Finally, the AMA speaks to press re: Dungey

NotCore
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Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 10:18pm
http://racerxonline.com/2016/03/23/between-the-motos-amas-kevin-crowther

Lots of vagueness in language regarding this decision, but he does give us a context about what happened and why the decision was made, and refers to the changes made since the villo decision. Also discusses why the triple yellow lights might remain on after the track is cleared.

Took a long time to get this info out to the public.
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kkawboy14
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3/23/2016 7:35am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 7:37am
They don't like having to answer to anyone.

We should just be happy they allow moto to happen!
TeamGreen
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3/23/2016 8:04am
That's the best explanation I've seen in one of these situations.

Ever.
JBlain619
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3/23/2016 8:19am
Who was the Motosport rider that clearly jumped during the Red Cross flag Friese or Alessi? Why was there not a penalty for it?
Dr Wario
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3/23/2016 8:20am
Good explanation of the process, but still the wrong outcome. Common sense should prevail at some point, but I guess not today or with this incident.

The Shop

Zaugg
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3/23/2016 8:29am
Clearly there's a ton of "covering their own ass" type language. Nothing definitive and plenty of interpretation. I get it, they can't really go back on it now or they look ineffective...even thought fans who follow this stuff already think there's a certain level of ineffectiveness on the part of the AMA.

A final thought, even though the flag was thrown by an AMA official, does that give it more merit? Maybe the official thought the incident was worse off than it was but why not a yellow then red cross flag...why..BOOM!!!...straight to a red cross flag.

Might be time to look at the effectiveness of our officials. If Dungey messed up, which in all likelihood he did, the penalty is a good one. I think the AMA needs to revisit the flags, flaggers, and when to deploy, knowing that this is a high paced event.
Ozzy
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3/23/2016 8:55am
I like Kevin & John.
I've worked with them all over the yrs & respect them.
But seriously, did you think for 1 minute anything against themselves would be said or admitted?
Shame on this interview for thinking so.
It's a Flawed System, Period.
There's Reasonable Doubt even in his replies here!! Calling the Kettel Black will never go anywhere.
This whole deal is on them I'm afraid, of another bad call & decision.
Police policing themselves changes nothing & from yrs of this, the Song Remains the Same!!
1 agrees & like water the other follows.
Heard this over & over!!
Unfortunately nothing will really change until such time.
#2LooseyGoosey
#TheirWayortheHWY

& why didn't they, KTM, Protest?
Simple...
KTM & HUSKY ARE 1
I can Guarantee you, if this involved a Horse of another color, other than White, this whole thing would've been Protested
Slowdude
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3/23/2016 9:02am
Seems like it would have been a great chance to release the video along with the interview. As far as I am aware, it wasn't shown on TV or been on the internet. Or have I missed it somewhere?

And this quote from the interview: "We understand these guys are racing but they need to race with their heads." Really, you want to make this comment when discussing one of the most deliberate racers in history?
floridaflash
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3/23/2016 9:09am
You should not take the win away, this is where I agree with NASCAR, the fans should not find out the outcome after they leave. Have it set up where fines and or points are deducted.
dsmith
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3/23/2016 9:10am
here's the statement that i got out if it that probably broke the camels back for the dunge ...

So they checked up more than Dungey did, from the race director’s perspective?
Yeah. In the video that we saw, Ryan didn’t check up at all. He was still in full attack mode through the whole section.
3/23/2016 9:20am
Shouldn't the flagger be in front of the downed hurt rider ? Not on the opposite side of the track ?
cali11
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3/23/2016 9:24am
So does this mea, he is going to retire and go Nascar racing if he doesn't get his points back?
Johnny Depp
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3/23/2016 9:25am
Ozzy wrote:
I like Kevin & John. I've worked with them all over the yrs & respect them. But seriously, did you think for 1 minute anything against...
I like Kevin & John.
I've worked with them all over the yrs & respect them.
But seriously, did you think for 1 minute anything against themselves would be said or admitted?
Shame on this interview for thinking so.
It's a Flawed System, Period.
There's Reasonable Doubt even in his replies here!! Calling the Kettel Black will never go anywhere.
This whole deal is on them I'm afraid, of another bad call & decision.
Police policing themselves changes nothing & from yrs of this, the Song Remains the Same!!
1 agrees & like water the other follows.
Heard this over & over!!
Unfortunately nothing will really change until such time.
#2LooseyGoosey
#TheirWayortheHWY

& why didn't they, KTM, Protest?
Simple...
KTM & HUSKY ARE 1
I can Guarantee you, if this involved a Horse of another color, other than White, this whole thing would've been Protested

The AMA has outlived it's usefulness. Because they are in a position of power no one can dislodge them.

They are just like the FIM and Ecclestone. Follow the money.
cali11
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3/23/2016 9:26am
Shouldn't the flagger be in front of the downed hurt rider ? Not on the opposite side of the track ?
I would think they would have to be in front of the jump. What good would it do to be in front of the down rider?
toroP
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3/23/2016 9:29am
" ... maybe he didn't see .......... it's his responsibility to see it"Blink
cali11
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3/23/2016 9:30am
toroP wrote:
" ... maybe he didn't see .......... it's his responsibility to see it"Blink
Then open his fucking eyes?
yak651
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3/23/2016 9:46am
dsmith wrote:
here's the statement that i got out if it that probably broke the camels back for the dunge ... So they checked up more than Dungey...
here's the statement that i got out if it that probably broke the camels back for the dunge ...

So they checked up more than Dungey did, from the race director’s perspective?
Yeah. In the video that we saw, Ryan didn’t check up at all. He was still in full attack mode through the whole section.
So the others "kinda" checked up which is "kinda" ok but he didn't check up at all as the flag was "kinda" out when he went by so he was punished fully and the others no punishment. Got it!
yak651
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3/23/2016 9:48am
Shouldn't the flagger be in front of the downed hurt rider ? Not on the opposite side of the track ?
cali11 wrote:
I would think they would have to be in front of the jump. What good would it do to be in front of the down rider?
To protect the rider from being ran into (i'm assuming he meant on the jump in front of the downed rider)
Slowdude
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3/23/2016 9:57am
Why should the riders have the responsibility of having to look around for the flags? They should be displayed in such a way that there is no doubt.

I can understand yellow or blue flags moving around, but for red cross flags there should be a designated spot for each section where that flag can/will be displayed. There is no reason this couldn't be standardized in SX. There doesn't seem to be anything to keep some jackleg from waving a red cross from the center of a triple.

Of course video of the incident would probably put this to bed.
NotCore
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3/23/2016 9:57am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 9:58am
You should not take the win away, this is where I agree with NASCAR, the fans should not find out the outcome after they leave. Have...
You should not take the win away, this is where I agree with NASCAR, the fans should not find out the outcome after they leave. Have it set up where fines and or points are deducted.


I like the idea of docking the points. Taking the win away was harsh, particularly in light of the fact that he was under no pressure for position.
jeffro503
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3/23/2016 9:59am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 10:04am
If I was Dungey or DeCoster...I'd be pissed that they endangered Dungey by not showing him ( In clear view ) the red cross flag. It doesn't only endanger the downed rider ,but the riders they are trying to show the flag to.

Possibly double up on the flaggers would be a good decision. Have them on both sides of the track and make sure when the red cross flag needs to be out , everyone see's it!

The flagger in this incident had the flag down by his hip , on the way inside of the corner , where Ryan was railing the far outside....how the hell was he going to see that?
3D
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3/23/2016 10:20am
If team KTM hasn't countered, that makes me believe there is clear video of the penalty. It sucks but if he jumped, he jumped. Bad timing is all. Split second stuff cost him.
MudPup545
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3/23/2016 10:22am
The flagger in this incident had the flag down by his hip , on the way inside of the corner , where Ryan was railing the far outside....how the hell was he going to see that? *from jeffro503*

I was there, saw where the flagger was positioned, noticed how the flag was being held/waved. I thought to myself," no way can anyone see that!!".
ACBraap
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3/23/2016 10:40am
cali11 wrote:
So does this mea, he is going to retire and go Nascar racing if he doesn't get his points back?
He could tell them he's going to take rest of the series off once he clinches.
Motofinne
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3/23/2016 10:43am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 11:37am
The big problem here is the fact that there was multiple riders jumping jumps when there were a red cross flag out on the track and there was zero penalties.

I have no proof of this statement but i would guess that there are riders jumping under the red cross flag every single sx round? Yet we never hear about any penalties besides Jason Anderson penalty this year.

That is the biggest problem. You can't, you just CAN'T take away a win(the first time ever someone has lost a win in SX history?) yet not punish other riders for exactly the same thing! It's a joke.
Racer142
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3/23/2016 10:46am
I still don't understand why the red cross was even flown? I was always under the impression the red cross was for riders that needed medical attention or the medical crew was on the track neither of which were the case here. Seems like a simple yellow would have been fine?
bents
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3/23/2016 11:24am
dsmith wrote:
here's the statement that i got out if it that probably broke the camels back for the dunge ... So they checked up more than Dungey...
here's the statement that i got out if it that probably broke the camels back for the dunge ...

So they checked up more than Dungey did, from the race director’s perspective?
Yeah. In the video that we saw, Ryan didn’t check up at all. He was still in full attack mode through the whole section.
Probably because he didn't....SEE THE FUCKING FLAG!! I was hoping to read a definitive answer to this penalty, but no such luck. That was a terrible series of responses. I am waiting for the clowns to come out and the juggling to start. I agree with NotCore-deduct 5 points, but not the win. This really was a circus.
Calihusky
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3/23/2016 11:54am
The AMA does not come off looking professional in all this. First off their rule book seems more vague than the tax code. So there's a guy holding the flag and whether he waves it slightly for no apparent serious injury or full on with an obvious downed rider the riders are supposed to get on the brakes. Even if it means casing a jump and possibly causing additional injuries. You can still go fast but you have "to act" like you are trying to check up. Worst of all Dungey gained absolutely no advantage in this situation and was under pressure from no one. The fans see him win and then wake up the next day finding out the AMA says he didn't based on a video that isn't being shown.

There needs to be lights around the track at jumps that will flash red when there is a Red Cross flag. They will apply to EVERYONE on the track so you are not penalized just because the flag is thrown in your section. The whole track is red lights like a caution. Imagine one guy with a flag on the side of a nascar track expecting cars whizzing past to see them. And then if they do check up the cars behind them don't see the flag and slam into the slow cars. No passing or jumping when red lights are out. The current rule is ridiculously subjective based on whether a flagger is able to alert the rider or not.
cali11
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3/23/2016 12:08pm
So the AMA thinks RD has tunnel vision?
slotsquid
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3/23/2016 12:12pm
Mr. Crowther needs to work on his public speaking... saying "To be honest with you" four times in a interview casts an uneasy feeling about the integrity of the topic discussed. Just sets off a few red flags (pun intended) for me.

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