Do shootouts really help for a C or D rider?

Excaliburbmx
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12/14/2015 5:22am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2015 7:15pm
Most people won't push a bike near what they will do and does shootouts really help sell bikes to lesser riders?
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OR Racer46
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12/14/2015 5:35am
Of coarse they do . Racing is like any other sport and that is to try and be better than your competition . There are loyalist that will stick with a brand no matter what even if it's the worst pos every built. They will buy it and try and explain why it is better than it is . Then you have Johnny head case that will change brands 5 times in a season and always have a excuse . For the average Joe I think they just like to see what's been improved on and what may be a problem area .
resetjet
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12/14/2015 6:02am
OR Racer46 wrote:
Of coarse they do . Racing is like any other sport and that is to try and be better than your competition . There are loyalist...
Of coarse they do . Racing is like any other sport and that is to try and be better than your competition . There are loyalist that will stick with a brand no matter what even if it's the worst pos every built. They will buy it and try and explain why it is better than it is . Then you have Johnny head case that will change brands 5 times in a season and always have a excuse . For the average Joe I think they just like to see what's been improved on and what may be a problem area .
amen....

For a slow rider though, I am not sure how much all that matters.....Suspension set up for you is really the key.
catatonic
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12/14/2015 6:18am
Things like useable power as opposed to light switch power can help a lesser rider make a decision.
ATKpilot99
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12/14/2015 6:19am
Most decent magazine tests will state which bike would work best for a novice rider but I agree , good dealer support is probably more important.

The Shop

lumpy790
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12/14/2015 6:20am
learning the traits of a bike is valuable to every skill level. Besides ... Mags often have lower level testers too.
Robgvx
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12/14/2015 6:35am
A good bike is a good bike. A good magazine/test riders will explain traits that best suit a particular ability of rider.
dcg141
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12/14/2015 6:53am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2015 6:53am
I will let you in on a little known secret. If you are not winning...its not the bike.
k cycle
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12/14/2015 7:02am
dcg141 wrote:
I will let you in on a little known secret. If you are not winning...its not the bike.
What? But the ads in the magazines say............... Smile
Spartacus
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12/14/2015 7:52am
They're just different colors are far as most riders are concerned despite the fact most think that their brand is the mostest bestest bike ever. Get your suspension set for your actual ability (not you VitalMX forum ability), Find a decent bar/seat/etc.set up and you'll be as fast (or slow) on any of them.

newmann
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12/14/2015 9:19am
I recently bought a pretty mint 1990 YZ250 just like the one I bought brand new back in the day. The thing is just a beast off the bottom and into the midrange, great for a old, fat and lower level rider. MXA had a pretty accurate test of it back then with good set up tips. Going to dig my old magazine out and use their tips again for this one.

Point is, if you pay attention to what MXA writes they are pretty accurate. Whether a bike wins the shootout or not means little to nothing if everything the winning bike does is wrong for you. Back when everyone called it Yamacross Action, they never raved about too much of anything overly excellent on the Yamahas, just that they did everything well. Buy what you want and set it up how you like.
mattyhamz2
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12/14/2015 10:25am
As a C rider I don't go off of what the mags say. Although if I did it would probably be what MXA has to say as for the most part I've had similar experiences with each bike I've ridden. I base what I get off of what I'd like to ride and the relationship I have with dealers. Kawi Suzuki and Yamaha dealerships I have great relationships with but I can't way the same about KTM/Husky and Honda.

I do wish that some of the magazines would bring in a C & D rider for the tests so it gives more of a common review. What I like as a C rider isn't the same as what an A&B rider like. Am I supposed to go off of whatever the faster/harder riders say? I won't be that speed in my lifetime. I'm 25 and have a family. My chances of getting to B and A have been long gone for 10 years. I'd have to figure the majority of guys reading the mags are D, C and lower B riders as well as Vet D-B riders.
Rotaholic
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12/14/2015 10:36am
I have never met anyone who rides a stock biike, once you add your preferance of bars, tires, grips, slip on and revalve the bikes change quite a bit. I dont think those mods are out of the ordinary. It really makes me laugh when they rake marks off for graphics and tires etc
Starcrossed
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12/14/2015 10:41am
When the bike you want gets great reviews in the magazines it reinforces the decision to buy it. If the reviews aren't so good and you really want the bike, you'll probably ignore the mags and get the bike anyway.
ML512
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12/14/2015 10:48am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
As a C rider I don't go off of what the mags say. Although if I did it would probably be what MXA has to say...
As a C rider I don't go off of what the mags say. Although if I did it would probably be what MXA has to say as for the most part I've had similar experiences with each bike I've ridden. I base what I get off of what I'd like to ride and the relationship I have with dealers. Kawi Suzuki and Yamaha dealerships I have great relationships with but I can't way the same about KTM/Husky and Honda.

I do wish that some of the magazines would bring in a C & D rider for the tests so it gives more of a common review. What I like as a C rider isn't the same as what an A&B rider like. Am I supposed to go off of whatever the faster/harder riders say? I won't be that speed in my lifetime. I'm 25 and have a family. My chances of getting to B and A have been long gone for 10 years. I'd have to figure the majority of guys reading the mags are D, C and lower B riders as well as Vet D-B riders.
I think the reason you don't see us commonly use a D or C rider for testing, is the lack of feedback that is given. It's extremely rare to find a lower caliber rider with in-depth feedback. Heck, it's hard to find experienced riders that can give decent feedback! Laughing
mb
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12/14/2015 11:00am
Send me some bikes, I'm slow as dirt but know exactly what's going on. I'll be rolling around the track thinking "need more rebound dampening in the shock" as a pack of 85's goes flying by Whistling
mattyhamz2
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12/14/2015 11:04am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
As a C rider I don't go off of what the mags say. Although if I did it would probably be what MXA has to say...
As a C rider I don't go off of what the mags say. Although if I did it would probably be what MXA has to say as for the most part I've had similar experiences with each bike I've ridden. I base what I get off of what I'd like to ride and the relationship I have with dealers. Kawi Suzuki and Yamaha dealerships I have great relationships with but I can't way the same about KTM/Husky and Honda.

I do wish that some of the magazines would bring in a C & D rider for the tests so it gives more of a common review. What I like as a C rider isn't the same as what an A&B rider like. Am I supposed to go off of whatever the faster/harder riders say? I won't be that speed in my lifetime. I'm 25 and have a family. My chances of getting to B and A have been long gone for 10 years. I'd have to figure the majority of guys reading the mags are D, C and lower B riders as well as Vet D-B riders.
ML512 wrote:
I think the reason you don't see us commonly use a D or C rider for testing, is the lack of feedback that is given. It's...
I think the reason you don't see us commonly use a D or C rider for testing, is the lack of feedback that is given. It's extremely rare to find a lower caliber rider with in-depth feedback. Heck, it's hard to find experienced riders that can give decent feedback! Laughing
I guess that's one point I may have over looked haha. Thanks!
MR. X
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12/14/2015 11:12am
ML512 wrote:
I think the reason you don't see us commonly use a D or C rider for testing, is the lack of feedback that is given. It's...
I think the reason you don't see us commonly use a D or C rider for testing, is the lack of feedback that is given. It's extremely rare to find a lower caliber rider with in-depth feedback. Heck, it's hard to find experienced riders that can give decent feedback! Laughing
That's a valid point ,but they could just go on lap times alone for the C and D riders. Although ,once they learn the track for the day ,the bikes tested last will have better lap times unless they go back and reride the first bikes.
lostboy819
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12/14/2015 11:41am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2015 12:12pm
edit wrong thread
Tarz483
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12/14/2015 12:53pm
I definetly think they do help for a C rider and for every one
To know and hear
What bike handles the best , corners , the best
Which is lightest , which one may suit taller or shorter
Riders better , which has more low end , mid range ,
Or top end , which bike is better suited to
Novice riders etc , i have considered a honda over the
Past couple of years just because the say
That it is more user friendly smooth easy to handle power
And light .
But weather it is a benifit or not i enjoy
Reading them.
also even though i have no intentions
Of ever being a pro
I feel it may help me decide which one i would be most
Comfortible with
And wich ones are more suited to faster riders
Which could be a handful for me.
Titan1
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12/14/2015 12:59pm
When I read shootouts, I'm not so interested in what bike finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th...I'm interested in what the riders say about the bikes: power delivery (more top end, more bottom end, etc.), weight, how heavy the feel, how the stock suspension works, etc. etc. I look past which bike was first in the shootout and which was last, and instead I look for the characteristics that I like in a motorcycle...Sometimes what I like, and go fast on, isn't going to be the bike that wins the shootouts.

And I think if more D and C riders would look at shootouts this way, they'd get more out of them (of course, as ML512 said, most D and C riders have no idea what they like and don't like because they have no idea what the bike is even doing anyway. lol). Anyway, thats the opinion from a rock solid mid-pack Vet A rider (off road). Smile
jeffro503
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12/14/2015 1:04pm
I've never really been brand loyal.

I always tell people to just get the bike they feel most comfortable on. Just sitting on one will give you a good idea on weather or not the bike feels comfortable. Sitting neutral and looking at anything and everything that you like or dislike. If you have a chance to test a new bike , test as many as you can before you make a purchase. You might find out that one of the brands you weren't expecting to feel good...feels great under you.

Some guys bleed different colors. It doesn't matter if their choice of bike took 1st or last in a shootout , because to them , the bike " feels right ".
ML512
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12/14/2015 1:08pm
Titan1 wrote:
When I read shootouts, I'm not so interested in what bike finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th...I'm interested in what the riders say about the...
When I read shootouts, I'm not so interested in what bike finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th...I'm interested in what the riders say about the bikes: power delivery (more top end, more bottom end, etc.), weight, how heavy the feel, how the stock suspension works, etc. etc. I look past which bike was first in the shootout and which was last, and instead I look for the characteristics that I like in a motorcycle...Sometimes what I like, and go fast on, isn't going to be the bike that wins the shootouts.

And I think if more D and C riders would look at shootouts this way, they'd get more out of them (of course, as ML512 said, most D and C riders have no idea what they like and don't like because they have no idea what the bike is even doing anyway. lol). Anyway, thats the opinion from a rock solid mid-pack Vet A rider (off road). Smile
This is the exact reason why I build my shootouts with all the rider's comments in their own separate sections, so you can see the individual thoughts on each bike.
Excaliburbmx
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12/14/2015 2:19pm
Who do you work for ml512 and who are you?
Cancerman
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12/14/2015 3:19pm
I use shootouts to get tech info and to compare a point by point comparison. You can also use the info to determine whether a fault or issue might be something you as both a rider and consumer, would rather not deal with. An example is I like the feel of the Suzuki chassis as it is easy to turn, and change direction with. With that comes a certain twitchy feeling that at first, is less than confidence inspiring. But if a test tells you how to minimize this with chassis balance, it's not really much of a negative anymore. In the past, a Kawasaki tracks like it's on rails, but to get to turn up the inside takes a lot of planning. But again, proper data on setup can minimize this. These kind of details in a shootout can really help you find which bike might fit you the best. Of course, the best thing you can do is ride what you are interested in, and ask a lot of questions. Unless you have a very favorite color. The rider comments along with their skill level is also helpful.
ML512
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12/14/2015 3:42pm
Who do you work for ml512 and who are you?
I work here...going on two years full-time... Do you ever visit the homepage? Laughing
MotoX85
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12/14/2015 3:52pm
I would even add, besides suspension reviews, you could probably add most B riders. And A riders are going to pick a bike that he is receiving the most support from.

So really they are for 40+ riders who think they have to have the latest and greatest thing, ala KTM FE's.

But I love reading them so keep them coming.

And ML512, yours are some of the better ones
gt80rider
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12/14/2015 4:08pm
There are a whole lot more C riders racing than A riders, always made me wonder why most shootouts only use fast guys.
Phillip_Lamb
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12/14/2015 4:13pm
back in 2006 i had the opportunity to ride the kx250f yz250f and crf250. i can tell the differences between all and that as far as the individual test are concerned they are helpful but i dont put stock into the actual shootouts because its just a matter of public opinion at that point.
ML512
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12/14/2015 4:27pm
gt80rider wrote:
There are a whole lot more C riders racing than A riders, always made me wonder why most shootouts only use fast guys.
Back to what I posted above.
Carlos Z
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12/14/2015 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2015 4:46pm
The shootouts absolutely help me decide. But a man has to know his limitations and read between the lines. Im a tall guy and went for the 16 Kawi 450. If i were under 6 feet I"d prolly get the honda.

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