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Stockholm
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Edited Date/Time
3/22/2013 7:18pm
Would be nice to hear his perspective in this 250F vs 250 smoker constant debate. If he put Bagget on 250 smoker, would he be more or less competetive than on his 250F (in the 250 class)? I figured we are all biased, even Payton who basically is forced to promote only Fs these days, tight bands to Kwacker, maybe he shoots himself in the foot by saying anything in favoring smokers, but would be nice to hear his view since all the rest of us seems wondering in the dark.
I figure, some of you maybe know him, and maybe at the right opportunity could just spit it out to be a sport towards the rest of us.
In my book, could be an article worth publishing for all I know...
I figure, some of you maybe know him, and maybe at the right opportunity could just spit it out to be a sport towards the rest of us.
In my book, could be an article worth publishing for all I know...
The same was said in 01 for motoGP, almost verbatim.
Peyton is in favor.
The Shop
I don't know where you guys get the idea OEMs are going to fine or look down on their riders/employees/contractors for saying positive things about 2-strokes.. Mitch has said plenty favorable about them over the years. I imagine he's getting tired of being asked the questions though.
I'm a Broncos fan, and I'd even be insulted!
I'm sure that if he were speaking completely honestly, he'd say a 2-stroke would be preferable in any comparison wherein the displacements were equal. In other words, a 250 2-stroke would be a much more potent race machine than a 250 4-stroke, ESPECIALLY in the hands of a talented rider like Baggett.
Quoted in MXA, Sept. 2001.
I especially like the "unfortunately" part. He knew what was coming and after dominating that class with his 2 strokes for the past decade had to completely rethink his way of doing business. I can completely understand why he would not want 250 2 strokes in with the 250 4 strokes now after all his investment in the 4 stroke program. It was as screwed up then as it is now. The 125 got killed off and shouldn't have. That is the one bike that still has its place in motocross both here in the U.S. and abroad. It needs to come back.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Mitch-Payton-on-250s-in-t…
Pit Row
But no matter what the bike quality still plays a big role. I know we get our heads wrapped around the notion that the fastest guys will win no matter what, and that's true, but only to an extent. Look at MC switching to Suzuki, or James on the Yamahas, or even Dungey's marginal success since going Orange (I believe it's marginal, compared to his results on the Suzuki, but I don't have actual numbers to support that, so feel free to prove me wrong).
Seems Payton has been pretty sober previously, I picture him as a person that has enough leverage, courage to be sincere in a rather heated, important topic, add his amazing knowledge.
I hope someone would find the time to ask him...
But this was at a time (late 90's early 2000's) when Supercross and Motocross were trying to go mainstream. Like main mainstream. I think with that commitment, any grass-rootedness becomes irrelevant to the larger cause. NASCAR and F1 don't really care about affordability of local racing, or ease of maintenance, or model diversity. Their main goal is to provide the best racing business model, and help their sponsors sell products. Notice I did not specifically say "sell cars" because I don't feel that's the entire focus of either form of racing. So in the AMA, having a viable "support class" became less of a priority. The 250 class is still a feeder system to the 450 premiere class, but once you're on a solid team in the 250s, you've essentially made it already. The real feeder system now is the amateur events like LLs, where 250 two strokes are legal in the 250 class.
Where we get screwed is the "production rule", I think. If AMA pro dirtbike racing was run on true works bikes, run what you brung style, then the manufacturers could afford to have more variation in their model lineups, instead of striving to sell the bikes the pros are riding in a production package. There's a ton of Chevy car and truck models, but only a handful of Chevy sprint racers.
Hopefully what I'm saying somewhat makes sense.
Also, as bad as the 250 2stk might have been in the 450 class, nobody ever used the 250f instead.
WhKnuckle, I maintain that 250Fs are not "only" a tick or two slower than 450s now. On almost any track, pro riders are several seconds per lap faster on average on the bigger bike. Don't get fooled by the occasional SX lap times wherein several world-class riders turn faster 250F laptimes than the ones posted by the 10th place 450s; the 450 is still a much faster machine. Likewise with a 250T. Harder to ride, sure, but in the hands of a capable rider (pro,) still faster.
Closest thing to parity we may have is 150cc 4 stk in 125 schoolboy but nobody wants to do that, all about that 85 class tho.
Want to see Mitch get excited? Go talk to him about building a 250 2T for Mammoth.
Post a reply to: Can someone in the know, please ask Payton about this 250F vs 250 crap.