"What IF" regarding doping

tprice07
Posts
2373
Joined
9/29/2009
Location
Fort Dodge, IA US
Edited Date/Time 5/27/2014 3:47pm
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal and hinting at the record books being drastically changed.

Just curious if anyone else go that impression. I know Aldon has made comments about saying please do drug testing...but I have seen some other arrogant people who were involved in doping make similar comments.....that plus him coming from the cycling world where it is known that they are expected to use it if they want to be competitive.
|
hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
5/15/2014 9:00am
tprice07 wrote:
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal...
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal and hinting at the record books being drastically changed.

Just curious if anyone else go that impression. I know Aldon has made comments about saying please do drug testing...but I have seen some other arrogant people who were involved in doping make similar comments.....that plus him coming from the cycling world where it is known that they are expected to use it if they want to be competitive.
I literally just got done listening to it and just to be fair, Reed never actually said Aldon's name. Now, I think it was pretty clear what he was hinting at, but I don't recall him actually saying Aldon's name. It was a pretty interesting conversation, though.
5/15/2014 9:02am
People who cheat are often the ones first to speak up wanting drug testing. This helps them redirect the negative attention they are going to get in the future. Of course some riders are doping because winning is everything and there is a bunch of money on the line for the top riders. I only hope the testing is done correctly. Its a welcome change and its about time DC pulled the trigger on testing.
CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7358
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
2339th
5/15/2014 9:05am
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube.

You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping in the cycling world...
tprice07
Posts
2373
Joined
9/29/2009
Location
Fort Dodge, IA US
5/15/2014 9:05am
tprice07 wrote:
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal...
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal and hinting at the record books being drastically changed.

Just curious if anyone else go that impression. I know Aldon has made comments about saying please do drug testing...but I have seen some other arrogant people who were involved in doping make similar comments.....that plus him coming from the cycling world where it is known that they are expected to use it if they want to be competitive.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I literally just got done listening to it and just to be fair, Reed never actually said Aldon's name. Now, I think it was pretty clear...
I literally just got done listening to it and just to be fair, Reed never actually said Aldon's name. Now, I think it was pretty clear what he was hinting at, but I don't recall him actually saying Aldon's name. It was a pretty interesting conversation, though.
You are right, he did not say specifically. Has there been any many other trainers in the 450 (250 2 stroke) that have championships other than Aldon? They were saying it would rewrite the record books or something along those lines....So Stewart, Carmichael, RV....Kenny and eventually AC.

The Shop

hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
5/15/2014 9:08am
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube. You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping...
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube.

You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping in the cycling world...
I agree, that documentary was very well done.
Jesse318NW
Posts
69
Joined
8/6/2010
Location
Snoqualmie, WA US
5/15/2014 9:09am Edited Date/Time 5/15/2014 9:22am
tprice07 wrote:
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal...
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal and hinting at the record books being drastically changed.

Just curious if anyone else go that impression. I know Aldon has made comments about saying please do drug testing...but I have seen some other arrogant people who were involved in doping make similar comments.....that plus him coming from the cycling world where it is known that they are expected to use it if they want to be competitive.
I'm not ready to get labeled as a tin foil hat guy but the things that seem weird to me are:

1) RC backs down the training, gets sick and ends his partnership with Aldon on a sour note.

2) Kenny pays Aldon a ton to not get tired and is now tired. The first Aldon athlete to get tired that I can remember. This happens at a similar time to when the new testing requirements for the nationals are probably announced to the riders (I'm sure ahead of the press release).

Do I think RV is not racing the nationals because of the testing. Of course not since he is in Colorodo. But did he ever plan on racing them? Why was RV sick in Toronto again?

We will never know the answers but it is interesting in my opinon.
hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
5/15/2014 9:10am
tprice07 wrote:
You are right, he did not say specifically. Has there been any many other trainers in the 450 (250 2 stroke) that have championships other than...
You are right, he did not say specifically. Has there been any many other trainers in the 450 (250 2 stroke) that have championships other than Aldon? They were saying it would rewrite the record books or something along those lines....So Stewart, Carmichael, RV....Kenny and eventually AC.
No I completely agree that it's obvious that's who he was hinting at. I sure hope he's wrong, but nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to PED's in sports.
tprice07
Posts
2373
Joined
9/29/2009
Location
Fort Dodge, IA US
5/15/2014 9:17am
tprice07 wrote:
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal...
When they were interviewing Chad Reed were they hinting at Aldon Baker being involved in blood doping? They were saying could motocross/supercross handle a huge scandal and hinting at the record books being drastically changed.

Just curious if anyone else go that impression. I know Aldon has made comments about saying please do drug testing...but I have seen some other arrogant people who were involved in doping make similar comments.....that plus him coming from the cycling world where it is known that they are expected to use it if they want to be competitive.
Jesse318NW wrote:
I'm not ready to get labeled as a tin foil hat guy but the things that seem weird to me are: 1) RC backs down the...
I'm not ready to get labeled as a tin foil hat guy but the things that seem weird to me are:

1) RC backs down the training, gets sick and ends his partnership with Aldon on a sour note.

2) Kenny pays Aldon a ton to not get tired and is now tired. The first Aldon athlete to get tired that I can remember. This happens at a similar time to when the new testing requirements for the nationals are probably announced to the riders (I'm sure ahead of the press release).

Do I think RV is not racing the nationals because of the testing. Of course not since he is in Colorodo. But did he ever plan on racing them? Why was RV sick in Toronto again?

We will never know the answers but it is interesting in my opinon.
What was the story of RC and Aldon, I wasn't aware he left on a negative note. I got the impression James left because it was too intense and it took the fun out of riding/racing.

The Kenny thing about him getting tired and RV getting sick are good points. They could have been doing some kind of enhancements during training then word got out that testing would happen so they had to back down from it as the supercross season started...hence the reason why RV wasn't so dominating in the beginning.

Also, I agree RV was out of the nationals because of his knee for sure. Like others said I'm sure he was lying to the public because of someone in Kawi or Monster making him say that. You have to feel for the guy a little, he is in a horrible position with all the pressure of people expecting him to win in dominating fashion plus training 24/7.
David Izer
Posts
1459
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Atlanta, GA US
5/15/2014 9:21am
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport.

There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular by us or our guests. Anything else is outside the parameters of our interviews and reaching for a headline.

We've had a great relationship with all the trainers and riders in our sport since we started over 12 years ago. Please stay focused on the relevant topic and how that pertains to motocross.

Thanks.
pamoto
Posts
565
Joined
6/10/2009
Location
Mill Hall, PA US
5/15/2014 9:22am
With James, I believe Aldon wanted to do more off the track training and James wanted to ride more.
There may be more to it but I did here that.
hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
5/15/2014 9:26am
David Izer wrote:
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport. There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular...
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport.

There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular by us or our guests. Anything else is outside the parameters of our interviews and reaching for a headline.

We've had a great relationship with all the trainers and riders in our sport since we started over 12 years ago. Please stay focused on the relevant topic and how that pertains to motocross.

Thanks.
Damn, Izer. That was about as PC as it gets. Tongue
tprice07
Posts
2373
Joined
9/29/2009
Location
Fort Dodge, IA US
5/15/2014 9:29am
David Izer wrote:
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport. There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular...
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport.

There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular by us or our guests. Anything else is outside the parameters of our interviews and reaching for a headline.

We've had a great relationship with all the trainers and riders in our sport since we started over 12 years ago. Please stay focused on the relevant topic and how that pertains to motocross.

Thanks.
Hey David,

I should have reworded that, I understand you guys were essentially saying "What IF" the testing revealed a scandal on a similar scale to the cycling world. That being said, as dominant as Aldon Baker has been as a trainer, IF he was involved it would change things in a drastic way.

Aldon appears to be one of the most intense trainers and I really hope it comes out that none of the racers are involved....well if Alessi was involved that wouldn't be entirely bad for the sport...might get rid of that whole mess..
GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
5/15/2014 9:35am
David Izer wrote:
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport. There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular...
It was a general conversation about the new testing and guidelines in our sport.

There was absolutely no finger pointing or innuendo about anyone in particular by us or our guests. Anything else is outside the parameters of our interviews and reaching for a headline.

We've had a great relationship with all the trainers and riders in our sport since we started over 12 years ago. Please stay focused on the relevant topic and how that pertains to motocross.

Thanks.
Welcome to my world.

hvaughn88
Posts
8363
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
5/15/2014 9:38am
^^haha, GuyB, you could probably open up a pretty damn successful day care with the experience of herding us dipshits. If I sign up early, do I get a discount on my tuition?
DoctorJD
Posts
2922
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Somewhere in..., GA US
5/15/2014 9:40am
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube. You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping...
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube.

You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping in the cycling world...
I read, "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton last year, and I'm currently reading "Cycle of Lies" about Lance Armstrong. According to Hamilton, in the mid-late 90's US Postal had a designated refrigerator in the team bus/RV just for drugs/blood. Right out in the open. It was that prevalent. He (TH) suggested that 90%, or more, of the pro peloton was doping to some degree. Personally, I believe its going on now. Its simply a race between the doping doctors and the testers, with the Dr's trying to stay a couple steps ahead of the testers. Actually, its in all segments of cycling now. I've read of two different cases where amatuer cyclists have been busted doping, in one case, a 60-year-old Cat-3 racer.

With that being said, I hate the witch hunt that is now going on in MX. While I do have an inherent distrust for anyone coming from the pro cycling ranks (for reasons cited above), I don't think its fair to pin the "cheater" tag to Baker, it simply isn't warranted simply because he's been successful with his riders. I didn't hear the interview, but my comments were directed at the whispers that have been going on since the whole drug testing deal was announced.
David Izer
Posts
1459
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Atlanta, GA US
5/15/2014 9:43am
I certainly understand the curiosity and fascination with this topic since it has dominated sports in general and been a topic in the pits for many years.

I'm just very thankful that MX Sports took the lead on this so we can concentrate on the racing and not conspiracy theories.
Boarddesign
Posts
1106
Joined
12/13/2010
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
Fantasy
2035th
5/15/2014 9:44am
tprice07 wrote:
Hey David, I should have reworded that, I understand you guys were essentially saying "What IF" the testing revealed a scandal on a similar scale to...
Hey David,

I should have reworded that, I understand you guys were essentially saying "What IF" the testing revealed a scandal on a similar scale to the cycling world. That being said, as dominant as Aldon Baker has been as a trainer, IF he was involved it would change things in a drastic way.

Aldon appears to be one of the most intense trainers and I really hope it comes out that none of the racers are involved....well if Alessi was involved that wouldn't be entirely bad for the sport...might get rid of that whole mess..
ooops... (back pedal) SORRY D... edit edit edit.....

I'm pretty sure the "Whole Mess" would clean the floor with your ass on a MX bike, show some respect. I'm sure if Mike came on and quoted you and said "dude, I'm out trying my hardest give me a break" , you would back pedal there too. "Oh sorry Mike, I like you just not,.....it was awesome when you...")

Why do so many not show respect for ANY and ALL of the brave men who throw a leg over a bike and make this sport what it is?
GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
5/15/2014 9:47am
DoctorJD wrote:
I read, "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton last year, and I'm currently reading "Cycle of Lies" about Lance Armstrong. According to Hamilton, in the mid-late...
I read, "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton last year, and I'm currently reading "Cycle of Lies" about Lance Armstrong. According to Hamilton, in the mid-late 90's US Postal had a designated refrigerator in the team bus/RV just for drugs/blood. Right out in the open. It was that prevalent. He (TH) suggested that 90%, or more, of the pro peloton was doping to some degree. Personally, I believe its going on now. Its simply a race between the doping doctors and the testers, with the Dr's trying to stay a couple steps ahead of the testers. Actually, its in all segments of cycling now. I've read of two different cases where amatuer cyclists have been busted doping, in one case, a 60-year-old Cat-3 racer.

With that being said, I hate the witch hunt that is now going on in MX. While I do have an inherent distrust for anyone coming from the pro cycling ranks (for reasons cited above), I don't think its fair to pin the "cheater" tag to Baker, it simply isn't warranted simply because he's been successful with his riders. I didn't hear the interview, but my comments were directed at the whispers that have been going on since the whole drug testing deal was announced.
So who's conducting a witch hunt? The only one I see doing anything resembling that are the fans, with some of the accusations that get dropped in here.

Putting drug testing in place? I think it's a prudent thing to do, in an effort to try and ensure that the sport has as level a playing field as possible, and to remove some of the questions.

Doing nothing? That wouldn't be right.
rcm406
Posts
3639
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Atlanta, GA US
5/15/2014 9:58am
pamoto wrote:
With James, I believe Aldon wanted to do more off the track training and James wanted to ride more. There may be more to it but...
With James, I believe Aldon wanted to do more off the track training and James wanted to ride more.
There may be more to it but I did here that.
That's what James said, wink wink! He has also said wait until he retires and writes a "tell all" book!Whistling
GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
5/15/2014 10:00am
rcm406 wrote:
That's what James said, wink wink! He has also said wait until he retires and writes a "tell all" book!Whistling
Okay, where did he say that?
Sandberm
Posts
5847
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA US
5/15/2014 10:04am
Two people that tie cycling to mx and you dont have to go back too far. Help me out here guys and try and remember with/for me.

Floyd Landis, busted in the TdF, had his win taken away....wasnt he a close friend of Ryan Hughes back in the early 2000's to the extent that one or the other was living in the others house at times? Anybody else remember this or am I dreaming?

And two, Jeff Spencer. Worked on the winning Lance Armstrong teams and In fact If I remember right kept a blog for RacerX during one of Lances championship TdF runs. He worked with Team Honda in the 80's as well as Jeff Ward and then I also remember him working in the 2000's with Kevin Windham and Chad Reed. Short stints with each rider. And I distinctly remember Chad saying in an interview that Jeff had some strange training techniques that he didnt get with. I believe Windham agreed with this.
5/15/2014 10:04am
It really doesn't take the sleuthing skills of Columbo to figure out who the most likely suspects are nor is it a witch hunt to put A and B together.
rcm406
Posts
3639
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Atlanta, GA US
5/15/2014 10:08am
rcm406 wrote:
That's what James said, wink wink! He has also said wait until he retires and writes a "tell all" book!Whistling
GuyB wrote:
Okay, where did he say that?
I believe it was on the pulp show a while back. They weren't just talking about PEDS, they were talking about a lot of stuff about the industry and James said jokingly, wait until I write a book, you'll be surprised about a lot of stuff. Maybe he was joking, but he said it.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
12476
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Fantasy
4231st
5/15/2014 10:10am
David Izer wrote:
I certainly understand the curiosity and fascination with this topic since it has dominated sports in general and been a topic in the pits for many...
I certainly understand the curiosity and fascination with this topic since it has dominated sports in general and been a topic in the pits for many years.

I'm just very thankful that MX Sports took the lead on this so we can concentrate on the racing and not conspiracy theories.
"I'm just very thankful that MX Sports took the lead on this so we can concentrate on the racing and not conspiracy theories"

Conspiracy theorists buckling to reason?

GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
5/15/2014 10:13am Edited Date/Time 5/15/2014 10:13am
The three biggest PEDs I've seen in this thread so far are speculation, innuendo, and accusations.
peelout
Posts
17870
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
5/15/2014 10:13am
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube. You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping...
I'm just sayin' watch "The Armstong Lie" on iTunes or YouTube.

You will be blown away with all the people who were involved with blood doping in the cycling world...
in the end, Armstrong was still the best. they were all doping and he was still winning.

i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying they were on an even playing field.
DoctorJD
Posts
2922
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Somewhere in..., GA US
5/15/2014 10:18am
DoctorJD wrote:
I read, "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton last year, and I'm currently reading "Cycle of Lies" about Lance Armstrong. According to Hamilton, in the mid-late...
I read, "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton last year, and I'm currently reading "Cycle of Lies" about Lance Armstrong. According to Hamilton, in the mid-late 90's US Postal had a designated refrigerator in the team bus/RV just for drugs/blood. Right out in the open. It was that prevalent. He (TH) suggested that 90%, or more, of the pro peloton was doping to some degree. Personally, I believe its going on now. Its simply a race between the doping doctors and the testers, with the Dr's trying to stay a couple steps ahead of the testers. Actually, its in all segments of cycling now. I've read of two different cases where amatuer cyclists have been busted doping, in one case, a 60-year-old Cat-3 racer.

With that being said, I hate the witch hunt that is now going on in MX. While I do have an inherent distrust for anyone coming from the pro cycling ranks (for reasons cited above), I don't think its fair to pin the "cheater" tag to Baker, it simply isn't warranted simply because he's been successful with his riders. I didn't hear the interview, but my comments were directed at the whispers that have been going on since the whole drug testing deal was announced.
GuyB wrote:
So who's conducting a witch hunt? The only one I see doing anything resembling that are the fans, with some of the accusations that get dropped...
So who's conducting a witch hunt? The only one I see doing anything resembling that are the fans, with some of the accusations that get dropped in here.

Putting drug testing in place? I think it's a prudent thing to do, in an effort to try and ensure that the sport has as level a playing field as possible, and to remove some of the questions.

Doing nothing? That wouldn't be right.
Yes, the witch hunt I was referring to was the one being conducted by the fans. And yes, many here on this forum. Do we need drug testing in the most physically demanding motorsport in the world (perhaps one of the most physically demanding sports, period)? Of course we do, its time. I guess what I was trying to say was that its naive to think its not going on, but we need to be fair when dispensing accusations.
Sandberm
Posts
5847
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Pasco, WA US
5/15/2014 10:18am
peelout wrote:
in the end, Armstrong was still the best. they were all doping and he was still winning. i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying they...
in the end, Armstrong was still the best. they were all doping and he was still winning.

i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying they were on an even playing field.
Agreed. Lance was pretty amazing.

But was his wins simply because he had the best "doctor" that came up with the best cocktail of illegal activities or were all the riders doing the exact same things and thus it was an even playing field so to speak?

People always say it was a level playing field because everyone was doping etc. But it would only be level if evry rider was doping the same way. Thus I believe the winner was decided by who had the best mad scientist on payrol.

Post a reply to: "What IF" regarding doping

The Latest