Could Pro Circuit build a complete new bike?

OriolMassot
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Edited Date/Time 3/4/2014 6:41pm
I'm talking about a brand. A new brand. With all the technology they have and all the knowledge they have after so many years in this sport, my question is this one. Could they build a brand new bike?

My guess is a HUGE YES. Look at a current freshly released 450 in the market. Besides the engine, frame, ergos designed, and plastics design, all the other items can be acquired from other companies.

If they could focus on building a steel or alu frame, new engine with reliability standars and some ergos that I'm sure they know how, they could just get the wheels, suspensions, exhaust and handlebars from a supply companies.

Would be cool?
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shredder22
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3/4/2014 2:47am
I'm talking about a brand. A new brand. With all the technology they have and all the knowledge they have after so many years in this...
I'm talking about a brand. A new brand. With all the technology they have and all the knowledge they have after so many years in this sport, my question is this one. Could they build a brand new bike?

My guess is a HUGE YES. Look at a current freshly released 450 in the market. Besides the engine, frame, ergos designed, and plastics design, all the other items can be acquired from other companies.

If they could focus on building a steel or alu frame, new engine with reliability standars and some ergos that I'm sure they know how, they could just get the wheels, suspensions, exhaust and handlebars from a supply companies.

Would be cool?
Pro Circuit is already good at what they do. I don't see them making their own brand of bike, and it wouldn't be a piece of cake to just whip together an entirely new 450 like you seem to think they would be able to do.
mx757
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3/4/2014 2:49am
Could they? Yes. Would it make as much sense financially to them as building aftermarket goodies to make the other bikes better than they are off the showroom floor? No. Pro Circuits whole business model has been to make goodies to improve (whether functionally or aesthetically) the bikes rolling off showroom floors. What would they do when everything is tricked out from the start? Theres always more profit involved in specialized parts than in being an OEM.
MxKing809
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3/4/2014 3:59am
I'll buy a two-two built bike! That fella knows how to set up a bike!
Woobia 22
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3/4/2014 5:36am
I would think yes but it would cost a motza unrealistic to have all the moulds or lasers cut out each part etc. I remember a Champion Drag Racer in Australia built his own Motors from a block, mind you he had a fair bit of disposable income.
Sorry re read the question, as I was thinking making Tyres from a rubber tree would take a bit of trial and error.

Talking about setting up bikes I find it strange how the King has been working with Honda to create a great bike and hasn't produced.

RC has been working with the Pink Heart crew for a while now with the rider if he was going any slower he would fall. Not much to show even though Tickle looks to have improved but how long has it been and can they produce a champion from a rookie senior rider, or set a bike up properly for their Riders.

Reedy does seem to be very picky with his setup but when it is right he can do the business.

Does RV have much input on his race setup or development of the Kwaka.

I remember hearing that Bubba had problems relaying what was wrong with his bike, then again he did employ an Australian Coach at one time and I don't think that worked out too well.

I have been impressed with Mossy in the big bikes and WP. The 250,s Young Mr Hill, Davalos seems to have the speed and Anderson, Wilson, Bagget, and of course Chinchilla.along with Marvin. Freizy rode ok on the 450 but hasn't been impressive on the 250.

I would like to see more of these guys given a try out on the 450's.

The Shop

TwoTwo150
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3/4/2014 5:54am
I called them and a fully built KX250F was 26,000 I think.
JB 19
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3/4/2014 5:57am
The issue is likely the cost of tooling to mass produce parts. Sure, they could build a couple hundred by using their CNC machines, but they would probably have to charge 25,000 per bike to break even.

It is a shame that we don't have an American company building performance motorcycles. I would love to see it, but I doubt there is anyone who would be willing to stomach the loss of cubic dollars to get established.

It would be great if a company like Pro Circuit partnered with someone like Cycra who knows the tool and die side of manufacturing. Now I'm dreaming though.
12 Pack
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3/4/2014 6:55am
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit on his ass all day Mon-Fri, then come in on Saturday and make 80 per hour. The tig welder will do the same. The technology, ingenuity, and forward-thinking exist here, but laziness and unions get in the way.

Remember when Vertamati popped up in the early 90s and actually made ridiculously good bikes? I'd LOVE to see that here, albeit with a DI 2-banger, or a pneumatic valvetrain, ride-by-wire fooper. Either way. and before you say it, Cannondale doesn't count.
nc97
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3/4/2014 7:08am
Pro circuit ...no... JGR ...yes
12 Pack
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3/4/2014 7:17am
nc97 wrote:
Pro circuit ...no... JGR ...yes
JGR independently, mehhh....... JGR's engineering department spearheading Toyota's mass producing capabilities...absofuckinglutely.
vet323
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3/4/2014 7:20am
They could design a bike, then have Polaris build it.
BAMX
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3/4/2014 7:38am
Could they..... yes assuming they wanted to squander a few hundred million bucks.
would they .....no
GuyB
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3/4/2014 8:54am
Could they? Probably. But why? To compete against their long-time partners at Kawasaki?

The only reason to want to do it would be to start their own motorcycle company, and the investment would be insane. Besides the bikes they'd build for the team, they'd have to create 400 of them and make them available to consumers.
BobPA
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3/4/2014 9:05am
MxKing809 wrote:
I'll buy a two-two built bike! That fella knows how to set up a bike!
Yea. He proved that last year Wink
MotoX85
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3/4/2014 9:12am
12 Pack wrote:
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit...
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit on his ass all day Mon-Fri, then come in on Saturday and make 80 per hour. The tig welder will do the same. The technology, ingenuity, and forward-thinking exist here, but laziness and unions get in the way.

Remember when Vertamati popped up in the early 90s and actually made ridiculously good bikes? I'd LOVE to see that here, albeit with a DI 2-banger, or a pneumatic valvetrain, ride-by-wire fooper. Either way. and before you say it, Cannondale doesn't count.
12 pack - you usually have some wild comments, but I can say I couldn;t agree with you more about your first sentence.

Do yo know the guy that drives the car off the assembly line to the parking lot in Detroit makes $50 an hour and sits down and watches until another car comes off the line since he's a union worker and is not allowed to do anything else.
MotoX85
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3/4/2014 9:14am
Pro Circuit could build a bike as could others but I think it would be hard to -re-invent every part of the bikes so some things would have to be patent purchased for use and I think this, the cost of workers in the US, would not make this bike competitive price wise.
12 Pack
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3/4/2014 9:21am
12 Pack wrote:
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit...
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit on his ass all day Mon-Fri, then come in on Saturday and make 80 per hour. The tig welder will do the same. The technology, ingenuity, and forward-thinking exist here, but laziness and unions get in the way.

Remember when Vertamati popped up in the early 90s and actually made ridiculously good bikes? I'd LOVE to see that here, albeit with a DI 2-banger, or a pneumatic valvetrain, ride-by-wire fooper. Either way. and before you say it, Cannondale doesn't count.
MotoX85 wrote:
12 pack - you usually have some wild comments, but I can say I couldn;t agree with you more about your first sentence. Do yo know...
12 pack - you usually have some wild comments, but I can say I couldn;t agree with you more about your first sentence.

Do yo know the guy that drives the car off the assembly line to the parking lot in Detroit makes $50 an hour and sits down and watches until another car comes off the line since he's a union worker and is not allowed to do anything else.
No, I did not know that, but I can believe it. It's also a shame that the 40 dollar per hour forklift operator would be unloading pallets marked "Made in China" on them.

If you want the truth regarding America's motorcycle manufacturing capabilities, look no further than Eric Buel's "EBR" package racer. (the one on the AMSOIL commercial you've seen 4 million times). One motorcycling publication said "it makes a Ducati 848 feel like a dumptruck"
Rooster
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3/4/2014 9:23am
Pro-Circuit doesn't have enough lawyers on staff to try and sell their own motorcycles.
scott_nz
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3/4/2014 9:31am
12 Pack wrote:
No, I did not know that, but I can believe it. It's also a shame that the 40 dollar per hour forklift operator would be unloading...
No, I did not know that, but I can believe it. It's also a shame that the 40 dollar per hour forklift operator would be unloading pallets marked "Made in China" on them.

If you want the truth regarding America's motorcycle manufacturing capabilities, look no further than Eric Buel's "EBR" package racer. (the one on the AMSOIL commercial you've seen 4 million times). One motorcycling publication said "it makes a Ducati 848 feel like a dumptruck"
it did not seem that way at the first round of the world superbikes, it was way off the pace,
haber0051
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3/4/2014 9:40am
12 Pack wrote:
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit...
They could. But, it would cost 35,000USD because in the U.S. you have to pay the forklift operator 40 bucks an hour so he can sit on his ass all day Mon-Fri, then come in on Saturday and make 80 per hour. The tig welder will do the same. The technology, ingenuity, and forward-thinking exist here, but laziness and unions get in the way.

Remember when Vertamati popped up in the early 90s and actually made ridiculously good bikes? I'd LOVE to see that here, albeit with a DI 2-banger, or a pneumatic valvetrain, ride-by-wire fooper. Either way. and before you say it, Cannondale doesn't count.
MotoX85 wrote:
12 pack - you usually have some wild comments, but I can say I couldn;t agree with you more about your first sentence. Do yo know...
12 pack - you usually have some wild comments, but I can say I couldn;t agree with you more about your first sentence.

Do yo know the guy that drives the car off the assembly line to the parking lot in Detroit makes $50 an hour and sits down and watches until another car comes off the line since he's a union worker and is not allowed to do anything else.
12 Pack wrote:
No, I did not know that, but I can believe it. It's also a shame that the 40 dollar per hour forklift operator would be unloading...
No, I did not know that, but I can believe it. It's also a shame that the 40 dollar per hour forklift operator would be unloading pallets marked "Made in China" on them.

If you want the truth regarding America's motorcycle manufacturing capabilities, look no further than Eric Buel's "EBR" package racer. (the one on the AMSOIL commercial you've seen 4 million times). One motorcycling publication said "it makes a Ducati 848 feel like a dumptruck"
worked union and non union there is lazy people on each side. a lot of non union workers make just as much as union.would the riders get paid what there worth if they got together? not trying to start debate about unions, just stating my view.
1488
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3/4/2014 9:53am
it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do the R&D for a bike like this.
Trav138
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3/4/2014 9:54am
haber0051 wrote:
worked union and non union there is lazy people on each side. a lot of non union workers make just as much as union.would the riders...
worked union and non union there is lazy people on each side. a lot of non union workers make just as much as union.would the riders get paid what there worth if they got together? not trying to start debate about unions, just stating my view.
No man its easier to just stereotype and bash unions
Ha ya hire an unskilled, poorly trained fork operator and after he hurts himself,someone else or damages property and you add up your lost man hours, 40.00 an hour will be a bargainWink
This is a non moto topic but the ignorant union bashing is comical on here lol.
12 Pack
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3/4/2014 9:58am
haber0051 wrote:
worked union and non union there is lazy people on each side. a lot of non union workers make just as much as union.would the riders...
worked union and non union there is lazy people on each side. a lot of non union workers make just as much as union.would the riders get paid what there worth if they got together? not trying to start debate about unions, just stating my view.
Trav138 wrote:
No man its easier to just stereotype and bash unions Ha ya hire an unskilled, poorly trained fork operator and after he hurts himself,someone else or...
No man its easier to just stereotype and bash unions
Ha ya hire an unskilled, poorly trained fork operator and after he hurts himself,someone else or damages property and you add up your lost man hours, 40.00 an hour will be a bargainWink
This is a non moto topic but the ignorant union bashing is comical on here lol.
Did you just call forklift operation "skilled labor"? That's the only comedy i see.
usp4u
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3/4/2014 10:06am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2014 10:07am
nc97 wrote:
Pro circuit ...no... JGR ...yes
12 Pack wrote:
JGR independently, mehhh....... JGR's engineering department spearheading Toyota's mass producing capabilities...absofuckinglutely.
delete...I mis-read your post
MotoX85
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3/4/2014 10:13am
I am currently union, I have no problem with what unions where created for. Better pay and better benefits. But that concept has done gone, long gone.

Now all they do is fight to keep people who should NOT have a job, working. Me, a disabled, duty related veteran, who has been given massive amounts of crap and harrassment since I have been back from deployments they told me "well if you show up to work, instead of playing GI Joe, you wouldn;t have these problems" thats word for word. I had to get my congressman involved and now needless to say, I get treated a little better at work now. And my problems with my work where simply trying to use my own time to go to medical appointments.
hvaughn88
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3/4/2014 10:18am
GuyB wrote:
Could they? Probably. But why? To compete against their long-time partners at Kawasaki? The only reason to want to do it would be to start their...
Could they? Probably. But why? To compete against their long-time partners at Kawasaki?

The only reason to want to do it would be to start their own motorcycle company, and the investment would be insane. Besides the bikes they'd build for the team, they'd have to create 400 of them and make them available to consumers.
I think that last sentence pretty much sums it up. Someone stated before that they would have to charge $25K per bike. To me, that's doesn't seem ridiculous if you factor in what a race ready bike actually costs. But to produce 400 of them...you hit the nail on the head. There's not 400 people that actually need a pro level race ready bike.
FreshTopEnd
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3/4/2014 10:24am
They could, but it doesn't make any economic sense given the size of the market and the ridiculous upfront costs for a full on production facility. Same for JGR.

Plus, I get the feeling the Pro Circuit folks are pretty happy doing what they are doing without introducing an entirely different scope of operations. Focus is rewarding.
early
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3/4/2014 10:28am
scott_nz wrote:
it did not seem that way at the first round of the world superbikes, it was way off the pace,
In their defense the weren't racing against 848 they were racing Panigales and literbikes. Still I dont take much of what a "Motorcycle Publication" has to say to heart anymore. Interesting bike tho and glad to see they are making a go of it just sucks the WSBK appearance was so dissappointing.

There is difference between what the Pro Circuit does and what an OEM does. The way they build their components doesnt necessarily mean they would build a better (commercially viable) motorcycle than whats already out there.
GuyB
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3/4/2014 10:38am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I think that last sentence pretty much sums it up. Someone stated before that they would have to charge $25K per bike. To me, that's doesn't...
I think that last sentence pretty much sums it up. Someone stated before that they would have to charge $25K per bike. To me, that's doesn't seem ridiculous if you factor in what a race ready bike actually costs. But to produce 400 of them...you hit the nail on the head. There's not 400 people that actually need a pro level race ready bike.
I think that's $26K based on a production bike. My guess is that it would go up substantially if you were talking about a limited-production frame/engine package.
CR250Rider
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3/4/2014 10:47am
Show me a forklift operator that makes $40 hr.

Strawman

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