For You 2-stroke Nuts

steed 2.0
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7/29/2013 10:06am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2013 5:31am
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JT408
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7/29/2013 12:01pm
best thing ive seen for a long time. the honda guy is a bit on, off if u ask me says he will be telling his MD but thinks a 300 "T is a bad idea.. also seems honda dont really want to be in the motocross scene somthing about they are intrested in 4T only
JW381
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7/29/2013 1:15pm
I saw this, I meant to post it here. It's definitely interesting to read.

Crazy to hear the Honda mention that there's even a possibility of red 2-strokes.

The Shop

OldYZRider1
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7/29/2013 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2013 2:45pm
Interesting read.

I like the criticism Luongo dishs out; that the Japanese manufacturer's have erred in their thinking about focusing exclusively on the four strokes. So he and Youthstream are gonna attempt a remedy with this new class structure. He appears to be trying to create an arena for some of the smaller manufacturer's to develop bikes. I think its great to see them attempt it and I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

Maybe some teams will build machines out of current production Japanese two strokes but I'm doubtful of Japanese factory involvement. I sure hope KTM supports it and I think it'd be great to see TM, Husqvarna, GasGas, Ossa, Maico and other smaller manufacturers in it.

I'm really wondering about the ramifications for the MXdN. Will we actually get to see these two strokes on track with the four strokes at the same time?? That'd be cool to see!

Edit: I re-read this and now realize their indicating its a European Championship so its not a replacement for the MX3 class that their dissolving? If so then are the future MXdN's only going to be MX1 and MX2 classes; so two riders per team? I'd think they'd need more racing at the MXdN to draw the international crowds than just four races worth.
DrSweden
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7/29/2013 2:01pm
Ha! The tides are turing. Change is always for the better...
JT408
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7/29/2013 2:16pm
MAICO WTF DUDE. do they still exist?
JT408
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7/29/2013 2:17pm
DrSweden wrote:
Ha! The tides are turing. Change is always for the better...
+1 bbrrrappp
newmann
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7/29/2013 2:46pm
Yeah, Luongo doesn't seem to have a problem telling the Japanese OEM's that they screwed the pooch and damaged the sport. But of course I think he's screwed the pooch a little himself.

I do love seeing the 125 class kicking ass over there. Could....should happen here too!
Hawwy
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7/29/2013 3:00pm
Good read!
burn1986
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7/29/2013 3:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2013 3:16pm
Okay. . . This article means basically . . . Nothing. There may be a possibility of some parity between the 2 & 4s in Europe (a big maybe), but there is way more hate of the 2- stroke in the US by all the promoters, manuf's, and the AMA. There will be a 3rd world war before 2-strokes are allowed any beneficial rule change in the US.
seth505
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7/29/2013 3:21pm
burn1986 wrote:
Okay. . . This article means basically . . . Nothing. There may be a possibility of some parity between the 2 & 4s in Europe...
Okay. . . This article means basically . . . Nothing. There may be a possibility of some parity between the 2 & 4s in Europe (a big maybe), but there is way more hate of the 2- stroke in the US by all the promoters, manuf's, and the AMA. There will be a 3rd world war before 2-strokes are allowed any beneficial rule change in the US.
This is kind of how I took it as well. Other than KTM, it would hold more weight if the interviews were with representatives from the US or straight from Japan.
burn1986
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7/29/2013 3:26pm
Japan, the AMA, and the promoters will kill any real 2-stroke effort in the US.
7/29/2013 5:40pm
That was a good read. There was a lot to take away from that. Being that I was out of the sport when the 4-stroke took over, I only heard competing rumors as to why riders made the switch. I was surprised to read the Honda guy saying, for them at least, it was about emissions. I had heard that elsewhere, but then, Jody, in his Two-Stroke Manifesto, says that whole thing about emissions was just an excuse. I don't know what to believe, and in the end, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Personally, I like my two-stroke because I understand it. I know how to do a top end job, and I can do it in an afternoon while drinking a beer. I'm not afraid to split the cases should I have to. In the end though, I really don't care what some other rider is on. I'm just out for fun, and the guy next to me is having fun on thumper, then more power to him. It's really none of my business why someone is riding something different from me.
7/29/2013 7:19pm
burn1986 wrote:
Japan, the AMA, and the promoters will kill any real 2-stroke effort in the US.
let them try Wink

tsm aint going nowhere
Orange724
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7/29/2013 8:29pm
Good read.

I haven't been a big Luongo fan, but I like how he's sticking to the 300 cc limit. It will make it more interesting than just a standard 250 class.
Fearo
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7/30/2013 12:50am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2013 12:51am
I wanted to post this article last week but decided not to because it is so depressing to read that even some factory team managers have no clue on what's going on in the real world...

Steve Guttridge from Kawasaki pretty much takes the cake.. Need some examples?

"As a compromise, if youthstream want to stage a series for manufacturers and people that want to race 2-strokes then great. It is a diverse and free market".

He's basically saying 2-stroke enthusiasts ride the special bus...

Also, Ben Popperwell from Monster Energy Yamaha:

"There are probably only 2 manufacturers left that are still selling 250's."

The head honcho at Yamaha's factory GP team in Europe has never heard of the brand TM. Great.
7/30/2013 2:40am
JW381 wrote:
I saw this, I meant to post it here. It's definitely interesting to read. Crazy to hear the Honda mention that there's even a possibility of...
I saw this, I meant to post it here. It's definitely interesting to read.

Crazy to hear the Honda mention that there's even a possibility of red 2-strokes.
Unless it's a press release, I don't ever expect Honda to release 2 strokes again. Even their small hedge trimmers and such are 4 stroke machines. And this is coming from a Honda nut! They do have the tech to do fuel injection though and have built the best 2 stroke engines ever made.
JW381
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7/31/2013 12:29pm
JW381 wrote:
I saw this, I meant to post it here. It's definitely interesting to read. Crazy to hear the Honda mention that there's even a possibility of...
I saw this, I meant to post it here. It's definitely interesting to read.

Crazy to hear the Honda mention that there's even a possibility of red 2-strokes.
Unless it's a press release, I don't ever expect Honda to release 2 strokes again. Even their small hedge trimmers and such are 4 stroke machines...
Unless it's a press release, I don't ever expect Honda to release 2 strokes again. Even their small hedge trimmers and such are 4 stroke machines. And this is coming from a Honda nut! They do have the tech to do fuel injection though and have built the best 2 stroke engines ever made.
I dunno man, the guy said that if the market called for it, they could do it. It's kinda like Lloyd Christmas.
DrSweden
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7/31/2013 1:23pm
I take the article in a very positive way. Maybe I'm biased like hell, but I read them in hindsight, figure it wasn't such a good idea going four stroke. Kind of a defense speak from many? Who really gained ANYTHING in the end? They just kept going in the wrong direction, and the hangar ship seems to be too big to turn around.

But it keeps ending with the market, when are buyers really going to make an impact? These small brands might grow in this void, this series might get more attention if it hits at all, all in what order I don't know. If tides will turn, I see Honda adapting ($), at least that was what I read...

I really dig what Luongo is doing here. Kudos to him for having some balls (I guess his crazy 20 year deal with FIM makes him pretty safe). Wink
steed 2.0
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7/31/2013 2:26pm
DrSweden wrote:
I take the article in a very positive way. Maybe I'm biased like hell, but I read them in hindsight, figure it wasn't such a good...
I take the article in a very positive way. Maybe I'm biased like hell, but I read them in hindsight, figure it wasn't such a good idea going four stroke. Kind of a defense speak from many? Who really gained ANYTHING in the end? They just kept going in the wrong direction, and the hangar ship seems to be too big to turn around.

But it keeps ending with the market, when are buyers really going to make an impact? These small brands might grow in this void, this series might get more attention if it hits at all, all in what order I don't know. If tides will turn, I see Honda adapting ($), at least that was what I read...

I really dig what Luongo is doing here. Kudos to him for having some balls (I guess his crazy 20 year deal with FIM makes him pretty safe). Wink
Honda builds occasionally replicas of past models example http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-dream-50r
I believe in series of 3,000 units

3000 units 2007 CR250R estimated costs of 10 million and stock for more than 10 years Whistling
DrSweden
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7/31/2013 3:00pm
steed 2.0 wrote:
Honda builds occasionally replicas of past models example http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-dream-50r I believe in series of 3,000 units 3000 units 2007 CR250R estimated costs of 10 million and...
Honda builds occasionally replicas of past models example http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-dream-50r
I believe in series of 3,000 units

3000 units 2007 CR250R estimated costs of 10 million and stock for more than 10 years Whistling
I like that! Put the 2001 mill in that sucker though...
CamP
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7/31/2013 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/31/2013 3:38pm
DrSweden wrote:
I like that! Put the 2001 mill in that sucker though...
That would be a step backwards. The final version of Honda's case reed engine made 5hp more than the 01 engine.
mynewcr250
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7/31/2013 9:38pm Edited Date/Time 7/31/2013 9:39pm
DrSweden wrote:
I like that! Put the 2001 mill in that sucker though...
CamP wrote:
That would be a step backwards. The final version of Honda's case reed engine made 5hp more than the 01 engine.
says who? the dyno figures have changed over the years..mxa claims 47hp from the 01 cr250 now which isnt 5hp less than what claimed in 07. you also lowered your cylinder, so i doubt the max claimed HP applys to your bike. you changed hondas "final version" to actually make it a useable engine vs what honda left everyone with.

even you've admitted the stock engine was terrible and needed help. what good is 49hp, if it has horrible spread and not as easy to ride as the 45-47hp 01?
nytsmaC
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8/1/2013 2:01am
Dyno comparisons are impossible unless you ran a stock 01 and a stock 07 back toback. Even then the bike that loses on the dyno could very well be the winner on thetrack.

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