power gains, which it doesn't, or the government mandates cleaner two strokes, putting FI on a two stroke dirt bike is stupid.
So 150 dollars more would be stupid?
ando
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ando 9/17/2010 10:16pm
9/17/2010 10:16pm
ando wrote:
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of: a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev...
I think a more realistic answer is a combination of:

a) outboard engines and snowmobiles operate differently to dirtbikes i.e. dirtbikes have a much higher rev ceiling and wider operating band;

b) there is no legislation in place for dirtbikes to conform to specific fuel consumption and emission limits.
lostboy819 wrote:
You know nothing about snowmobiles .
Well, I do know they are subject to emission standards.

Also I thought that snowmobiles use centrifugal clutches or viscous couplings which does change the drive characteristics compared to dirtbikes.
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 9/18/2010 4:13am
9/18/2010 4:13am
Kinetic1 wrote:
You are correct. DI alone will not get you there without the appropriate sensors. A wheel speed sensor and a little add on to the DI...
You are correct. DI alone will not get you there without the appropriate sensors. A wheel speed sensor and a little add on to the DI computer and you are all set.
TriRacer27 wrote:
Where's my buzzer when I need it? I respectfully disagree. You can make it have more torque, but no amount of sensors or "little add ons"...
Where's my buzzer when I need it?

I respectfully disagree. You can make it have more torque, but no amount of sensors or "little add ons" are going to give you the same traction or power characteristics as a four stroke. Those aspects of the power band have much more to do with the rest of the engine.

Wheel speed sensors have nothing to do with DI vs. carb vs. FI. That's traction control and is independent of the fuel delivery system.

Once again you are correct ....and incorrect at the same time. The power charecteristics of a four stroke are only going to be achieved with a four stroke due to certain design factors. However you can get close with an electronically controlled engine and traction control. Also, traction control is not independent of the fuel system on motorcycles. Traction control on every last motorcycle that has it is achieved by way of fuel and spark management.

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