Euro exhausts at the USGP

reded
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5/26/2011 8:20am
cpj36 wrote:
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's...
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's bike.

If he had a practice track near my back yard he'd just have to quiet down like the rest of us.

They can sell us a quiet bike and leave him alone.

You can't buy a dragster but even if you could, NHRA rules wouldn't apply on your street.

AMA pro rules don't apply to back yards.
Now your starting to come around.

As I stated earlier though, the sheep flock to the shepherd. If Dungeys bike is loud, every 17 yr old in America will think it's cool to have a loud bike and the quiet bike that they buy off the floor simply will not work.

If need be, they'll cut the end off of the damn silencer in order to make it loud. Trust me, I've seen kids do some stupid shit.

If quiet bikes are the norm, they will be perceived as cool and Everyone will do it.
cpj36
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5/26/2011 9:23am
reded wrote:
Now your starting to come around. As I stated earlier though, the sheep flock to the shepherd. If Dungeys bike is loud, every 17 yr old...
Now your starting to come around.

As I stated earlier though, the sheep flock to the shepherd. If Dungeys bike is loud, every 17 yr old in America will think it's cool to have a loud bike and the quiet bike that they buy off the floor simply will not work.

If need be, they'll cut the end off of the damn silencer in order to make it loud. Trust me, I've seen kids do some stupid shit.

If quiet bikes are the norm, they will be perceived as cool and Everyone will do it.
That's what police are for, people remove mufflers from cars too and get ticketed. I've been saying for pages that production bikes should be quieter.

The pros have already been louder than production bikes and if they changed the rule today and let them do whatever, by freestone they would be much louder than anything we could buy, and that wouldn't have to have anything to do with production db at all.

You guys may be right, I don't know what the reasoning is, I'm just speculating on possible justification to mess with the pros and very few scenarios make sense. Every other motorsport goes out of it's way to differentiate pro from amateur competition, I'm just wondering why AMA FIM doesn't in regard to sound?

Nascar doesn't try to justify local joe blow when it's called to defend the commotion Daytona causes a few times a year, even if it's nascar sanctioned, they leave them to live with rules in that locale.

And they could put the pros on electric bikes and we'll still never eliminate people from doing something that causes their bike to produce too much noise at the local level. Sound testing at an amateur nat would be good comedy though.
500guy
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5/26/2011 9:24am
cpj36 wrote:
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's...
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's bike.

If he had a practice track near my back yard he'd just have to quiet down like the rest of us.

They can sell us a quiet bike and leave him alone.

You can't buy a dragster but even if you could, NHRA rules wouldn't apply on your street.

AMA pro rules don't apply to back yards.
reded wrote:
Now your starting to come around. As I stated earlier though, the sheep flock to the shepherd. If Dungeys bike is loud, every 17 yr old...
Now your starting to come around.

As I stated earlier though, the sheep flock to the shepherd. If Dungeys bike is loud, every 17 yr old in America will think it's cool to have a loud bike and the quiet bike that they buy off the floor simply will not work.

If need be, they'll cut the end off of the damn silencer in order to make it loud. Trust me, I've seen kids do some stupid shit.

If quiet bikes are the norm, they will be perceived as cool and Everyone will do it.
Wrong

People do what they are forced to do. If sound gets less then the people who hate dirt bikes will complain about dust, trash, erosion and the list goes on.

Sound limits in pro racing will affect sound at local tracks about 1% , not enough to put a pimple on a bugs ass.
jamma10
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5/26/2011 9:37am
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each year at the MXdN and future cross over events such as a combined USGP/AMA National.

Why does it matter so much to you or I if the Pro's bikes are ever so slightly quieter? Who noticed the difference at Colorado last year?

The Shop

cpj36
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5/26/2011 9:54am
jamma10 wrote:
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each...
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each year at the MXdN and future cross over events such as a combined USGP/AMA National.

Why does it matter so much to you or I if the Pro's bikes are ever so slightly quieter? Who noticed the difference at Colorado last year?
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway.

If that's the case though, need to do away with the ama production rule as well. A level playing field isn't to have quiet production rule bikes vs quiet works bikes.

If you could tell neighbors we'll cut out all the weekly noise if we can make all the noise we want one weekend a year, I think they'd be happy. The weekly bullshit is what has the sport in trouble, not one more weekend of the same.
reded
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5/26/2011 9:58am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2011 10:01am
jamma10 wrote:
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each...
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each year at the MXdN and future cross over events such as a combined USGP/AMA National.

Why does it matter so much to you or I if the Pro's bikes are ever so slightly quieter? Who noticed the difference at Colorado last year?
cpj36 wrote:
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway. If that's the case though, need to do away with...
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway.

If that's the case though, need to do away with the ama production rule as well. A level playing field isn't to have quiet production rule bikes vs quiet works bikes.

If you could tell neighbors we'll cut out all the weekly noise if we can make all the noise we want one weekend a year, I think they'd be happy. The weekly bullshit is what has the sport in trouble, not one more weekend of the same.
So you're willing to give up your right to ride for the rest of the year in order to go to 1 National Event?

Pro racing must really be your cookies and milk......
jamma10
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5/26/2011 10:22am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2011 10:24am
jamma10 wrote:
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each...
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each year at the MXdN and future cross over events such as a combined USGP/AMA National.

Why does it matter so much to you or I if the Pro's bikes are ever so slightly quieter? Who noticed the difference at Colorado last year?
cpj36 wrote:
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway. If that's the case though, need to do away with...
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway.

If that's the case though, need to do away with the ama production rule as well. A level playing field isn't to have quiet production rule bikes vs quiet works bikes.

If you could tell neighbors we'll cut out all the weekly noise if we can make all the noise we want one weekend a year, I think they'd be happy. The weekly bullshit is what has the sport in trouble, not one more weekend of the same.
Its not just about the 12 or so Nationals though is it, what about the hours of practice the riders put in during the week - sure some of them have their own private tracks but they do use public practice tracks occasionally.

What's more, while there may only be a National or GP held once a year on a particular track, the likelihood is that the locals have to endure numerous other amateur races throughout the year, either on the same track or others close by. The locals don't give a shit when the Pro's are racing, its all the same to them; noisy & irritating.

Its just a preventative measure to help reduce the growing number of complaints. Noise is a huge problem for our sport and we need to safeguard it at the grass roots level in order to protect the healthy standard at the top. Without local tracks where are the kids going to learn how to ride?
cpj36
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5/26/2011 10:37am
reded wrote:
So you're willing to give up your right to ride for the rest of the year in order to go to 1 National Event? Pro racing...
So you're willing to give up your right to ride for the rest of the year in order to go to 1 National Event?

Pro racing must really be your cookies and milk......
I'm just not sure what one has sto do with the other, the problem is without a doubt the people that ride all other times of the year but you can lower production db rating without lowering limits for the pros.

I'm suggesting that producing quieter bikes for public each week is the solution to the noise issues but that can be done without also imposing those restrictions on the pros. And I'm not understanding the justification to make the pros do the same as us.
cpj36
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5/26/2011 10:39am
jamma10 wrote:
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each...
Incase you guys missed it, part of the reasoning behind standardizing the AMA/FIM regulations is to level the playing field and reduce the hurdles encountered each year at the MXdN and future cross over events such as a combined USGP/AMA National.

Why does it matter so much to you or I if the Pro's bikes are ever so slightly quieter? Who noticed the difference at Colorado last year?
cpj36 wrote:
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway. If that's the case though, need to do away with...
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway.

If that's the case though, need to do away with the ama production rule as well. A level playing field isn't to have quiet production rule bikes vs quiet works bikes.

If you could tell neighbors we'll cut out all the weekly noise if we can make all the noise we want one weekend a year, I think they'd be happy. The weekly bullshit is what has the sport in trouble, not one more weekend of the same.
jamma10 wrote:
Its not just about the 12 or so Nationals though is it, what about the hours of practice the riders put in during the week -...
Its not just about the 12 or so Nationals though is it, what about the hours of practice the riders put in during the week - sure some of them have their own private tracks but they do use public practice tracks occasionally.

What's more, while there may only be a National or GP held once a year on a particular track, the likelihood is that the locals have to endure numerous other amateur races throughout the year, either on the same track or others close by. The locals don't give a shit when the Pro's are racing, its all the same to them; noisy & irritating.

Its just a preventative measure to help reduce the growing number of complaints. Noise is a huge problem for our sport and we need to safeguard it at the grass roots level in order to protect the healthy standard at the top. Without local tracks where are the kids going to learn how to ride?
Again, exactly what I'm saying. They don't give a shit about one day a year when they get the same every other weekend of the year so all we need to do is make quieter production bikes.
jamma10
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5/26/2011 11:10am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2011 11:17am
cpj36 wrote:
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway. If that's the case though, need to do away with...
Shouldn't be any restrictions for that race, never really know who, if anyone is going anyway.

If that's the case though, need to do away with the ama production rule as well. A level playing field isn't to have quiet production rule bikes vs quiet works bikes.

If you could tell neighbors we'll cut out all the weekly noise if we can make all the noise we want one weekend a year, I think they'd be happy. The weekly bullshit is what has the sport in trouble, not one more weekend of the same.
jamma10 wrote:
Its not just about the 12 or so Nationals though is it, what about the hours of practice the riders put in during the week -...
Its not just about the 12 or so Nationals though is it, what about the hours of practice the riders put in during the week - sure some of them have their own private tracks but they do use public practice tracks occasionally.

What's more, while there may only be a National or GP held once a year on a particular track, the likelihood is that the locals have to endure numerous other amateur races throughout the year, either on the same track or others close by. The locals don't give a shit when the Pro's are racing, its all the same to them; noisy & irritating.

Its just a preventative measure to help reduce the growing number of complaints. Noise is a huge problem for our sport and we need to safeguard it at the grass roots level in order to protect the healthy standard at the top. Without local tracks where are the kids going to learn how to ride?
cpj36 wrote:
Again, exactly what I'm saying. They don't give a shit about one day a year when they get the same every other weekend of the year...
Again, exactly what I'm saying. They don't give a shit about one day a year when they get the same every other weekend of the year so all we need to do is make quieter production bikes.
What I meant was, locals don't make a distinction or give special dispensation to a pro. They don't care if the constant, droning noise from over the hill is coming from Ryan Dungey racing a National or Joe Bloggs tearing round on his pride and joy. 4strokes are loud and obtrusive to everyone not interested in motocross and they even annoy many people that are!

As long as riders like Dungey are running loud, after market exhausts then Joe Bloggs and millions of other amateurs will continue to want to use them too. They rarely sound test at amateur races or practice tracks and thats where it matters most. How do you police that?

If you make everyone conform to the same ruling, the exhaust manufacturers will stop producing unnecessarily loud pipes and you erradicate, or at least help to reduce complaints for everyone involved, therefore protecting the sport.

The difference in performance a stupidly loud exhaust makes is minute, but the impact is massive.
reded
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5/26/2011 11:55am
I'm glad there's 3 of us in this 4 page thread who have the common sense to understand what you just wrote. It's no wonder this sport has so many problems....Christ!!
cpj36
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5/26/2011 6:20pm
jamma10 wrote:
What I meant was, locals don't make a distinction or give special dispensation to a pro. They don't care if the constant, droning noise from over...
What I meant was, locals don't make a distinction or give special dispensation to a pro. They don't care if the constant, droning noise from over the hill is coming from Ryan Dungey racing a National or Joe Bloggs tearing round on his pride and joy. 4strokes are loud and obtrusive to everyone not interested in motocross and they even annoy many people that are!

As long as riders like Dungey are running loud, after market exhausts then Joe Bloggs and millions of other amateurs will continue to want to use them too. They rarely sound test at amateur races or practice tracks and thats where it matters most. How do you police that?

If you make everyone conform to the same ruling, the exhaust manufacturers will stop producing unnecessarily loud pipes and you erradicate, or at least help to reduce complaints for everyone involved, therefore protecting the sport.

The difference in performance a stupidly loud exhaust makes is minute, but the impact is massive.
You guys just keep making my point for me. I'm sure they don't care who's making the noise but just like other sports, making a lot of noise once a year is a hell of a lot different than making a lot of noise every weekend.

No matter how you try to spin it, it's much easier to continue having a loud race once a year if we're quiet every other weekend. All the sound limit will do is quiet that one weekend and the rest will be the same.

No you can't police amateur or practice tracks but you can't do that no matter what you mandate, people will still get louder than ama regulated pipes for anything that doesn't require a sound test and they wont repack them either.

You think there wont be a market for louder than spec pipe for the majority of riders that'll never be anywhere near a sound test? Because the pros are quieter nobody will sell a pipe to replace an even more restrictive stocker?

As far as wanting to be loud because a pro is, Joe Blogg already can't have anything on Dungey's bike so he can want in one hand and shit in the other, all he can do is what he already does, buy a pipe that wont be sound tested and not rebuild his muffler like everyone else. AMA sound testing wont stop the local problem as you already pointed out, can't police it.

What you propose is what we already have, once a year the bikes will be quiet, rest of the year people will neglect their stock mufflers and/ or replace them with a louder aftermarket pipe because they aren't ever going to a sound test. And it wont matter to neighbors that the pro race is quiet.
cpj36
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5/26/2011 6:34pm
reded wrote:
I'm glad there's 3 of us in this 4 page thread who have the common sense to understand what you just wrote. It's no wonder this...
I'm glad there's 3 of us in this 4 page thread who have the common sense to understand what you just wrote. It's no wonder this sport has so many problems....Christ!!
You can put whatever you want on a new bike and people will do what they already do now, neglect it and let it get louder or replace it with something louder. No matter what you impose on the pro class you won't make people adhere to the same.

Granted, leaving the pros alone wont change local habits either but the point is, we can what other sports do. There's plenty of circle track and dragways that mandate something to restrict sound for everyone except the handfull that make up the fastest division in the sport.
The Rock
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5/27/2011 10:21am
Few points:

1) Millsaps factory Honda came within a whisker of getting Nico Izzi's practice track shut down so those of you who subscribe to the theory professional sound levels have nothing to do with the real world might want to reconsider. I also saw Josh Hill in 2010 leave one of the Anaheim races with his race bike in the back of his truck. He was going to practice on Sunday then return it to the race shop on Monday.

2) 2 M Max coming to AMA SX will probably have little impact on the consumer. For the last few years the standard has been 94 db but there are still a plethora of above 94 db pipes out there. Some mfgs meet this level with their normal exhausts while most utilize an insert to reach 94 db. I will bet you a dollar this will be the case after 2 M Max is here as well. Nothing to get excited about here folks....just move along.

3) Like everything in life sound compliance at the amateur level is a personal choice. If you believe in less sound equals more ground run a quiet pipe. If you believe there's no correlation then run what you want to......just let me know how you like that electric bike you'll be riding in the not too distant future.

Speaking of, someone told me KTM cancelled their electric bike. Is this true?
5/27/2011 10:29am
I vote for quieter factory bikes, at a close quarters track like Southwick it's crazy loud once the riders are spread out and there are wide open 450's on every part of the track. The national guys want loud bikes so they can hear theirs on the gate but if they were all made a little quieter they'd still be able to hear their own engine, maybe they some tips from Ashley Fiolek, I've never seen her stall on the start or loop out.
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5/27/2011 1:28pm
Great point Paul especially RE: Ashley Fiolek.

I'm also very surprised given Chad Reed's practice track experience some still cling to the misperception pro bikes don't need to be quiet. Opinions aside the reality is this is 2011 and not the 70s and urban sprawl is just about everywhere.

I'm just looking forward to the day the loud POS H-Ds are a thing of the past.

H-D South Park
5/27/2011 3:15pm
The whole auto racing noise thing is absurd. If you live or move within 10-15 miles of a speedway you KNOW. It's all over the area with signs, advertisements, Wal Mart's being decked out with more racing supplies. A MX track in the woods or privately owned land with an encroaching sub division is a little different. I saw what happens when you build a giant sub division of houses right next to Mosier Valley. It took one of our amateur programs largest events and forced it to move due to track closing. On the other token people were PAID to have their houses torn down to build Cowboys stadium some 20 miles away. The apartments that are left have to put up with noise maybe 10-15 times a year. The same can be said for these superspeedways and road courses. Amateur MX tracks and privately owned land operate year round though.
cpj36
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5/27/2011 4:35pm
The whole auto racing noise thing is absurd. If you live or move within 10-15 miles of a speedway you KNOW. It's all over the area...
The whole auto racing noise thing is absurd. If you live or move within 10-15 miles of a speedway you KNOW. It's all over the area with signs, advertisements, Wal Mart's being decked out with more racing supplies. A MX track in the woods or privately owned land with an encroaching sub division is a little different. I saw what happens when you build a giant sub division of houses right next to Mosier Valley. It took one of our amateur programs largest events and forced it to move due to track closing. On the other token people were PAID to have their houses torn down to build Cowboys stadium some 20 miles away. The apartments that are left have to put up with noise maybe 10-15 times a year. The same can be said for these superspeedways and road courses. Amateur MX tracks and privately owned land operate year round though.
In addition to some Sundays, Gainseville dragway runs every Wed night and Sat.

Atlanta dragway every Fri-Sat. They all run more often than most mx tracks, you only see the pros once a year.

Unlike their pro classes, you don't get to take the mufflers off unless they let you. They require all the rest of us behave, so they get to make all the noise they want that one weekend a year.

You know It actually makes sense that mx would be ass backwards on this. If you notice, we're having the problems, not the other sports that do the opposite and curtail the activities of the average racers so they can have an impediment free weekend for the pros.
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5/27/2011 4:41pm
cpj36 wrote:
In addition to some Sundays, Gainseville dragway runs every Wed night and Sat. Atlanta dragway every Fri-Sat. They all run more often than most mx tracks...
In addition to some Sundays, Gainseville dragway runs every Wed night and Sat.

Atlanta dragway every Fri-Sat. They all run more often than most mx tracks, you only see the pros once a year.

Unlike their pro classes, you don't get to take the mufflers off unless they let you. They require all the rest of us behave, so they get to make all the noise they want that one weekend a year.

You know It actually makes sense that mx would be ass backwards on this. If you notice, we're having the problems, not the other sports that do the opposite and curtail the activities of the average racers so they can have an impediment free weekend for the pros.
Good points.

My take is because our sport permits people to take the same machines that are raced to private/local tracks we're more exposed so we are not subject to the same rules and conditions.

NASCAR, Monster trucks, Moto GP machines etc are not used outside of their race venues for the most part. Our machines are frequently used outside of race venues.
cpj36
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5/27/2011 4:55pm
The Rock wrote:
Good points. My take is because our sport permits people to take the same machines that are raced to private/local tracks we're more exposed so we...
Good points.

My take is because our sport permits people to take the same machines that are raced to private/local tracks we're more exposed so we are not subject to the same rules and conditions.

NASCAR, Monster trucks, Moto GP machines etc are not used outside of their race venues for the most part. Our machines are frequently used outside of race venues.
I get what you're saying but the bikes we're buying and taking to the tracks aren't subject to AMA noise regs, that's the prob.
5/27/2011 5:19pm
cpj36 wrote:
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's...
I get that, but Dungey isn't going to be in my back yard and what they sell us doesn't have to be as loud as Dungey's bike.

If he had a practice track near my back yard he'd just have to quiet down like the rest of us.

They can sell us a quiet bike and leave him alone.

You can't buy a dragster but even if you could, NHRA rules wouldn't apply on your street.

AMA pro rules don't apply to back yards.
CPJ,

Just wondering, why do you care one way or the other if a Pro's bike is loud. What are the positives to the pro bike being loud? Why is it a good thing to have them loud? How will it impact you, personally, if the pro bikes at a national are 2db quieter?

Mike
cpj36
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5/27/2011 6:10pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
CPJ, Just wondering, why do you care one way or the other if a Pro's bike is loud. What are the positives to the pro bike...
CPJ,

Just wondering, why do you care one way or the other if a Pro's bike is loud. What are the positives to the pro bike being loud? Why is it a good thing to have them loud? How will it impact you, personally, if the pro bikes at a national are 2db quieter?

Mike
Doesn't matter to me at all, I think 450's sound like shit and 250's like shit and too loud. I was close to a PC 250 cleaning out on the line once and liked it but a 4 stk is just about the worst thing I've ever heard.

It would have a positive impact on me, I'd like to be able to talk to someone next to me watching a 250 moto but people say that about drag racing too.

I'm sure some like it, I like the sound of race cars and dragsters but like many others I wouldn't be as interested in NHRA if it wasn't the loudest sport on the planet. just part of the appeal.

I think Mitch covered the positives, just as the riders do repeatedly. I think a better question is why does it matter if they're 2db louder once a year?
The Rock
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5/27/2011 11:43pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2011 11:49pm
cpj36 wrote:
https://youtu.be/2tg6RDUFQJ4

This is just about loud enough for professional motorsports. We have a way to go.
I hear you. My neighbor's kid has a top fueler and was driving that thing up and down PCH in Hermosa today. It was driving me nuts! Kid was doing wheelies wasn't wearing a helmet the whole deal. :-)

reded-Thanks for making good points in numerous posts.

Most of the 2011 bikes pass 94db which coincides with AMA Amateur Racing's limit dropping to 94db in 2011. You can rest assured 2 M Max won't be utilized in amateur competition for at least two years....to be clear this is my guess.

The other side of the coin is we shouldn't forget the teams can still skirt the rules electronically but that's another story.
cpj36
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5/28/2011 4:16am
The Rock wrote:
I hear you. My neighbor's kid has a top fueler and was driving that thing up and down PCH in Hermosa today. It was driving me...
I hear you. My neighbor's kid has a top fueler and was driving that thing up and down PCH in Hermosa today. It was driving me nuts! Kid was doing wheelies wasn't wearing a helmet the whole deal. :-)

reded-Thanks for making good points in numerous posts.

Most of the 2011 bikes pass 94db which coincides with AMA Amateur Racing's limit dropping to 94db in 2011. You can rest assured 2 M Max won't be utilized in amateur competition for at least two years....to be clear this is my guess.

The other side of the coin is we shouldn't forget the teams can still skirt the rules electronically but that's another story.
And I much prefer Antonio Cairoli riding in my back yard than I do Dungey, especially when he brings Carmichael and Townley with him. One day the entire fucking Red Bull team was here and I couldn't hear Herlings and Roczen over Dungey.
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5/28/2011 11:26am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2011 7:38pm
cpj36 wrote:
And I much prefer Antonio Cairoli riding in my back yard than I do Dungey, especially when he brings Carmichael and Townley with him. One day...
And I much prefer Antonio Cairoli riding in my back yard than I do Dungey, especially when he brings Carmichael and Townley with him. One day the entire fucking Red Bull team was here and I couldn't hear Herlings and Roczen over Dungey.
Touche'

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