Fabulous Four Strokes

Sidecar
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11/15/2016 11:00pm
magoo1982 wrote:
Back in mid 70s, Honda had Rocket Rex race a four stroke for a short time. I think it was based on xl 350 motor...
Back in mid 70s, Honda had Rocket Rex race a four stroke for a short time. I think it was based on xl 350 motor . Then late 70s Marty Moates raced one based on xl350 ???
Bearuno wrote:
Well do I remember a picture of Staten on the Honda 4t at the Snake River Canyon MX in MXA - with him completely sideways, mid...
Well do I remember a picture of Staten on the Honda 4t at the Snake River Canyon MX in MXA - with him completely sideways, mid air, with a caption along the lines of "handles good, don't it Rex?" I've been trying to find it for years now.

Moates rode a Knobby Shop International / KSI bike, in a couple of GPs - or, at least in Britain. I think he rode a Works Ossa 2T in a few GPs too.

The type Marty rode ( a re-furb by Rod Spry - check his site out, he does gorgeous work) :

A 'Modern' version of it, static, and being ridden (I think at a VMXDN a year or two ago) :
Bottom pic of the modern take on the ksi being raced is not at Farleigh, it's the Ken Hall trophy meeting at Manor Farm, Langrish, near the south coast and only about 15 mins from Matterley Basin.... Epic track with loads of history that after the meeting this past August might never see a bike turn a wheel ever again....
Sidecar
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11/15/2016 11:08pm
Some better pictures of Langrish.....






Bearuno
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11/15/2016 11:18pm
Sidecar wrote:
Bodgers and lunatics..... And I thought we were mates..... LaughingLaughingLaughing
Hey, I'm the first to put myself into that class of individual - I tilted at windmills for years with XR engines in RM and CR chassis, my own chassis, and now, ride CR500 2ts with WP front ends and PDS rear ends that I do myself :


I 'Delta Boxed' the std swingarm (those 2 little button head bolts you can see hold on 1mm thick covers as I ride in Rock City, and would slash my wrists if I tore up the new SA side plates) , but am trying Not to do a Trellis type swingarm like the 'SGB' above.
Bearuno
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11/15/2016 11:38pm Edited Date/Time 11/15/2016 11:41pm
Sidecar wrote:
Bottom pic of the modern take on the ksi being raced is not at Farleigh, it's the Ken Hall trophy meeting at Manor Farm, Langrish, near...
Bottom pic of the modern take on the ksi being raced is not at Farleigh, it's the Ken Hall trophy meeting at Manor Farm, Langrish, near the south coast and only about 15 mins from Matterley Basin.... Epic track with loads of history that after the meeting this past August might never see a bike turn a wheel ever again....
What from - typical Noise / Enviro issues, and /or the Club / owner being defeated by them?

I think I may have gone there - I recall going to a track quite near Matterley a week or two before a GP a few years ago.

The Shop

Sidecar
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11/16/2016 12:42am
Sidecar wrote:
Bottom pic of the modern take on the ksi being raced is not at Farleigh, it's the Ken Hall trophy meeting at Manor Farm, Langrish, near...
Bottom pic of the modern take on the ksi being raced is not at Farleigh, it's the Ken Hall trophy meeting at Manor Farm, Langrish, near the south coast and only about 15 mins from Matterley Basin.... Epic track with loads of history that after the meeting this past August might never see a bike turn a wheel ever again....
Bearuno wrote:
What from - typical Noise / Enviro issues, and /or the Club / owner being defeated by them? I think I may have gone there -...
What from - typical Noise / Enviro issues, and /or the Club / owner being defeated by them?

I think I may have gone there - I recall going to a track quite near Matterley a week or two before a GP a few years ago.
I think the farm is up forsale, possibly in lots so the track will be owned by different people.... Very sad as it's one of our best tracks and one of the only times that the top sidecars are at the same meeting as bikes in the UK.

Your CR looks trick, I like the swinging arm.... Why pds???
Bearuno
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11/16/2016 2:01am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2016 2:13am
Why PDS?

Because I can.

I've made frames / chassis since I was a kid.

And, I love simplicity, when done well.

I really liked a few later model PDS KTMs I rode with Ohlins TTX shocks, or WP Traxx shocks. I don't ride SX - I ride the bush and the occasional MX track, so a linear , rising rate (yes, I know, a contradiction of terms, but most with a brain will get what I mean) is perfect for Me , and the way I ride. I've worked with suspension since the 70s, and can do exactly what I want, with shocks / geometry / construction. I've made a lot of AFs / had a few, and am over them. Not that they aren't an incredibly cheap / easy way of keeping use of favoured old engines, what with fools that can't do basic 4t maintenance being so thick on the ground.

I've a better (to me, it's ever so slightly more progressive) geometry to the PDS than the KTMs - I've just checked the 17 2ts, and I feel my geometry of the shock is more progressive than those, and, I've an adjustable lower shock mount to boot for further changes, and, as I said, an TTX Ohlins, is a wonderful thing.



As an example, these mounts have Two different leverage ratios , and easily adjustable ride heights. I've all the std swingarm / linkage / subframe / airbox set aside that can be put back on in under an hour - No Butchering has taken place to any original parts. There's actually 4x 8mm bolts that hold the mount on, 2 from the top that you can see, two from the bottom at the rear :

Even with the re-do of the swingarm, and a whole new airbox, it comes out at about 5 / 6 lbs less in weight than the std linkage set up. If I ever make a whole new swingarm, it will be lighter again. Something to offset the extra lbs of the Panthera E start that's (hopefully) coming in a week or so. Legs are kaput, there's shitloads of cliffs that I stall / stop beside where I ride, so I need / dream of a magic button.

Even better, is that I can use the original linkage attachment points on the frame, to be the pivot point for a center stand - I loved them on bikes I had years ago. I can imagine readers here freaking out (even more) now....... Woohoo
magoo1982
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4/20/2016
Location
Miamitown, OH US
11/16/2016 2:11am
Reese95 , Bigfoot ,Sidecar .Bearuno , thanks for all great pics , also hope u find your collection would be a shame to miss out on all those great bikes...
Bearuno
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11/16/2016 2:58am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2016 3:10am
magoo1982 wrote:
Reese95 , Bigfoot ,Sidecar .Bearuno , thanks for all great pics , also hope u find your collection would be a shame to miss out on...
Reese95 , Bigfoot ,Sidecar .Bearuno , thanks for all great pics , also hope u find your collection would be a shame to miss out on all those great bikes...
They were my Dad's and Uncles. Never ours, though we, collectively, did a huge amount of work on them over the years.

We, my brothers and I, probably should have gathered them up (as Dad indicated we should) before he died, but we wanted them to be with him - he loved them so much, and spent his time in his huge workshop with them.

His last 'consort', didn't tell us (his family) of his death for a few weeks - all of we brothers were overseas at the time with work - and in that time, much of his property 'disappeared'. Including a collection of handcrafted (mainly British) Shotguns (Purdy's, Fabri's, Holland and Hollands, and others - I'm not up on guns - nothing against them, there's only just enough of my tiny brain to deal with 2 wheels) that was valued in the area of over a couple of Million $.

Hope to get them back - not at all for the money, that's all his consort would think of them being, and turn them into - but for the bikes (and guns) themselves, which we intend to keep forever / donate to the appropriate museums.

There's another 'C' word that would best describe Dad's consort, but I try to refrain from the use of it.
Bearuno
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11/16/2016 3:08am
Bigfoot wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/14/160122/s1200_5b19ccdb233f59f99f56e5310c7ee7bf.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/14/160123/s1200_MARKJENNINGS_1_730680.jpg[/img]




Sidecar - did you notice the Bevel Drive Ducati engined Sidecarcrosser in the background of the lower picture?

So there were at least 2 complete lunatics (far above / below the average lunatic Sidecarcrosser) , but luckily, separated by the Atlantic.
Sidecar
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11/16/2016 3:22am
Bearuno wrote:
Why PDS? Because I can. I've made frames / chassis since I was a kid. And, I love simplicity, when done well. I really liked a...
Why PDS?

Because I can.

I've made frames / chassis since I was a kid.

And, I love simplicity, when done well.

I really liked a few later model PDS KTMs I rode with Ohlins TTX shocks, or WP Traxx shocks. I don't ride SX - I ride the bush and the occasional MX track, so a linear , rising rate (yes, I know, a contradiction of terms, but most with a brain will get what I mean) is perfect for Me , and the way I ride. I've worked with suspension since the 70s, and can do exactly what I want, with shocks / geometry / construction. I've made a lot of AFs / had a few, and am over them. Not that they aren't an incredibly cheap / easy way of keeping use of favoured old engines, what with fools that can't do basic 4t maintenance being so thick on the ground.

I've a better (to me, it's ever so slightly more progressive) geometry to the PDS than the KTMs - I've just checked the 17 2ts, and I feel my geometry of the shock is more progressive than those, and, I've an adjustable lower shock mount to boot for further changes, and, as I said, an TTX Ohlins, is a wonderful thing.



As an example, these mounts have Two different leverage ratios , and easily adjustable ride heights. I've all the std swingarm / linkage / subframe / airbox set aside that can be put back on in under an hour - No Butchering has taken place to any original parts. There's actually 4x 8mm bolts that hold the mount on, 2 from the top that you can see, two from the bottom at the rear :

Even with the re-do of the swingarm, and a whole new airbox, it comes out at about 5 / 6 lbs less in weight than the std linkage set up. If I ever make a whole new swingarm, it will be lighter again. Something to offset the extra lbs of the Panthera E start that's (hopefully) coming in a week or so. Legs are kaput, there's shitloads of cliffs that I stall / stop beside where I ride, so I need / dream of a magic button.

Even better, is that I can use the original linkage attachment points on the frame, to be the pivot point for a center stand - I loved them on bikes I had years ago. I can imagine readers here freaking out (even more) now....... Woohoo
Wow, that's scary to think that you and your brothers might miss out on your Dads possessions I hope you find a way to right this wrong.
I'm with you with the simplicity of the pds, I think that simplicity is often better but is currently overlooked, do we the masses of charging round a muddy/dusty field masses really need a bike fit for SX or MXGP????

Anyhow that's for another thread, let's keep this thumper thread on track.

That alloy frame TTR mini posted by mx836 looks trick, what's the back story, is it a BBR???

Sidecar
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11/16/2016 3:28am
Bigfoot wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/14/160122/s1200_5b19ccdb233f59f99f56e5310c7ee7bf.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/14/160123/s1200_MARKJENNINGS_1_730680.jpg[/img]




Bearuno wrote:
Sidecar - did you notice the Bevel Drive Ducati engined Sidecarcrosser in the background of the lower picture? So there were at least 2 complete lunatics...
Sidecar - did you notice the Bevel Drive Ducati engined Sidecarcrosser in the background of the lower picture?

So there were at least 2 complete lunatics (far above / below the average lunatic Sidecarcrosser) , but luckily, separated by the Atlantic.
No I didn't spot that, good eye. I'v seen a couple of Ducati powered outfits.
I have a photo of a 1000cc Folan v twin powered EML sidecar at home, il post it later, it was at Langrish, the track I mentioned above about 15 years ago, they managed half a lap before a BIG crash resulting in a broken leg I think, long time ago now.... I wanted to buy it but no idea what happened to it, it went to mainland Europe I think.....
Wandell
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Cairo, GA US
11/16/2016 7:16am
I remember when the four stroke championship was a pretty big one off race and factory riders would show up with some exotic stuff. Like RJ on this TT600 and O'Mara on this XR500.





ruy
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España ES
11/16/2016 8:36am


Sidecar
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11/16/2016 10:44am
ruy wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/16/160260/s1200_61294_1633587123618_8343402_n.jpg[/img]


That's a 2 stroke.... Wrong thread Tongue
Sidecar
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11/16/2016 10:47am
Folan v twin, 1000cc's of awesome!!!!

Bearuno
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11/16/2016 3:32pm
One of my favourite builds by someone very talented / determined - a V Twin Mini Flat Tracker using 2 XR80 top ends:





You can find full build pictures of this, showing the engine cases being machined and the special internals.
Bearuno
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11/16/2016 3:35pm
Here's a 1980 CCM 500 TE :



And, in use:

Bearuno
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AU
11/16/2016 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2016 4:25pm
This is a terrible, little, fuzzy picture of Gerrit Wolsink behind one of his XR Hondas he used in the Six Days :



He did several Six Days, and on some very trick Honda 4ts with a few of them. Very trick as in looking to be full on works bikes, with completely different Frames / Coke Bottle type Swingarms / Plastics etc - but this is all I've been able to find on the 'net of him and an XR.

I think I might have this Jersey he's wearing, or one that he used in the Elba Six Days ( this pic may be from it?). I welded protection rails / loops into Murray Watts (Honest Muz) Husky CR125 he used ( I think it was the Elba Six Day - it's a long time ago). I basically replicated the type of engine protection the WR Huskies used at the time for him. He traded Gerrit for a Jersey, and gave it to me as thanks. It's languishing in a drawer somewhere, probably moth eaten. Must try to find it one day, though I've never been big on rider regalia nor autographs.
DMG
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US
11/16/2016 3:54pm
Wandell wrote:
[URL=http://s223.photobucket.com/user/WandellAsbell/media/SXcomOddities/tt600_zpsrhcog8i7.jpg.html][IMG]http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/WandellAsbell/SXcomOddities/tt600_zpsrhcog8i7.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s223.photobucket.com/user/WandellAsbell/media/SXcomOddities/tt600rj_zpsnsndiona.jpg.html][IMG]http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/WandellAsbell/SXcomOddities/tt600rj_zpsnsndiona.jpg[/IMG][/URL]






Those bikes were so trick
linker48x
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2/4/2015
Location
Anchorage, AK US
11/16/2016 5:50pm
one of my first race bikes, 1963 Parilla Wildcat.

ultra short wheelbase, radical cam, terrible carburetor, marginal ignition, a handful but very fast for the time, just before 2 stroke Husky and CZ 250's.
Oldnslo
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205
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CA US
11/27/2016 3:43am


I ride it a couple times a year .....Fun fun fun....
ns503
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Location
NS Toolies CA
11/27/2016 8:14am
Wandell wrote:
I remember when the four stroke championship was a pretty big one off race and factory riders would show up with some exotic stuff. Like RJ...
I remember when the four stroke championship was a pretty big one off race and factory riders would show up with some exotic stuff. Like RJ on this TT600 and O'Mara on this XR500.





That bottom pic - looks like he's kick starting it in mid air? That's kind of nutso.
1stSSPZ
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3/17/2014
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Lubbock, TX US
12/3/2016 6:32pm
RandyS wrote:
Not mine but I have my first bike just like it sitting in boxes waiting for time to restore In my opinion the most important 4...
Not mine but I have my first bike just like it sitting in boxes waiting for time to restore
In my opinion the most important 4 stroke dirt bike of all time.
It was for me!
2/1/2017 6:00pm
RRJR,
That's a nice KX250F! That the bike Huntley did with the TMR motor mods a few years ago?
Insert drool....
Phantom 661
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Torrance, CA US
2/28/2017 5:05pm
RandyS wrote:
Not mine but I have my first bike just like it sitting in boxes waiting for time to restore In my opinion the most important 4...
Not mine but I have my first bike just like it sitting in boxes waiting for time to restore
In my opinion the most important 4 stroke dirt bike of all time.
I had one of those. It was red and white and a year or two older by the looks of it. Very dependable.
rrjr
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11/1/2012
Location
CA US
2/28/2017 5:37pm
RRJR,
That's a nice KX250F! That the bike Huntley did with the TMR motor mods a few years ago?
Insert drool....
Yeah that's the same bike. 2013 KX250F. Bought it from Huntley a few months after he built it. Got it for my son. Great bike. Builder....not so much.



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