Did Travis prove a 500 is competive or superior to a 450?

Joko
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Joko
Edited Date/Time 10/7/2014 1:12pm
Would like to see a test of the RMZ500 and a lap time comparison to a 450 on differing tracks. Seems like it holds its own on SX obstacles, and tears up whoop sections.
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captmoto
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captmoto 10/5/2014 9:26am
10/5/2014 9:26am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2014 9:27am
I think it proves Travis is competitive. At some point in real racing, he would have to turn that thing and get it smoothly out of the corners. There were no corners for Hanny to try and t-bone him in either. You would think that Travis would end up with a job as a riding coach after that. An absolute blast watching that guy.
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Matt Fisher 10/5/2014 9:31am
10/5/2014 9:31am
As much as I love 2 strokes, when it comes to the open class I really think the argument was settled back in the late 90's when 4 strokes took over in 500cc GP racing. Not because of a displacement or power advantage, but because of a traction advantage the thumper proved to be a better platform.

The same cannot be said of the small displacement bikes, though it seems that the 250 class would be quite evenly matched with equal displacement thumpers and pingers.
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hvaughn88 10/5/2014 9:34am
10/5/2014 9:34am
Travis would have probably been competitive on a strider

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burn1986
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burn1986 10/5/2014 9:37am
10/5/2014 9:37am
It's be cool to see a test with good riders for sure. Of course it'd be cool to see them racing in the 450 class.Cool
Joko
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Joko 10/5/2014 9:54am
10/5/2014 9:54am
I recall a test back a few years ago where
A cr500af was equal or better than a 08CRF450, may not hold water with today's bikes. But on loose or tracks with a lot of hills might do well.
davistld01
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davistld01 10/5/2014 9:54am
10/5/2014 9:54am
On a track with whoops, rollers & jumps...but no corners, with Travis Pastrana twisting the throttle...yes it did. Change any of that, and it didn't.
Samdanny576 10/5/2014 9:58am
10/5/2014 9:58am
His speed through the whoops and his talent carried him.
He would've been fast on a 125.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 10/5/2014 10:01am
10/5/2014 10:01am
What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven.

A talented rider that can utilize a 500 will turn faster laps on it than a 450 .

500s are lighter,lower CG,way less gyro effect,and will go faster down straights in all but hard pack conditions.
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visser62 10/5/2014 10:21am
10/5/2014 10:21am
Travis himself said the bike would be terrible on a track with corners.
Ashleymx
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Ashleymx 10/5/2014 11:08am
10/5/2014 11:08am
Clearly that bike was faster on that track. If Travis had his timing down perfect and didn't make mistakes it would have been a massive advantage at this event. Sure would be cool to see some one off machines at this even in future but unfortunately I predict riders will stick to their normal race bikes because its easier and its only one day of racing anyway. Travis and that 500 made that event awesome for me! Hopefully someone really pushes a few guys to race AFs next year, I don't expect Travis to line up that guys done more than enough. Legend.
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scott_nz 10/5/2014 11:08am
10/5/2014 11:08am
hillbilly wrote:
What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven. A talented rider that can utilize a...
What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven.

A talented rider that can utilize a 500 will turn faster laps on it than a 450 .

500s are lighter,lower CG,way less gyro effect,and will go faster down straights in all but hard pack conditions.
they ran world 500 champs until the early 200's, but the last 2 stroke to win it was 96, and that was on a KTM350, it was 94 when the last true 500 won the title,

in a straight line, nothing touches a 500, but throw in stopping and turning and the four strokes win with a more useable powerband,

what killed the 500's was that no one brought them, even KTM who made their name selling bikes in sizes no one would, gave up on big bore 2 strokes more than 10 years ago,
Brad460
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Brad460 10/5/2014 11:47am
10/5/2014 11:47am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2014 11:48am
I think it proves the Euros are faster than the Americans...or wait wrong thread. ..
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Matt Fisher 10/5/2014 11:55am
10/5/2014 11:55am
hillbilly wrote:
What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven. A talented rider that can utilize a...
What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven.

A talented rider that can utilize a 500 will turn faster laps on it than a 450 .

500s are lighter,lower CG,way less gyro effect,and will go faster down straights in all but hard pack conditions.
scott_nz wrote:
they ran world 500 champs until the early 200's, but the last 2 stroke to win it was 96, and that was on a KTM350, it...
they ran world 500 champs until the early 200's, but the last 2 stroke to win it was 96, and that was on a KTM350, it was 94 when the last true 500 won the title,

in a straight line, nothing touches a 500, but throw in stopping and turning and the four strokes win with a more useable powerband,

what killed the 500's was that no one brought them, even KTM who made their name selling bikes in sizes no one would, gave up on big bore 2 strokes more than 10 years ago,
Scott_nz is correct, though Shayne King won the 96 championship on a KTM360, not 350.

Although the takeover of 250 valve munchers over 125 oil burners (as well as 450/4 to the 250/2) was certainly politically and financially driven, I don't think that was the case with equal displacement 500cc bikes that were still being raced in Europe. Since either engine configuration made more than sufficient power, the usability of that power became far more important.

There's a legitimate argument that DI 2 strokes may well be the salvation of that engine type, but we haven't reached that point in dirtbikes yet.
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Tradmark 10/5/2014 12:28pm
10/5/2014 12:28pm
Perhaps all of the 4 stroke
Advantage is true...........when comparing a 500 2t from 20 to 25 years ago. I dont find in the enduro world the big 4's turn and do anything better than 300 katoom 2t. Given, i would bet, 3 to 5 years r&d a 500 2t would be making another 15% more hp and more manageable hp at that. All this showed to me is that after 20
Years r&d that theres some places an equal
Size 4 stroke has caught up. Itd take no time to improve the 2t to where the performance gap was right back where it was 20 years ago
40Plus_922mx
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40Plus_922mx 10/5/2014 2:11pm
10/5/2014 2:11pm
This is simple. Thumps have the 2 strokes covered off the line, out of corners etc. So basically indoors. But throw in some running room and the smoker has potential. Say outdoors?
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Mtek 10/5/2014 2:20pm
10/5/2014 2:20pm
Tradmark wrote:
Perhaps all of the 4 stroke Advantage is true...........when comparing a 500 2t from 20 to 25 years ago. I dont find in the enduro world...
Perhaps all of the 4 stroke
Advantage is true...........when comparing a 500 2t from 20 to 25 years ago. I dont find in the enduro world the big 4's turn and do anything better than 300 katoom 2t. Given, i would bet, 3 to 5 years r&d a 500 2t would be making another 15% more hp and more manageable hp at that. All this showed to me is that after 20
Years r&d that theres some places an equal
Size 4 stroke has caught up. Itd take no time to improve the 2t to where the performance gap was right back where it was 20 years ago
15% more power? R and D is not about hp anymore in the premier class, it's about traction. Launch control, different engine maps, traction control, etc are starting to show up on production bikes. Thumpers will always have the advantage here.

I ride a 450 for track, and do have a ktm 300 hunny for off road. The advantage the 2t has for me is the free wheeling feel it has when off the throttle mainly.

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Mtek
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Mtek 10/5/2014 2:23pm
10/5/2014 2:23pm
Did anyone else think TS was running a 20" front wheel? Looks like he changed it as it's different in diff pics, even diff color rims, but there are a few pics where the front wheel/tire looks smaller in diameter and wider. The pic on the home page here is one of the few I am referencing.
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mxb2 10/5/2014 3:22pm
10/5/2014 3:22pm
Tp199 is a legend, this was a one off race in a straght line How did his last sx attempt go? that shoud answer all race questions.
eightbitmotocrosser 10/5/2014 3:29pm
10/5/2014 3:29pm
Joko wrote:
Would like to see a test of the RMZ500 and a lap time comparison to a 450 on differing tracks. Seems like it holds its own...
Would like to see a test of the RMZ500 and a lap time comparison to a 450 on differing tracks. Seems like it holds its own on SX obstacles, and tears up whoop sections.
GrinningGrinningGrinning
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#991 10/5/2014 3:31pm
10/5/2014 3:31pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 7:50pm
Joko wrote:
I recall a test back a few years ago where A cr500af was equal or better than a 08CRF450, may not hold water with today's bikes...
I recall a test back a few years ago where
A cr500af was equal or better than a 08CRF450, may not hold water with today's bikes. But on loose or tracks with a lot of hills might do well.
...
munsch121
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munsch121 10/5/2014 3:56pm
10/5/2014 3:56pm
All it proved was a 500 2stroke is "competitive" with a 450 4 stroke ridden by a guy who hasn't raced IN YEARS.....in a straight line.

I love 2 strokes....but smokers need to accept 2 strokes aren't faster race bikes than strokers.
machine
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machine 10/5/2014 4:02pm
10/5/2014 4:02pm
munsch121 wrote:
All it proved was a 500 2stroke is "competitive" with a 450 4 stroke ridden by a guy who hasn't raced IN YEARS.....in a straight line...
All it proved was a 500 2stroke is "competitive" with a 450 4 stroke ridden by a guy who hasn't raced IN YEARS.....in a straight line.

I love 2 strokes....but smokers need to accept 2 strokes aren't faster race bikes than strokers.
Yep...
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#991 10/5/2014 4:09pm
10/5/2014 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 7:50pm
munsch121 wrote:
All it proved was a 500 2stroke is "competitive" with a 450 4 stroke ridden by a guy who hasn't raced IN YEARS.....in a straight line...
All it proved was a 500 2stroke is "competitive" with a 450 4 stroke ridden by a guy who hasn't raced IN YEARS.....in a straight line.

I love 2 strokes....but smokers need to accept 2 strokes aren't faster race bikes than strokers.
machine wrote:
Yep...
...
UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 10/5/2014 4:14pm
10/5/2014 4:14pm
The only thing it proved is that Travis is fast in a straight line through the woops on any bike. Put corners on that track and he would've got smoked.
#991
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#991 10/5/2014 4:23pm
10/5/2014 4:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 7:50pm
UpTiTe wrote:
The only thing it proved is that Travis is fast in a straight line through the woops on any bike. Put corners on that track and...
The only thing it proved is that Travis is fast in a straight line through the woops on any bike. Put corners on that track and he would've got smoked.
...
pete24
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pete24 10/5/2014 4:58pm
10/5/2014 4:58pm
monster cup is an open event Travis should lend it to someone
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Outsider 10/5/2014 5:16pm
10/5/2014 5:16pm
Travis' supreme talent, long legs, and and yes a 500 helped him smoke everyone in the whoops. Fun to watch, no doubt.
str8shooter 10/5/2014 6:01pm
10/5/2014 6:01pm
Id like to see what someone like James or RV could do on that bike!
One can only wonder.....

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