Did crossfit demolish my hand/palm endurance?

rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 12:32am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2015 8:51am
Hi all,
I've been riding and training in the gym for a couple years now, although I'm not the fastest rider, I do have very good fitness on the track or the trail. I've been doing just basically normal gym stuff and trying to ride as much as I can, my hands never bothered me, I was always able to go on and on without feeling any pain or fatigue in my hands when gripping the handlebar - of course being loose up top and gripping with my legs.

The problem started in the last couple of rides - normal track, normal day, normal warmup, normal everything. but I just can't ride more than a minute or two without my hands fatiguing out. basically what's changed is my gym routine as I started crossfit just 3 weeks ago.
I have two suspicions basically:
1. Either I work out too much that my hands are simply tired, and a few days between crossfit and riding should make things ok (just like you'd let any muscle relax). this makes it almost impossible to build a weekly routine though..
2. the insane amount of hand/palm/wrist STRETCHING before every crossfit workout (which I do ~4 times a week) actually hurt my hand muscles. I know there are talks of stretching actually hurting performance.. but my crossfit coach insists that it's the best way to avoid injury (I think that science is against him in the last couple years on that).

Any information or thoughts will be greatly appreciated. I'm deeply frustrated from having my general fitness improve but my hands blocking me from doing my target sport.

Thank!
|
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 1:55am
Ok.. that's pretty retarded. thanks I guess
motokiwi
Posts
2842
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
2t4L, AL US
Fantasy
235th
5/12/2015 1:59am
a) are you taking creatine?

b) have you increased your grip strength?
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 2:11am
a. I'm not taking creatine. never took it.. I'm using some protein powder (which is basically food so not relevant) and BCAA
b. not sure how to judge that?

The Shop

5/12/2015 2:16am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 2:18am
rzs wrote:
Ok.. that's pretty retarded. thanks I guess
You're welcome.

BTW, Welcome aboard. Crossfit does cause a massive amount of injuries. Yanking too heavy a weight, poor form, all bad news.

Ever see a lion stretch before he wakes up from a dead sleep and bolts full sprint from a tree to catch a meal? No, they wake up stretch and go back to sleep.

Light stretching at the most, and 1-2 light sets(12-15 reps) before heavy work. That's all you need to warm up and get the blood flowing. Stretching is for girls, and gymnasts.

I see people go to the gym, stretch for 30 minutes, do 2 sets and leave. Waste of time. Ans Stretching makes alot of people weaker.

Don't waste money on BCAA's. Just get a good whey powder.



ts.p311
Posts
499
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
La Crosse, WI US
5/12/2015 2:47am
rzs wrote:
Ok.. that's pretty retarded. thanks I guess
Yes, crossfit is.
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 2:53am
Thanks Wasatch Rider, I bought the BCAA when I was doing Intermediate Fasting. I trained during the Fasting hours, so the recommendation was to consume BCAAs surrounding the workout time. I'm not IFing anymore, so I'm just using up the BCAA I bought.
Not using Whey as well because I'm vegan. I have Pea protein powder which is just as good. other than that my nutrition is point on, checking myself on chronometer etc'.

So anyway... you made me more suspicious about the wrist stretching. I felt it was too much right from the first session. I already gave up on wrist stretching in today's session.

ts.p311 well you certainly have the right to think so. there are huge objections to almost any training regime out there, but I'm trying it out to see where it gets me. I'm definitely improving on different kinds of fitness and conditioning via crossfit.
bear in mind that almost all the pro MX riders are using some kind of circuit training, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUxH7ARtvOI
this is not very different than crossfit.
hellion
Posts
1033
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Westfield, MA US
5/12/2015 3:19am
Some time ago on here somebody asked " if a person is a vegan who does crossfit, which one will he tell you about first?". So we finally have our answer, crossfit wins.

Seriously though, it sounds like your stretching is a bit much. Rest the wrists up for a week or two and see where you're at.
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 3:29am
yeah, that Smile as oppose to veganizm, you will not hear me preaching about crossfit. I do not care about it enough to fight about whether or not it's retarded or an amazing training regime. I can say however, as I mentioned in my previous reply, that from what I was able to gather about MX riders training - their circuit training is NOT much different from what we do at the crossfit box.

and about the stretching, we do sh*tloads of these:


* well maybe not sh*loads but definitely more than I care for.
bobojim
Posts
247
Joined
1/27/2015
Location
AU
5/12/2015 3:40am
RZS, ignore the "haters". There seems to be no shortage of them on Vital. Whatever gets you good time on the bike is good from my perspective. As for the issue, as above, a bit of trial and error. See what a rest from stretching does. From what I know, stretching will cause some "damage" to muscles just like exercise does. So it might be too much of a good thing. You also need to think about how much you cross fit coach knows about how it works for Motocross. Sounds like he is just driving his program - like coaches are trained to do - but something to consider.
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 3:53am
Thanks bobojim. I really don't want to waste energy on arguing about training regimes. I just opened the thread because I was utterly frustrated from the last two rides. I was hoping that I get some insight, maybe even get a reply from someone who suffered the same degradation of hand/palm endurance.
tek14
Posts
4572
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa FI
5/12/2015 4:16am
Many times hand problems come from anything but hands... legs or core is tired and you grip bike with your hands.
After longer gym period im riding not relaxed and hands get tired before i just ride more and get feeling back. Also had problems with right hand (too much gym+work+phone/pad) but after moved mouse to left hand, took some massages and hot/cold water treatment s to hand it did go away.

You could try to lighten up crossfit workouts just to get muscular balance right and after that add more weight and so on.
racerx221
Posts
391
Joined
4/30/2015
Location
CT US
5/12/2015 4:25am
mass amounts of estrogen and soy protein bro.
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 4:32am
racerx221 wrote:
mass amounts of estrogen and soy protein bro.
I hope you're kidding, otherwise you are putting your nutritional ignorance on display. Soy does not contain Estrogen, it contains Phytoestrogens which behave differently in the human body than estrogen. Hummus is another food that contains mass amounts of Phytoestrogens, and you don't see the Arabic world having problems with procreating now do you.

Regardless, I've been vegan for two years and only started having these issues in the last couple weeks since starting crossfit. regardless #2 - I hardly consume soy even as a vegan. probably not more than anyone eating an American diet.
racerx221
Posts
391
Joined
4/30/2015
Location
CT US
5/12/2015 4:39am
racerx221 wrote:
mass amounts of estrogen and soy protein bro.
rzs wrote:
I hope you're kidding, otherwise you are putting your nutritional ignorance on display. Soy does not contain Estrogen, it contains Phytoestrogens which behave differently in the...
I hope you're kidding, otherwise you are putting your nutritional ignorance on display. Soy does not contain Estrogen, it contains Phytoestrogens which behave differently in the human body than estrogen. Hummus is another food that contains mass amounts of Phytoestrogens, and you don't see the Arabic world having problems with procreating now do you.

Regardless, I've been vegan for two years and only started having these issues in the last couple weeks since starting crossfit. regardless #2 - I hardly consume soy even as a vegan. probably not more than anyone eating an American diet.
im a vagin, hence the estrogen intake. the soy just sounded good. now go make me some sort a veggie/fruit smoothy bro.
racerx221
Posts
391
Joined
4/30/2015
Location
CT US
5/12/2015 5:18am
no really, take the advice of a orthopedic doctor, not a bunch of people who may have stayed at a holiday inn express.
Camp332
Posts
8352
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Zoo Jersey US
5/12/2015 5:25am
You're overdoing it Bro.

Frodad78
Posts
2154
Joined
1/11/2012
Location
TX US
5/12/2015 5:27am
What else is your diet like?

I ask because a few months ago I cut gluten and processed sugar out of my diet. ( due to some other health issues). I was just getting back on the bike and I noticed my arms and hands felt great. Just over all fitness sucked. Well fast forward a few months later, I've been riding every weekend since and my stamina is great but my hands cramp up like a fucker. The only difference is this last month I moved and went back to eating like shit for about a month. Sugar, beer, bread all the shit I was avoiding. Can't say for sure if it has anything to do with it at all but I'm back on a clean diet so we'll see what happens next time I'm out riding, if it ever stops raining down here.

Years ago when I was racing I read somewhere, probably MXA, about cutting out processed sugar the week before a race to help with cramping. Seemed to help my arm pump alot back then, maybe something to it. Just thought I'd share my perspective.
Dtat720
Posts
1588
Joined
2/20/2015
Location
Flowood, MS US
5/12/2015 5:45am
Crossfit... LOL..... Hope you your deductable socked away with some good insurance and an even better ortho connection. Those programs are garbage.
rzs
Posts
10
Joined
5/12/2015
Location
IL
5/12/2015 5:53am
Frodad78 thanks man, that's interesting.. I'm on a mostly clean diet though. a lot of fruit sugar yes, but almost none processed. even when I do drink soft drinks it's only Diet coke so no sugar (but other crap yea)

Dtat720 as I said I REALLY don't want to get into whether or not crossfit is good or bad, but all those replies are just too much. what we do IS NOT much different than any circuit training routine and the drills look a lot like what I see in other MX riders. this is what I did today.

Warmup:
300 m run
20 push ups
15 jump squat
20 back extension
15 v ups
50 jump-rope double unders (I suck so 100 normal ones)

Skill:
Power Cleans - really great exercise if you ask me. and no my form does not suck, it used to for the first time but then I got help and it's perfect.

Workout of the day:
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 reps of
deadlift
bench press
clean

yes, WOD included Deadlift and Bench press. yes, it was in 10-9-8... routine instead of 3*3 (which is basically for BODY BUILDING) so what are you crying about son?

And again cause I have to keep this at the bottom of the thread - just looking for advice regarding degradation of hand endurance as a result of training routine.
HenryA
Posts
3789
Joined
12/29/2011
Location
Stockholm SE
5/12/2015 6:32am
Try to rest for a week and then get on the bike and see if you feel any difference. Too much training is never good.
IWreckALot
Posts
8676
Joined
3/12/2011
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
5/12/2015 6:44am
racerx221 wrote:
mass amounts of estrogen and soy protein bro.
rzs wrote:
I hope you're kidding, otherwise you are putting your nutritional ignorance on display. Soy does not contain Estrogen, it contains Phytoestrogens which behave differently in the...
I hope you're kidding, otherwise you are putting your nutritional ignorance on display. Soy does not contain Estrogen, it contains Phytoestrogens which behave differently in the human body than estrogen. Hummus is another food that contains mass amounts of Phytoestrogens, and you don't see the Arabic world having problems with procreating now do you.

Regardless, I've been vegan for two years and only started having these issues in the last couple weeks since starting crossfit. regardless #2 - I hardly consume soy even as a vegan. probably not more than anyone eating an American diet.
Bro, we don't joke on vital. 100% seriousness 110% of the time.
bvm111
Posts
9283
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
5/12/2015 6:47am
do you even lift bro?
UpTiTe
Posts
7743
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4000th
5/12/2015 7:30am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 7:31am
Yes, because of hypermobility, crossfit is bad on your hands and will promote fatigue. After a few years of cross fit, your hands won't be your only complaint.
Rick M.
Posts
242
Joined
3/8/2015
Location
Boise, ID US
5/12/2015 7:43am
UpTiTe wrote:
Yes, because of hypermobility, crossfit is bad on your hands and will promote fatigue. After a few years of cross fit, your hands won't be your...
Yes, because of hypermobility, crossfit is bad on your hands and will promote fatigue. After a few years of cross fit, your hands won't be your only complaint.
Only post post worth reading, OP.
Flip109
Posts
3460
Joined
6/15/2007
Location
TX US
5/12/2015 7:46am
Well if you didn't have any problems with your hands before crossfit and that stretching, and now you do......... Cut one or both out over the next month and see if anything improves.
Spartacus
Posts
2270
Joined
5/20/2011
Location
PW US
5/12/2015 7:56am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 7:57am
Holy crap, people love to hate CF. Everyone here that's done CF for at least 3 years please raise your hand......I thought so.

I do CF and have nothing but positive things to say about my results and personal fitness gains. I come from a background as a trainer in both World and Golds gyms so I have a bit of insight into training.

If you're new to CF I'd say that's a pretty high load and would expect your grip to be pooched. This cleans are putting a load on your forearms and wrist that are new and you may not have the mobility you need there. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you're doing it "right".

CF doesn't require "hyper mobility" it requires proper mobility. Just because you can't comfortably get in a correct position doesn't mean it requires hypermobility.

How many days of the week are you doing a CF workout? Given the unusually high metabolic demands, more that 3 days a week the first month or two is crazy IMO.
5/12/2015 8:01am
I'm guessing that it is simply fatigue. After a hard day of deadlifting and usually something else grip-related my hands temporarily lose a lot of strength.
UpTiTe
Posts
7743
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4000th
5/12/2015 8:07am
Spartacus wrote:
Holy crap, people love to hate CF. Everyone here that's done CF for at least 3 years please raise your hand......I thought so. I do CF...
Holy crap, people love to hate CF. Everyone here that's done CF for at least 3 years please raise your hand......I thought so.

I do CF and have nothing but positive things to say about my results and personal fitness gains. I come from a background as a trainer in both World and Golds gyms so I have a bit of insight into training.

If you're new to CF I'd say that's a pretty high load and would expect your grip to be pooched. This cleans are putting a load on your forearms and wrist that are new and you may not have the mobility you need there. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you're doing it "right".

CF doesn't require "hyper mobility" it requires proper mobility. Just because you can't comfortably get in a correct position doesn't mean it requires hypermobility.

How many days of the week are you doing a CF workout? Given the unusually high metabolic demands, more that 3 days a week the first month or two is crazy IMO.
I agree with 100% of your post, but 99% of the people the teavh cross fit don't teach proper technique, they teach speed.

Post a reply to: Did crossfit demolish my hand/palm endurance?

The Latest