Posts
272
Joined
1/17/2015
Location
Scranton, PA
US
Edited Date/Time
3/28/2015 12:07pm
After reading all the stuff lately and still honestly concerned about deaths/injuries in the sport I can only come to one conclusion. These events aren't directly caused by speed, power, tracks, gear, rules and on and on and on. The freak accident is just that, what I'm talking about here is maybe what could have been prevented.
I'm not smart enough in engineering, physics, data collection/analysis or many other things, if anything. I'm just a regular guy, of average intelligence who loves this sport.
What in my almost meaningless opinion is the root cause of the rash of bad crashes and injuries/deaths? Lack of education and common sense by parents and children, which is aggravated by well, my son or my daughter is gonna be a pro and we are putting everything into this, therefore mister, or missy, you better nut up (or whatever women do) and quit your crying and pick up the pace.
This is no means is to attack or directly implicate any specific parents or riders. My heart goes out to those who have lost their loved ones and friends, regardless of how or why it happened. That's a tough pill to swallow and I've personally seen it and wish it on no one.
When did everyone start doing this sport to be the next bad ass? Well, societal changes have certainly added fuel to the fire. The need to be the best you can be and have fun with it has been replaced with you need to be better than everyone else and you're entitled to it because you showed up and have that participation trophy to prove it, now go quad that 200 foot gap to shave 1/2 a second off your lap time, just don't... Ah you'll be fine.
I don't know. When I was younger and was racing with that dream (even though there is no way in hell I'd ever make it) I looked and some stuff on the tracks and said to myself, no way in hell, I'm not ready for that.
People are pushing, you need to go faster, scrub harder, jump further, hang on longer and brake later than ever before in amateur racing.
Now I am personally conflicted. If you're going to race, the goal is obviously to finish well, but where is the line? I would never ever tell my kids to A: try something they were not comfortable with B: tell them to try something new during a race
What is the solution? I really don't know. Do we punish everyone, Joes to Bros to Pros just to prevent one more injury? I submit no. You know what you're getting yourself into everytime you throw a leg over that bike. With that mentality we might as well outlaw cars that go over 70 MPH and outlaw sharp knives, lock ourselves inside our houses and hope we don't trip and fall walking down the steps... Well we should mandate single story houses with no basements or attics too.
I humbly submit this. The solution probably needs to come from the tops of the sport. Leaders like RC, MC, KDub, DC and Emig could start a social media campaign for our sport pushing parental and amateur racer common sense. They can say things like if you're not comfortable with something don't do it, you're never going to get better If you suffer a major injury or die. Ride safe, try to improve in small steps and learn to flow/be completely comfortable with what you are doing before you decide to start stepping up. Winning isn't everything as long as you've learned something. You don't have to quintuple that jump if you learn to corner better. Small stuff like this can and I do think would start to reel in some of the insane stuff I've seen lately.
Again, this is just my opinion. It means little. Just looking to start a conversation.
I'm not smart enough in engineering, physics, data collection/analysis or many other things, if anything. I'm just a regular guy, of average intelligence who loves this sport.
What in my almost meaningless opinion is the root cause of the rash of bad crashes and injuries/deaths? Lack of education and common sense by parents and children, which is aggravated by well, my son or my daughter is gonna be a pro and we are putting everything into this, therefore mister, or missy, you better nut up (or whatever women do) and quit your crying and pick up the pace.
This is no means is to attack or directly implicate any specific parents or riders. My heart goes out to those who have lost their loved ones and friends, regardless of how or why it happened. That's a tough pill to swallow and I've personally seen it and wish it on no one.
When did everyone start doing this sport to be the next bad ass? Well, societal changes have certainly added fuel to the fire. The need to be the best you can be and have fun with it has been replaced with you need to be better than everyone else and you're entitled to it because you showed up and have that participation trophy to prove it, now go quad that 200 foot gap to shave 1/2 a second off your lap time, just don't... Ah you'll be fine.
I don't know. When I was younger and was racing with that dream (even though there is no way in hell I'd ever make it) I looked and some stuff on the tracks and said to myself, no way in hell, I'm not ready for that.
People are pushing, you need to go faster, scrub harder, jump further, hang on longer and brake later than ever before in amateur racing.
Now I am personally conflicted. If you're going to race, the goal is obviously to finish well, but where is the line? I would never ever tell my kids to A: try something they were not comfortable with B: tell them to try something new during a race
What is the solution? I really don't know. Do we punish everyone, Joes to Bros to Pros just to prevent one more injury? I submit no. You know what you're getting yourself into everytime you throw a leg over that bike. With that mentality we might as well outlaw cars that go over 70 MPH and outlaw sharp knives, lock ourselves inside our houses and hope we don't trip and fall walking down the steps... Well we should mandate single story houses with no basements or attics too.
I humbly submit this. The solution probably needs to come from the tops of the sport. Leaders like RC, MC, KDub, DC and Emig could start a social media campaign for our sport pushing parental and amateur racer common sense. They can say things like if you're not comfortable with something don't do it, you're never going to get better If you suffer a major injury or die. Ride safe, try to improve in small steps and learn to flow/be completely comfortable with what you are doing before you decide to start stepping up. Winning isn't everything as long as you've learned something. You don't have to quintuple that jump if you learn to corner better. Small stuff like this can and I do think would start to reel in some of the insane stuff I've seen lately.
Again, this is just my opinion. It means little. Just looking to start a conversation.
Vet riders could reduce injuries simply by putting a little effort into being more flexible.ALL of you old farts need to stretch ..daily! Its good for the young bucks too
Everybody knows someone who got hurt the first lap of the day.ALLWAYS take a sight lap, then awarm up lap ,then 3/4 ,then wfo.
Keep your equipment in top shape.I helped cart a bike off the track once with the owner limping alongside .I notice the throttle was stuck due to a frayed cable.I questioned the rider about it,his reply "i thought i could get one more ride " Ive seen it time and again some one gets hurt because they dont take care of thier stuff.
Keep your ego in check.You dont have to do all the big jumps,learn your corners!!!Parents should keep his in mind ...x10
Use the best available safety equipment,I started in work boots ,levis,and a $10 helmet.Now ,my gear costs more than my first 2 motorcycles.
Its along time for some of you between motos,Keep an eye on the track during the day to see how it develops.It not cool getting the holeshot then going over the bars in the second corner due to massive breaking bumps that werent there in practice.
The list goes on on how to make the sport safer,I just hope all of you do YOUR best in doing so..
The Shop
To the OP. You made some great points too, especially with the parents.
Doubles and triples were extremely rare in motocross, then supercross made them popular (for the show..) and we see them in motocross too; I say that changing those tracks and removing them will reduce the danger and I agree 100% with the post, responsability #1, but many parents are NOT responsible and innocent kids will keep paying consequences..
Bikes today are very fast and tracks should keep the average speed at a reasonable level. MXGP rules suggested tracks to keep avg speed at maximum 34 mph; they recently changed it to 40 mph, I dont' think will result in less danger...
My friend broke his back over the ski jump at red bud. Completely his fault. A pretty safe jump but he over jumped it and flat landed. Another friend broke his femur over a high speed single when his chain snapped. I agree the sx style jumps can be dangerous but so can any jump. The sport is just plain dangerous. The only way to really change that would be keeping the wheels on the ground for the most part. Is that really what anyone wants to happen to mx? Probably not. Maybe someone should build an all natural track; just elevation changes, singles, real rough, lots of corners, and see what kind of reception it gets.
It makes me laugh watching all the C and slower B riders trying to scrub everything in sight, if only they knew that the real place to save time is in the corners....but I'm getting off topic here.
1. Have fun, if it isn't fun its not worth doing.
2. Give me 100% of what you have in you and don't quit if you fall, get up and charge again (unless you are hurt of course).
3. Don't ride over your head and do something dumb to get hurt. Better to go home in one piece.
I have seen too many parents yelling and screaming at their kids because they are not performing up to what they expect or think they can do (and I used to be one of them). Learning how to encourage and support instead of trying to get them to ride over their heads will help. Also as mentioned above the "pushing them to be the next big thing" has to stop. Everyone cannot be the next big thing. Setting a goal is always good but does it have to be to turn pro? We are trying to make it to the big show (Loretta's). My son will never be the next big thing but at the end of the day, whether we make it or not, I am super proud of his ability and the priceless time I get to spend with him doing what we both love to do. The memories will last long after I leave this earth.
Nothing wrong with looking at tracks, gear, bikes to supplement but it all starts with PERSONNEL RESPONSIBILITY.
Bubba rides a 450 so they must too!
I don't think the sport is actually broke, just misled a bit by crooks, greed and a side order of stupidity. When it gets down to the one person we all look up to in this sport to fix things, well his hands are just a little bit tied. The OEM's will have no part of being sensible until it's too late.
I don't believe in going backwards with slower bike etc people will try that big double anyway. Hoewever I do believe most tracks can be built safer. If you come up a little short on one you shouldn't brake you ankles and wrists. Jumps can actually be made safer than that. But then again motocross is a sport on two weels and high speed we will never get away from ban injuries, but I do believe we can make them less.
And i do also believe, or believe, know for a fact that a lot of the kids(Age I don't know, 10 to 20 maybe?) racing feel a huge amount of pressure from their parents(often the father) to go fast and do whatever it takes to win, you know with all the money and time they put in to it.. That might be something all parents should think about before letting your kid know he or she lost 1 sec per lap by not making that jump or whatever it might be. Hell I've felt it myself, even when I won I got to know what I could do better as a 10 year old. Maybe not "if you just would have jumped that" more small things like standing longer in to a certain corner etc. Even if that is not meant in a bad way as criticism and to add pressure on you some kids definitely feel an added pressure by those small things. But hopefully you know if your kid can take it or not since we're all different. Now I've never had a bad injury and never rode over my head so I guess I could take it, even if it would have felt good to just hear "great ride" and nothing more sometime when you won
^ Steve 396 said what I tried do say well
Pit Row
Guys over then 18 its our responsibility to take care of ourselves and other at the track. If something is not safe to a few speak up. Track owners should listen because it does effect them.
Doubles were started because it saves from having to use to much dirt in SX, it then moved to outdoors. Yeah there were some early doubles like the Magoo jump and Suicide Mountain at Saddleback. Not meant to be jumped but the riders pushed it a little harder and made it.
We don't do it for the safety of the sport because we know its not safe, never will be. Yeah I guess we could build cages around the rider and ad more weight. I would bet 2 wheeled racing of any racing sport has the highest death rate because we have no protection other than what we wear. No matter if you wear a new design helmet or any number of neck braces or chest protectors it will still happen. Do you know a person could die if the sever a artery from a femur.
Its a sport done by a few old and young and enjoyed by others who know nothing about it other than seeing it once in a while on TV. Change needed yes but if things are never said things will never change. Each and everyone of you has a voice so use it. Not even one at the top will make changes happen but if its more of the top guys thinking it, well start saying it. The voice of one is often lost but the voice of many can rock the world.
1. MX or SX Pro here is nothing what we can do to make it safer and we should not be asked to make it safe!
2. Riding for fun and amateur racing is a different story.
a. Reducing the CC or limit the power will not end in an result at all.
b. Instead of reducing switching on the brain and riding in his own abilities will help.
c. Most tracks are good except some parts which don't has to be or could be changed.
Nobody wants to take away the large jumps but they can be a little safer!
We had injuries and brainless people all the time and that will never change.
Anybody who has some $ in his pocket can buy a dirt bike and race.
Racing a dirt bike is the cheapest way to do motorsport.
So that will attract even "don't get me wrong" lets call them different thinking people!
I don't like the entire discussion about safe or not safe.
Safety will start with any single rider on the track!
But there could be things done on tracks to try to minimize the risk.
For the record:
There will be NEVER such thing of 100% safety ever!
NO MATTER WHAT brilliant changes the industry come up with to supposedly make the sport safer people are still gonna continue to get mangled and killed.
Risk vs Reward............don't ride if you are not able to assess and calculate the maximum level of risk your willing to take. Take calculated risks and accept the consequences that may result.
Fixing the sport? NOTHING is going to change.
How is it possible that there is suddenly a frenzy to make the sport safer? Only one explanation - a lot of gullible people.
My Son loves to ride and it is my responsibility don't let him make the same mistakes I made in the past.
What helped tremendous teaching him was talking.
But how can you talk to your kid when he is riding?
Looks ugly but I bought a Bluetooth intercom with a reach of about 80-100 yards.
So while he is riding I can tell him right away what he did good and what was wrong.
We will use that this year because he just started and he is doing good.
(and not because I am his Dad
When I started I tried to teach everything by myself and failed it took years to get rid of the bad habits.
He wants to go fast from day one and I told him and tried to teach him ride clean and speed will come by itself.
Do everything a little slower at the beginning and after a while increase the intensity or speed.
Feld....repeat... FELD.. owns supercross, no different than the circus, a monster truck show, MX arenacross or Disney on Ice.
It's a show, it's hollywood, it's a production.
Supercross racing is NOT A SPORT!
It is a show and if your lucky and have enough talent, you can participate.
Sorry.
Sure. I want people to get hurt less. All I've seen from the two stroke nazis is reduce displacement and bring back two stokes and no I'm not a four stroke nazi, I love em both. They also keep saying you're going to price motocross out of the hands of normal people. Yeah, they said the same thing in the 80s and 90s and prior to that. Anyone pushing the two stroke only things is crazy. The companies will start making them again when they start to rival 4 stroke sales. Period. Sorry, got off track there.
Anyway, I still beleive common sense and education is going to trump the day.
PEPE, you're on to something. That kind of feed back and presence I'm sure helps your son. You might even have a million dollar idea, make it sleek, small and sturdy and you could probably take it to market. Only down side would be those crazy moto dads could yell at their kids the whole race instead of at one spot or after the race. That's also what we need more of. Encourage fine tuning the big concepts and then the rest will follow.
Everyone knows that you cannot eliminate risk. The question is: "How can we minimize risk?"
If you are saying to just accept the current amount of risk, I don't see how you could ever claim to care about the well being of the riders.
But usually that's the same kind of personality!
The don't ride and if they ride poorly due to limited abilities.
Usually those Moto Dads want to compensate what they never had or never achieved.
Have tons of stories about those dad's.
Sadly those kids usually have a good basic talent and it could be elevated.
But those Moto Dad's will force the Kids loosing the fun on riding or they ride with fear.
As soon as they have their own driver license.
Saw that quit often!
Luckily the intercom devices are not allowed during races.
But for practice it is awesome and I could even recommend that to older riders.
Didn't though about it developing it further!
Getting the input right away will fix so many issues right from the beginning.
Maybe I will post a Video from my Son after riding 3-4 hours.
Was asked couple times already how long is he riding?
And when I tell them he started in November 2014 they could not believe it.
Working with Kids on MX bikes is so much fun.
They want to learn and listen and they learn fast.
The idea with the intercom device was due to an accident.
We where riding and I was right behind him.
We where riding a section with 3 small whoops and he was going to slow to clear the 2nd whoop.
That was something I would never see again seeing you kid crashing and you cant do anything.
A single word could have prevented that accident.
Luckily he just bit on his tongue, but the same day I looked for a Bluetooth device.
Found one for less than 100$.
Problem solved!
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