Excel Rims... Feels like butter??

Arkmx
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Arkmx
Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 3:25pm
.

Are rims theses day being made softer now, or are today's kids going down harder than they use too??

Zach bent his front wheel last month at Freestone, then Samuel (kids racing friend) bent his this past weekend at a LL's SC AQ at ROMP MX in Mo. Both results of the rider going down.

Anyone else "Taco-ing" any wheels lately??



Zach's front wheel at Freestone.







Samuel's front wheel at ROMP, with Zach checking out the bike.






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Whip
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Whip 4/23/2013 6:37am
4/23/2013 6:37am
I would also like to hear other peoples experiences with Excel rims.

Having been on KTM the past couple of years, I always get flat spots in each one of my Excel rims.

Has anyone used another brand which you feel is superior? Or are we just pushing the limits of rims in general?
ADynes
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ADynes 4/23/2013 6:39am
4/23/2013 6:39am
Looks like they both bent because of a broken spoke. Maybe the spokes are too tight? The tighter a spoke is tightened, the less load it can bear before failure. Also, a side hit (in a crash) puts way more stress on the spokes than normal loading.
RKExcel
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RKExcel 4/23/2013 6:46am
4/23/2013 6:46am
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results is a "softer" rim compared to aftermarket Excel rims. I cannot see enough of the Yamaha front rim to see the rim. If you want to email me better pictures we can take a look. All rims regardless of brand do have a lifespan and will not last forever. But there are also many contributing factors to a wheel taco, is the wheel laced correctly? Have the spokes been adjusted correctly (Too Loose, too tight)? Is there a problem with the hub? Did he land flat or land on rocks? Has the rim been used to it lifespan? All of these can contribute to a rim/hub failure.

From the pictures posted we cannot accurately determine the cause. But it does look like both bikes broke spokes in the process... Spoke failure can also cause a rim failure.

Feel free to call us to discuss your issues.

Best regards

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
760-732-3161 x 102 or call Cory at X 108
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reded
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reded 4/23/2013 6:59am
4/23/2013 6:59am
Can't get a much better response than that!

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vet323
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vet323 4/23/2013 6:59am
4/23/2013 6:59am
Don't want to get involved other than to say:

A complaint is made on a message board and someone from the company answers in less than 45 minutes-not too bad.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 4/23/2013 7:11am
4/23/2013 7:11am
99% of the time a bent rim comes from lack of spoke maintenence. When the spokes are not torqued evenly and checked often, forces from riding are not spread evenly across the rim.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/23/2013 7:35am
4/23/2013 7:35am
mxtech1 wrote:
99% of the time a bent rim comes from lack of spoke maintenence. When the spokes are not torqued evenly and checked often, forces from riding...
99% of the time a bent rim comes from lack of spoke maintenence. When the spokes are not torqued evenly and checked often, forces from riding are not spread evenly across the rim.
Yup!

At the San Felipe 250 my team-mate hit a huge-rock & flattened/dented a Rear Wheel: about 4" on chain-side/1" on brake side. The wheel would have come apart of it wasn't built right & constantly maintained. 18 x 1.85 Excel Takasago w/ stock Honda spokes & hub (CRF250X)

I've seen sooooo many wheel explosions due to bad, no or "wrong" maintainence (over-tightening can turn your wheel into a collapsing/folding nightmare).

Also, the newer OEM KTM rims aren't the same Excels that you're thinking they are...they're a cheaper rim that KTM specs & they've received plenty of complaints from the MXA crew. The last time I checked, it seemed Yamaha DOES use the good Excels...?

I've recently tested some DIDs built by RAD Mfg & they're pretty damn tough: a week of Baja prerunning & let a coupl'a those JCR fast-guys rode the bike during that time...out in the rock infested whoops of San Felipe...Excellent. No flat spots & they stayed true & spokes stayed snug. We're actually going to try an RAD wheel w/ stock Honda spokes (lighter than the Super HD spokes that they use). The RAD hubs seem to be more than up to the task, too.
Arkmx
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Arkmx 4/23/2013 7:58am
4/23/2013 7:58am
RKExcel wrote:
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results...
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results is a "softer" rim compared to aftermarket Excel rims. I cannot see enough of the Yamaha front rim to see the rim. If you want to email me better pictures we can take a look. All rims regardless of brand do have a lifespan and will not last forever. But there are also many contributing factors to a wheel taco, is the wheel laced correctly? Have the spokes been adjusted correctly (Too Loose, too tight)? Is there a problem with the hub? Did he land flat or land on rocks? Has the rim been used to it lifespan? All of these can contribute to a rim/hub failure.

From the pictures posted we cannot accurately determine the cause. But it does look like both bikes broke spokes in the process... Spoke failure can also cause a rim failure.

Feel free to call us to discuss your issues.

Best regards

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
760-732-3161 x 102 or call Cory at X 108
.

Farrah,
Thanks for quick reply and explanation of the OEM (softer) compared to aftermarket Excel Rims!

Not bashing the rims, just have not had this happen to myself (30+ years of racing) or of the boy's bike's in any of their previous crashes. Flat spots, yes. Tacos no.... The last time I broke any spokes was in back in 1982.

** As I mentioned in my original post both wheel tacos were the result of crashes. Zach's (Yam) in the 12 pack at Freestone. The KTM in a similar section at the track in Missouri.

Yam broke 3 or 4 spokes nipples in the crash. The KTM broke at least 6. Due the crashes. NONE of the spokes BROKE or pulled through the hub on either bike.

**** No Spoke Failure, the nipples broke due to the impact of the bike / wheel coming down at an angle etc. No loose / over tight spokes.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen after a crash?

Thanks again for the reply Farrah! I can send you more photos or rims (directly) if needed?

Jim.

.
RKExcel
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RKExcel 4/23/2013 8:17am
4/23/2013 8:17am
Yeah under a crash scenario, you never know what's going to end up happening. There isn't just one way wheels respond to crashes. I've seen horrific crashes where the rims come out just fine and I've seen crashes where the hit was so hard the rim broke in three places, all the spokes broke and the hub cracked (doesn't help they hit a stationary object).

Just make sure whatever brand of rim you replace them with, to make sure you have it laced properly to the OE recommended torque settings. You'll maximize the wheel strength when ALL your spokes are properly tightened. It's that sweet spot between not too loose and not too tight. Smile

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
CamP
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CamP 4/23/2013 8:29am
4/23/2013 8:29am
There are two kinds of rims. The kind that bend, and the kind that break. You don't want the latter.
GuyB
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GuyB 4/23/2013 9:10am
4/23/2013 9:10am
RKExcel wrote:
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results...
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results is a "softer" rim compared to aftermarket Excel rims. I cannot see enough of the Yamaha front rim to see the rim. If you want to email me better pictures we can take a look. All rims regardless of brand do have a lifespan and will not last forever. But there are also many contributing factors to a wheel taco, is the wheel laced correctly? Have the spokes been adjusted correctly (Too Loose, too tight)? Is there a problem with the hub? Did he land flat or land on rocks? Has the rim been used to it lifespan? All of these can contribute to a rim/hub failure.

From the pictures posted we cannot accurately determine the cause. But it does look like both bikes broke spokes in the process... Spoke failure can also cause a rim failure.

Feel free to call us to discuss your issues.

Best regards

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
760-732-3161 x 102 or call Cory at X 108
Thanks, Farrah. Smile
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 4/23/2013 9:13am
4/23/2013 9:13am
Farrah, classy response, not blowing smoke up anyone's ass taking the opportunity to promote product but rather giving a direct and honest answer. Other companies need to take note. I know what rims I'm buying next time I need a new one, and I was on the fence before.
newmann
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newmann 4/23/2013 9:54am
4/23/2013 9:54am
I've bought dozens of Excels over the years and always had good luck. The fact that I run them on a lot of 4 inch travel vintage bikes speaks volumes about the quality...Laughing

But since there is a rep dropping in, what are the absolute lightest ones available? 21x1.60 front and 18x1.85 rear. Thanks in advance!
slotsquid
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slotsquid 4/23/2013 9:57am
4/23/2013 9:57am
Oh... We need a picture of "Farrah"... I'm having a flashback to a certain poster I had in my room !
seth505
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seth505 4/23/2013 10:15am
4/23/2013 10:15am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2013 10:16am
I have had really positive experience with excel rims (takasago in my case). I have useds several sets laced to stock hubs with great results/long life. I'd like to try the A60 model next but not sure I can justify the cost when the takasago have worked well for me.
JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 4/23/2013 10:17am
4/23/2013 10:17am
nytsmaC wrote:
Farrah, classy response, not blowing smoke up anyone's ass taking the opportunity to promote product but rather giving a direct and honest answer. Other companies need...
Farrah, classy response, not blowing smoke up anyone's ass taking the opportunity to promote product but rather giving a direct and honest answer. Other companies need to take note. I know what rims I'm buying next time I need a new one, and I was on the fence before.
X2. If I was in the market for new rims, this kind of positive product backing and in a borderline proactive fashion like this is more effective than advertising. You clearly stand by your product! Having read this thread (below), it would be a no-brainer to buy Excel:

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Race-Shop,42/lower-cost-lower-quality-whe…
BigMX
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BigMX 4/23/2013 10:28am
4/23/2013 10:28am
I have excel A60 Rims, excel spokes with spline drive nipples and RAD Eagle light weight hubs. I weigh around 220 lbs. I over jumped an 80' jump by around 20 feet and landed in a big hole. The impact knocked me unconscious. Ended up with one broken spoke but the rims were perfect. Sold me on excel for life Smile

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2T42
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2T42 4/23/2013 10:39am
4/23/2013 10:39am
I have Excel Pro series wheels with the heavy duty spline nipples.

They are the ONLY rims I have ever had in 25 years that I did not have to continually retighten spokes and I dont have a single dent in mine. They have taken a beating.
RKExcel
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RKExcel 4/23/2013 10:45am
4/23/2013 10:45am
HAHA!
Thanks for the comments.
There's fine line between keeping the rim light while maintaining strength. For the sizes you're asking about the Front 21x1.60 weight is 3.4 lbs for Excel Takasago Signature Series. For the rear: 18x1.85 weight is 3.6 lbs (average) Excel Takasago Signature Series. The Excel A60 is slightly heavier by 2 grams. Weight will vary slightly depending on how many spoke holes the rim has.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
DrSweden
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DrSweden 4/23/2013 12:12pm
4/23/2013 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2013 2:14pm
I dig the excel because of the price and color options, and they seems harder than some OEM D.I.Ds. Only downside are that the Excels are a bit on the heavy side compared to stock D.I.Ds, I think we talke about 200-300 grams diff, but that's the price to get more strength I guess.

Any CRF or CR owner probably knows what I'm talking about. I have experienced dents way to fast while Excel hold up way better.

But I know shit.
newmann
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newmann 4/23/2013 12:49pm
4/23/2013 12:49pm
DrSweden wrote:
I dig the excel because of the price and color options, and they seems harder than some OEM D.I.Ds. Only downside are that the Excels are...
I dig the excel because of the price and color options, and they seems harder than some OEM D.I.Ds. Only downside are that the Excels are a bit on the heavy side compared to stock D.I.Ds, I think we talke about 200-300 grams diff, but that's the price to get more strength I guess.

Any CRF or CR owner probably knows what I'm talking about. I have experienced dents way to fast while Excel hold up way better.

But I know shit.
Stock DID's have always been marginal at best. The early Honda Elsinores cracked and flat spotted with amazing regularity, and finding a nice or NOS set today doesn't make them any more dependable than thirty years ago. But, I am putting together all the pieces for a lightweight early CR125 and may even end up going with one of the stock 74-75 CR125 DID 21x1.40 front rims. They were way skimpy and that usually means way lightweight.Wink
dak446
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dak446 4/23/2013 1:42pm
4/23/2013 1:42pm
RKExcel wrote:
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results...
The KTM bike is running the OE Excel Rims. The OEs choose not use the same material as aftermarket Excel Rims due to cost. This results is a "softer" rim compared to aftermarket Excel rims. I cannot see enough of the Yamaha front rim to see the rim. If you want to email me better pictures we can take a look. All rims regardless of brand do have a lifespan and will not last forever. But there are also many contributing factors to a wheel taco, is the wheel laced correctly? Have the spokes been adjusted correctly (Too Loose, too tight)? Is there a problem with the hub? Did he land flat or land on rocks? Has the rim been used to it lifespan? All of these can contribute to a rim/hub failure.

From the pictures posted we cannot accurately determine the cause. But it does look like both bikes broke spokes in the process... Spoke failure can also cause a rim failure.

Feel free to call us to discuss your issues.

Best regards

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
760-732-3161 x 102 or call Cory at X 108
With regard to the first through third sentences, I have a question. Do you mean that all rims labeled 'Excel Takasago' on a stock bike, regardless of manufacturer, are in fact different than the rims you get when you purchase aftermarket 'Excel Takasago' rims? Or are the KTM OE rims built by Excel but not labeled similarly to the aftermarket rims ( I don't know because I haven't looked closely at a KTM wheel).


Like everyone else said, thanks for the straight-shooting responses.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 4/23/2013 2:18pm
4/23/2013 2:18pm
DrSweden wrote:
I dig the excel because of the price and color options, and they seems harder than some OEM D.I.Ds. Only downside are that the Excels are...
I dig the excel because of the price and color options, and they seems harder than some OEM D.I.Ds. Only downside are that the Excels are a bit on the heavy side compared to stock D.I.Ds, I think we talke about 200-300 grams diff, but that's the price to get more strength I guess.

Any CRF or CR owner probably knows what I'm talking about. I have experienced dents way to fast while Excel hold up way better.

But I know shit.
newmann wrote:
Stock DID's have always been marginal at best. The early Honda Elsinores cracked and flat spotted with amazing regularity, and finding a nice or NOS set...
Stock DID's have always been marginal at best. The early Honda Elsinores cracked and flat spotted with amazing regularity, and finding a nice or NOS set today doesn't make them any more dependable than thirty years ago. But, I am putting together all the pieces for a lightweight early CR125 and may even end up going with one of the stock 74-75 CR125 DID 21x1.40 front rims. They were way skimpy and that usually means way lightweight.Wink
Ha! If you fail finding a set, I guess a grinder and two hours of work would do the trick to the above brand! Grinning
How is that SX150 working for ya? Any vids, you still using it, or you change bikes like some change their underwear?Silly
RKExcel
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RKExcel 4/23/2013 2:43pm
4/23/2013 2:43pm
Sorry for the delay in getting back with you Dak446.
To answer your question about identifying a stronger rim by the logo, its a bit more complicated than that. For example some stock Yamaha rims say Excel Takasago Rims just like the Excel aftermarket. However we can tell the difference between OE and aftermarket by the color of the logo. Yamaha usually uses a blue logo for some models. No aftermarket Excel rim will have a blue logo. We can also tell the difference by the part numbers stamped on the rims themselves. Sometimes you can also tell by the number of logos on the rims. All aftermarket Excel rims will have two logos per side for a total of four per rim. Most OE's usually only put one logo on each side for a total of two per rim.

Both Excel and DID supply the OEs with stock rims for various models. Even if the rim isn't marked with the Excel or DID logo, it still may be an Excel or DID rim. Manufacturers usually have to pay slightly more for logo use. Similar to the Renthal handle bars that now come on many stock bikes.

Hope that answers your question.
Cheers

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
louis.bernard.564 4/23/2013 2:44pm
4/23/2013 2:44pm
vet323 wrote:
Don't want to get involved other than to say: A complaint is made on a message board and someone from the company answers in less than...
Don't want to get involved other than to say:

A complaint is made on a message board and someone from the company answers in less than 45 minutes-not too bad.
+1
dak446
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dak446 4/23/2013 2:55pm
4/23/2013 2:55pm
RKExcel wrote:
Sorry for the delay in getting back with you Dak446. To answer your question about identifying a stronger rim by the logo, its a bit more...
Sorry for the delay in getting back with you Dak446.
To answer your question about identifying a stronger rim by the logo, its a bit more complicated than that. For example some stock Yamaha rims say Excel Takasago Rims just like the Excel aftermarket. However we can tell the difference between OE and aftermarket by the color of the logo. Yamaha usually uses a blue logo for some models. No aftermarket Excel rim will have a blue logo. We can also tell the difference by the part numbers stamped on the rims themselves. Sometimes you can also tell by the number of logos on the rims. All aftermarket Excel rims will have two logos per side for a total of four per rim. Most OE's usually only put one logo on each side for a total of two per rim.

Both Excel and DID supply the OEs with stock rims for various models. Even if the rim isn't marked with the Excel or DID logo, it still may be an Excel or DID rim. Manufacturers usually have to pay slightly more for logo use. Similar to the Renthal handle bars that now come on many stock bikes.

Hope that answers your question.
Cheers

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc
Thanks for the reply, and that does answer my question. I tend to think that is shady (at best) marketing on both the OEM's and Excel's part, however. If it is marked (almost) identically as identified by the consumer, but they are different with regard to structural stability, etc. , something is wrong. The consumer thinks he's getting the equivalent of an aftermarket Excel Takasago rim, but he's actually getting a compromised version of it.

Thanks again for the quick reply, and I know where I'll be spending my money when it comes time to buy aftermarket rims!
RKExcel
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RKExcel 4/23/2013 3:17pm
4/23/2013 3:17pm
Dak446, yes I understand your position. However, a logo on an OE rim does help the consumer identify that the rims are made by a reputable brand be it Excel or DID.
Cheers

Farrah Bauer
Marketing & Advertising Manager
RK Excel America Inc.
ford832
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ford832 4/23/2013 4:36pm
4/23/2013 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2013 4:38pm
Kudo's to Farrah for coming on here with all the info and even replying to op so quickly in the first place.
That said,I have to admit I'm more than a little surprised that OE rims marked "Excel" aren't up to the quality of a regular Excel rim,as dak446 said.Any of mine marked as such was somewhat of a selling feature due to the perceived quality of the part.
I wasn't aware substandard parts commonly were allowed to use the name/logo of high end parts.Maybe I'm just too naive.Sad
newmann
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newmann 4/23/2013 4:46pm
4/23/2013 4:46pm
Don't know that I would go to the point of calling anything substandard. Lots of mfgs. make more than one product offered at more than one price point. I would agree that it would help to identify exactly which rim you are getting.

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