Form causing headshake?

Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak
Edited Date/Time 9/15/2017 4:53pm
I've had an ongoing issue with headshake and I'm running out of ideas. The bike is a 14 Crf250r and I've tried three different revavles from 2 places. I was wondering if it could be me and not the bike. It ussually happens when coming into braking bumps after a faster straight away. It's gotten to the point where I'm so uncomfortable trying to push to the next level that I'm losing interest in riding. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
|
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/12/2017 7:49pm
9/12/2017 7:49pm
Also my one riding buddy who has his pro license has helped me with body positioning and my riding style over the years so I know it's decent.
kzizok
Profile picture for user kzizok
Posts
8393
Joined
10/19/2010
Location
AS US
Fantasy
2034th
kzizok 9/12/2017 8:00pm
9/12/2017 8:00pm
Where are the tubes sitting in the triple clamps?
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 9/12/2017 8:04pm
9/12/2017 8:04pm
Stay on the gas longer....brake earlier....ride the rear brake while on the gas.....lower the rear end.....raise the front end are alll things you can try.
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/12/2017 8:04pm
9/12/2017 8:04pm
1mm up. I've tried flush and different offset clamps. Nothing really helped.

The Shop

See All »
colintrax
Profile picture for user colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2342nd
colintrax 9/12/2017 8:04pm
9/12/2017 8:04pm
I'm in the same boat as you, I get headshake on all things 2 wheeled. Even bicycles...
I bought a Scotts damper years ago, SIGNIFICANTLY reduced my headshake. Occasionally it'll still wiggle, but no more lock to lock shit every other straight.
The Honda damper is useless for headshake. Get a Scotts
mxwrench66
Profile picture for user mxwrench66
Posts
220
Joined
5/22/2008
Location
Ozark, MO US
mxwrench66 9/12/2017 8:07pm
9/12/2017 8:07pm
do not let your knees go in front of your shins when standing. almost like you are doing a squat. it will keep your bike from becoming unbalanced.
mxwrench66
Profile picture for user mxwrench66
Posts
220
Joined
5/22/2008
Location
Ozark, MO US
mxwrench66 9/12/2017 8:08pm
9/12/2017 8:08pm
I promise it's most likemy not "setup" at the pace you ride.
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/12/2017 8:10pm
9/12/2017 8:10pm
mxwrench66 wrote:
do not let your knees go in front of your shins when standing. almost like you are doing a squat. it will keep your bike from...
do not let your knees go in front of your shins when standing. almost like you are doing a squat. it will keep your bike from becoming unbalanced.
I've never heard that before I'll have to work on that. Thanks man.
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/12/2017 8:19pm
9/12/2017 8:19pm
mxwrench66 wrote:
I promise it's most likemy not "setup" at the pace you ride.
I just looked at a older picture I had of my self and my knees are way ahead of my shins. I also looked at some pics of pros and can clearly see what you mean.
gsxr6
Profile picture for user gsxr6
Posts
1956
Joined
9/3/2011
Location
Anderson, CA US
gsxr6 9/12/2017 8:21pm
9/12/2017 8:21pm
Hanging on too much with your hands can cause any motorcycle to be unstable. I focus on squeezing with my legs, and that helps tremendously as far as not having to death grip, I also always always always go McGrath attack position elbows above my wrists whenever I want to stop wiggling. I've watched smoke come off my gsxr from tire when sitting down from wheelie, but never gotten headshake on it. Attack position and dirt bikes I feel taught me how to force the bars straight. I seriously lock them and do not let them move on either type of bike. I rode a friend's 85 cr500 when I was 14, 4th gear tapped the bars held straight and the damn conventional forks we're flexing so much it was making it headshake. Only bike I ever experienced that feeling on lol.
gsxr6
Profile picture for user gsxr6
Posts
1956
Joined
9/3/2011
Location
Anderson, CA US
gsxr6 9/12/2017 8:24pm
9/12/2017 8:24pm
Buddy of mine bought a new used bike, was getting headshake over bumps in fifth gear, one day I decided to check his fork oil. Low and behold one side bone dry lol hehe, put oil in that day, headshake gone but of course the seal leaked a ton of oil. Fixed the seal, no more headshake for him.
CarlinoJoeVideo
Profile picture for user CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7358
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
2339th
CarlinoJoeVideo 9/12/2017 9:01pm
9/12/2017 9:01pm
Have you tried adjusting the compression and rebound, also the sag height?
mattyhamz2
Profile picture for user mattyhamz2
Posts
10866
Joined
7/6/2015
Location
So Cal, CA US
Fantasy
767th
mattyhamz2 9/12/2017 9:34pm
9/12/2017 9:34pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
Have you tried adjusting the compression and rebound, also the sag height?
This.

Also, it's a Honda, they do that Tongue jk
TimR
Profile picture for user TimR
Posts
65
Joined
4/29/2013
Location
SE
TimR 9/12/2017 9:47pm
9/12/2017 9:47pm
Funny because I also had a 14 crf250 which beat me to hell with the headshake. Tried lots of things but never really figured it out. Went to a 16 crf450 and the headshake was gone. Now ride a 12 yz125 and still no problems with headshake.

Now when I think about it, I think my crf250 was built for a faster rider. My crf450 and yz125 was valved for me, the crf250 wasnt.
MX690
Profile picture for user MX690
Posts
784
Joined
11/13/2009
Location
AU
MX690 9/12/2017 10:14pm
9/12/2017 10:14pm
Try tightning your head stem nuts. I run mine tight enough that my bars don't just flop from side to side when it on the stand. When my bike is on the stand I can turn my bars anywhere and they won't just fall to one side they will stay where I leave them. It won't completly stop head shake but does help.
mark911
Profile picture for user mark911
Posts
360
Joined
3/28/2015
Location
Ashville, OH US
mark911 9/12/2017 10:32pm
9/12/2017 10:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2017 10:50pm
Assuming you have properly valved, installed and serviced suspension (including spring rates and steering damper), correct rear sag numbers, and ballpark clicker settings, there's not too many more things on the bike to check. However, there are a few left.

Do you have a strange size or worn out front or rear tire? Is the tire pressure correct? The proper size, carcass stiffness and pressure are important.
Do you have a bigger fuel tank installed? The change in weight distribution and CG height can cause issues. Is your rear axle adjusted towards the back of the swing arm? The change in wheelbase affects weight distribution and jacking. Similarly, a strange sized rear/front sprocket can do weird things.
Do you have a bent or unbalanced front wheel? Puncture proof additives can cause balance issues as well.
Do you have a damaged frame (bent, kinked, cracked, etc).

As far as riding style goes, the goal would be to minimize the diving of the front forks (loss of trail) due to the forward transfer of weight. A couple ways have already been suggested: Keep your weight back and low, don't lean on the handlebars (grip with the knees), don't use as much brake (particularly the front).
Johnny89superbike 9/13/2017 4:01am
9/13/2017 4:01am
Are your bars too far rotated forward, lay them back a touch to take some weight off the front-end. It also changes the leverage over the steering; this fix has worked for many of my friends on CRF250's.

Maybe a combination of: not enough sag on the rear shock / not enough rebound damping and fork springs too soft / too light on fork compression damping.

Or a case of all of the above?

Pit Row

See All »
rmoto003
Profile picture for user rmoto003
Posts
926
Joined
2/26/2017
Location
Gulf Shores, AL US
rmoto003 9/13/2017 4:19am
9/13/2017 4:19am
Have you tried torquing down that little nut thats under the top triple clamp? The one that holds the steering stem

I do this on all my bikes to where the front end doesnt move on its own on the stand, and its pretty much gotten rid of the headshake. I had a 13 crf250 that had I got a lot of headshake on until I did this little trick
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/13/2017 4:39am
9/13/2017 4:39am
mark911 wrote:
Assuming you have properly valved, installed and serviced suspension (including spring rates and steering damper), correct rear sag numbers, and ballpark clicker settings, there's not too...
Assuming you have properly valved, installed and serviced suspension (including spring rates and steering damper), correct rear sag numbers, and ballpark clicker settings, there's not too many more things on the bike to check. However, there are a few left.

Do you have a strange size or worn out front or rear tire? Is the tire pressure correct? The proper size, carcass stiffness and pressure are important.
Do you have a bigger fuel tank installed? The change in weight distribution and CG height can cause issues. Is your rear axle adjusted towards the back of the swing arm? The change in wheelbase affects weight distribution and jacking. Similarly, a strange sized rear/front sprocket can do weird things.
Do you have a bent or unbalanced front wheel? Puncture proof additives can cause balance issues as well.
Do you have a damaged frame (bent, kinked, cracked, etc).

As far as riding style goes, the goal would be to minimize the diving of the front forks (loss of trail) due to the forward transfer of weight. A couple ways have already been suggested: Keep your weight back and low, don't lean on the handlebars (grip with the knees), don't use as much brake (particularly the front).
Sag is what the suspension guy says. Always serviced at 20-30 hours. I've tried tightening the stem ring. Normal fresh tires. Stock gearing. Overall everything should be good that's why I'm so frustrated.
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/13/2017 4:40am
9/13/2017 4:40am
And thanks everyone for your ideas, It's much appreciated. I've tried pretty much everything bike wise people have said with little to no improvement over time.
Naanak
Profile picture for user Naanak
Posts
625
Joined
9/9/2014
Location
NJ US
Naanak 9/13/2017 4:41am
9/13/2017 4:41am
TimR wrote:
Funny because I also had a 14 crf250 which beat me to hell with the headshake. Tried lots of things but never really figured it out...
Funny because I also had a 14 crf250 which beat me to hell with the headshake. Tried lots of things but never really figured it out. Went to a 16 crf450 and the headshake was gone. Now ride a 12 yz125 and still no problems with headshake.

Now when I think about it, I think my crf250 was built for a faster rider. My crf450 and yz125 was valved for me, the crf250 wasnt.
It's always been set for me. My friend had a 15 250 Honda and said he never got it.
UpTiTe
Profile picture for user UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
UpTiTe 9/13/2017 4:42am
9/13/2017 4:42am
Head shake is usually caused by to much compression, soften it two clicks at a time until it feels good.

Also to much rebound dampening will hold it down in the stroke causing a harsh feeling.

Gork height also causes it, you could try lowering them puting more weight on the front.

I'd start at adjusting the comprehension.

mxwrench66
Profile picture for user mxwrench66
Posts
220
Joined
5/22/2008
Location
Ozark, MO US
mxwrench66 9/13/2017 5:00am
9/13/2017 5:00am
Naanak wrote:
It's always been set for me. My friend had a 15 250 Honda and said he never got it.
look at photos of roczen. Also riding with your toes in on the balls of your feet will automatically drive your knees into the side of your bike. When you squat properly your knees stay over your feet, your butt drops low and back, and your head goes forward over the bars. This keeps the weight even over the bike while maintaining control.
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1890th
Markee 9/13/2017 5:58am
9/13/2017 5:58am
Isn't your bike from the factory weight bias heavy on the front end? I heard guys call that bike "twichy". I have never rode one, but what you are complaining about seems par for the corse with that machine. That being said, setup could really help.

BTW, Stability vs Cornering that's always the battle.

zziptie
Profile picture for user zziptie
Posts
9
Joined
1/3/2014
Location
indiana, PA US
zziptie 9/13/2017 8:45pm
9/13/2017 8:45pm
Make sure your handle bar clamps are in the forward position and your bars slightly back. And maybe your steering damper needs rebuilt.
22Ryann
Profile picture for user 22Ryann
Posts
828
Joined
11/29/2010
Location
AU
Fantasy
4080th
22Ryann 9/14/2017 2:54am
9/14/2017 2:54am
Bar position in front or behind fork leg is a big one for me, i literally had 100% stability with bars mounted one way compare to other way having massive head shake on my kx250f 2011 model. Most bar mounts move position by rotating them 180deg.

Not sure if you have tried this or not.
Belg
Profile picture for user Belg
Posts
111
Joined
2/28/2015
Location
BE
Belg 9/14/2017 3:10am
9/14/2017 3:10am
Strange nobody asked a video of the TS riding , and perhaps the headshake .
m.hardesty16 9/14/2017 3:23am
9/14/2017 3:23am
Try FCR suspension they should be able help. It could very well be your body position but if thats good after your friend gave you help maybe you need another revalve.
rongi#401
Profile picture for user rongi#401
Posts
1636
Joined
6/20/2016
Location
southern, CA US
rongi#401 9/14/2017 3:47am
9/14/2017 3:47am
MX690 wrote:
Try tightning your head stem nuts. I run mine tight enough that my bars don't just flop from side to side when it on the stand...
Try tightning your head stem nuts. I run mine tight enough that my bars don't just flop from side to side when it on the stand. When my bike is on the stand I can turn my bars anywhere and they won't just fall to one side they will stay where I leave them. It won't completly stop head shake but does help.
this

Post a reply to: Form causing headshake?