Bowers back issue.

The Rock
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HAIKU, HI US
2/2/2015 11:26am
I've been going thru the same thing for the last 4 years. Last November I had a full disc replacement (ProDisc) to my L4-L5. Up until...
I've been going thru the same thing for the last 4 years. Last November I had a full disc replacement (ProDisc) to my L4-L5. Up until 4 days ago I have been taking 200-400mg of Oxy a day and totally suicidal. They no longer worked no matter what I took so I decide to switch to Suboxone. I can honestly say for the first time in 10 years my back feels good! Planning on taking subs for a couple more days then stopping everything. The years of pain pills fired the natural pain receptors in my brain which made the pain much worse than it should be.

I wish you the best and know what your going thru. Get help before its to late. There is special treatment centers that focus on severe pain. I almost went to one but got approved for the ProDisc and it changed my life. Look up the Lumbar ProDisc replacement!!


Great news Chris and best of luck! Close to ten years ago I read about the artificial disc in the Wall Street Journal and contacted the company and asked about racing MX afterwards. They couldn't offer any guidance there except to say they didn't recommend it.

The discs were 25K and insurance wasn't paying for it. What is the price today and how much did your insurance cover?
2/2/2015 11:45am
I've been going thru the same thing for the last 4 years. Last November I had a full disc replacement (ProDisc) to my L4-L5. Up until...
I've been going thru the same thing for the last 4 years. Last November I had a full disc replacement (ProDisc) to my L4-L5. Up until 4 days ago I have been taking 200-400mg of Oxy a day and totally suicidal. They no longer worked no matter what I took so I decide to switch to Suboxone. I can honestly say for the first time in 10 years my back feels good! Planning on taking subs for a couple more days then stopping everything. The years of pain pills fired the natural pain receptors in my brain which made the pain much worse than it should be.

I wish you the best and know what your going thru. Get help before its to late. There is special treatment centers that focus on severe pain. I almost went to one but got approved for the ProDisc and it changed my life. Look up the Lumbar ProDisc replacement!!


The Rock wrote:
Great news Chris and best of luck! Close to ten years ago I read about the artificial disc in the Wall Street Journal and contacted the...
Great news Chris and best of luck! Close to ten years ago I read about the artificial disc in the Wall Street Journal and contacted the company and asked about racing MX afterwards. They couldn't offer any guidance there except to say they didn't recommend it.

The discs were 25K and insurance wasn't paying for it. What is the price today and how much did your insurance cover?
It's FDA approved now so the insurance companies cover it. Mine was around 36K and my insurance covered the whole thing. This ProDisc really saved my life and I highly recommend it to anyone with disc problems. Right now the Doctor says no limitations on anything I do and the more movement the better! I'm doing some mellow skiing next week and there was no way in hell I could do that before the surgery. By summer I will be able to ride again, but probably won't out of fear that I could hurt my lower back again.
The Rock
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HAIKU, HI US
2/2/2015 11:50am
zippy895 wrote:
I have used a similar traction table for my neck.
cant see it being a cure all.
The Rock wrote:
Nothing is a cure all hence [i]can help most of us with back issues.[/i] Regarding your use of the word "similar" street bikes are similar to...
Nothing is a cure all hence can help most of us with back issues.

Regarding your use of the word "similar" street bikes are similar to MX bikes but there not the same thing either. Only a Vax D table exerts negative Gs as the spine is contracting after the traction cycle. This is particularly helpful with people with herniated discs as the negative Gs helps pull the material back into the disc. It's all explained on the website.

zippy895-Can you direct me to a link for the traction table for the neck please? I had heard Vax D was working on one but have yet to see it Thanks.
zippy895 wrote:
[img]http://static.scriphessco.com/assets/item/large/8610021L.jpg[/img]and[img]https://ptclinic.com/websites/779/website/photos/IMG_2557.JPG[/img]
and
Thanks zippy895. What company is that?

I went on the Vax D website for their cervical solution but no pictures just this text:

Cervical Treatment
Neck-photoNeck and arm pain are common symptoms affecting as much as 50% of individuals sometime during their lives. Traditionally, patients have been treated with a combination of medications and cervical traction.

Current devices apply cervical traction with a halter or harness/slide mechanism with the head and neck in some degree of flexion. The current standard protocol includes the use of tensions in the 25-50 lb range; the use of an angle of 15° to 20° of flexion for all clinical indications; treatment time of 5-10 minutes; and linear (straight-line) modes of either static or intermittent tension. We have found that none of these standard protocols are useful for treating chronic cervical pain from herniated or degenerative disc disease.

There are multiple randomized clinical trials of standard traction demonstrating that there is no significant benefit for traction over the control treatments. According the textbook ‘The Adult Spine, Principles & Practice’ and ‘The Quebec Task Force on Spinal Disorders’, there is no scientific evidence to support the use of traction despite its widespread application in practice.

The kinematics of the cervical spine is not determined solely by the passive elements (discs, facets, ligaments and vertebrae) but is strongly influenced by the active elements (the muscles and tendons). Flexion of the head relative to the thorax (due to three dimensional movements) allows an infinite number of postures assumed by the cervical vertebrae, each produced by different amounts of contraction of the various cervical muscles.

In order to ‘decompress’ the discs in the cervical spine, it is critical to avoid muscle guarding (and spasm) that will not only resist the pull but will apply a ‘counter’ force to the tension and will actually increase the disc pressure. The incorrect angle of pull can actually ‘trigger’ muscle guarding.

The revolutionary Genesis technology combines applying tension in a logarithmic time/force curve, and establishing an optimal ‘arc’ or ‘curve’ of the tension source (either in flexion or extension).

Patients are now able to really relax the head and neck muscles during treatment, while the tension reduces the load on the spine. Most patients may now be treated within a range of 10-22 lbs of tension, each with their own specific programmed dynamic arc. Patients treated for cervical decompression is placed on the table in the supine (face-up) position, with their head at the tensioning end of the table.

The G2 Cervical system uses VAX-D’s cervical protocols, which include proprietary hardware, software and treatment methods developed exclusively by VAX-D.

Patients receiving VAX-D cervical treatment are treated wearing a harness with a supportive cervical/neck collar. The collar is a critical part of the harness that is designed to allow some mobility of the patient’s head and neck during distraction, while providing the total support of a circumferential lifting system.
Hgibbs566
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2/2/2015 2:06pm
I have rehab in my close future. I will absolutely end up dead if i cant shake my pill consumption. Ive tried to not take pills-and...
I have rehab in my close future. I will absolutely end up dead if i cant shake my pill consumption. Ive tried to not take pills-and didnt for two years- but the pain was debilitating to the point of just wanting to die. If id owned a gun id be dead a dozen times over from pain. Pills make it tolerable, but withdrawal is as bad as the pain. My life is nothing but miserable, and my familys life is as well because of my stupid back pain. I just took 20 percocets in two days. That ought to tell you how badly im doing.
Hgibbs566 wrote:
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption...
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption and find a better program for your pain. I was in a similar situation as you with my back and was majorly against seeing a pain management doctor because I thought they only pushed pills. I reluctantly went and he got me on a program getting injections acupuncture etc and got me down to one pill a day. I now only go every few months for shots.
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If...
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If these last surgeries dont help then i dont know what course of action ill take.
The program I'm on now took me about 3 and a half years to get all the surgeries done to eliminate pain, get on a proper program to maintain not having that pain and then gradually got off the pills.

I just want you to know there's light at the end if the tunnel and it's not a train.

The Shop

2/2/2015 3:20pm
I really appreciate all the helpful and kind commentsSmile it lifted my spirits a lot today. I usually perservere when my life turns to shit, but this has been a twelve year ordeal. I just keep thinking of how awesome my kx250 is going to be and it keeps me motivated to get up and stir. Thanks, yoi guys!
Seamorbutts
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Lake Charles, LA US
2/2/2015 4:22pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2015 4:25pm
I have rehab in my close future. I will absolutely end up dead if i cant shake my pill consumption. Ive tried to not take pills-and...
I have rehab in my close future. I will absolutely end up dead if i cant shake my pill consumption. Ive tried to not take pills-and didnt for two years- but the pain was debilitating to the point of just wanting to die. If id owned a gun id be dead a dozen times over from pain. Pills make it tolerable, but withdrawal is as bad as the pain. My life is nothing but miserable, and my familys life is as well because of my stupid back pain. I just took 20 percocets in two days. That ought to tell you how badly im doing.
Hgibbs566 wrote:
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption...
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption and find a better program for your pain. I was in a similar situation as you with my back and was majorly against seeing a pain management doctor because I thought they only pushed pills. I reluctantly went and he got me on a program getting injections acupuncture etc and got me down to one pill a day. I now only go every few months for shots.
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If...
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If these last surgeries dont help then i dont know what course of action ill take.
Look man, I literally know where you're coming from. After my last surgery 5 years ago, its been down hill every since. The 3 level lumbar fusion never fused all the way. Now I can barely stand long enough to fix my son a sandwich. I wore holes in 3 sets of sheets last year from the constant twisting and turning in bed (I have to lay down most of the day). Its the worst pain imaginable!!!!!!!!!! But even with my wife finally leaving me, and my finances crashing all around me, I still wouldn't end my life because of my son. Don't get me wrong, every day when I wake up to pure living hell I sure think about how nice it would be to end it all, but I still can't because of him. I'm scheduled to have the spinal stimulator implant for my pain installed this month. They wanted to put rods and screws to tie my back together since its accentually broken, but I refused. Maybe you should try the stimulator. They let you try it out for a week before implanting it surgically. Good luck...
Mia
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US
2/2/2015 4:38pm
All right lets get this "Back" on track .

Tyler's back issue is something he has delt with all his entire life. Nothing new.
He was born with the defect .
He does not do pain meds to deal..

He may have it fixed after Sx

He has other physical limitations that he deals with also, the types of things that makes most riders quit or contemplate retirement .

Thanks for all the fans and support
2/2/2015 5:08pm
Mia wrote:
All right lets get this "Back" on track . Tyler's back issue is something he has delt with all his entire life. Nothing new. He was...
All right lets get this "Back" on track .

Tyler's back issue is something he has delt with all his entire life. Nothing new.
He was born with the defect .
He does not do pain meds to deal..

He may have it fixed after Sx

He has other physical limitations that he deals with also, the types of things that makes most riders quit or contemplate retirement .

Thanks for all the fans and support
I told my wife the other night that Bowers has to cry himself to sleep after every race. Id say a person in his type of physical condition achirves greater success when surgery is involved then someone who isnt in the best shape like myself lol. Core strength can immeasurably help in the healing process. I wish him well and hope he gets it fixed soon! Made me a fan knowing what hes dealing with.
2/2/2015 5:14pm
Look man, I literally know where you're coming from. After my last surgery 5 years ago, its been down hill every since. The 3 level lumbar...
Look man, I literally know where you're coming from. After my last surgery 5 years ago, its been down hill every since. The 3 level lumbar fusion never fused all the way. Now I can barely stand long enough to fix my son a sandwich. I wore holes in 3 sets of sheets last year from the constant twisting and turning in bed (I have to lay down most of the day). Its the worst pain imaginable!!!!!!!!!! But even with my wife finally leaving me, and my finances crashing all around me, I still wouldn't end my life because of my son. Don't get me wrong, every day when I wake up to pure living hell I sure think about how nice it would be to end it all, but I still can't because of him. I'm scheduled to have the spinal stimulator implant for my pain installed this month. They wanted to put rods and screws to tie my back together since its accentually broken, but I refused. Maybe you should try the stimulator. They let you try it out for a week before implanting it surgically. Good luck...
I was so heartened by everybodys encouragement that I actually cancelled my pain management appointments today. Had a good talk with my wife and im going to get off the pills and then tackle the neck disc surgery head on. The cash I was paying for visits and prescriptions is going into a bank account that ill use for bike related purchases. If Im progressing and stay clean she said a new bike is feasible next year. Im hopeful!
zippy895
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5495
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
2/2/2015 5:36pm
Mia wrote:
All right lets get this "Back" on track . Tyler's back issue is something he has delt with all his entire life. Nothing new. He was...
All right lets get this "Back" on track .

Tyler's back issue is something he has delt with all his entire life. Nothing new.
He was born with the defect .
He does not do pain meds to deal..

He may have it fixed after Sx

He has other physical limitations that he deals with also, the types of things that makes most riders quit or contemplate retirement .

Thanks for all the fans and support
its impressive what he is doing at that level.goes to show, these pros can really make it look easy.
zippy895
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Daytona Beach, FL US
2/2/2015 5:43pm
I was so heartened by everybodys encouragement that I actually cancelled my pain management appointments today. Had a good talk with my wife and im going...
I was so heartened by everybodys encouragement that I actually cancelled my pain management appointments today. Had a good talk with my wife and im going to get off the pills and then tackle the neck disc surgery head on. The cash I was paying for visits and prescriptions is going into a bank account that ill use for bike related purchases. If Im progressing and stay clean she said a new bike is feasible next year. Im hopeful!
you have a wife who is supporting you!
another ,I guess "plus" is,the older you get, daily pain numbs out a bit. yea! old age!
2/2/2015 6:33pm
Hgibbs566 wrote:
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption...
It takes a big man to accept he has problems and fix them. I think you need to talk to your doctors about your pill consumption and find a better program for your pain. I was in a similar situation as you with my back and was majorly against seeing a pain management doctor because I thought they only pushed pills. I reluctantly went and he got me on a program getting injections acupuncture etc and got me down to one pill a day. I now only go every few months for shots.
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If...
Sadly, I dont want to quit pills. Not until i have had all these surgeries finished. I wont make it through this pain without pills. If these last surgeries dont help then i dont know what course of action ill take.
Look man, I literally know where you're coming from. After my last surgery 5 years ago, its been down hill every since. The 3 level lumbar...
Look man, I literally know where you're coming from. After my last surgery 5 years ago, its been down hill every since. The 3 level lumbar fusion never fused all the way. Now I can barely stand long enough to fix my son a sandwich. I wore holes in 3 sets of sheets last year from the constant twisting and turning in bed (I have to lay down most of the day). Its the worst pain imaginable!!!!!!!!!! But even with my wife finally leaving me, and my finances crashing all around me, I still wouldn't end my life because of my son. Don't get me wrong, every day when I wake up to pure living hell I sure think about how nice it would be to end it all, but I still can't because of him. I'm scheduled to have the spinal stimulator implant for my pain installed this month. They wanted to put rods and screws to tie my back together since its accentually broken, but I refused. Maybe you should try the stimulator. They let you try it out for a week before implanting it surgically. Good luck...
Damn guys, both situations sound serious.
I don't have much t add other than western medicine might not have all the answers. The best results I ever had with a blown out disc and hip that was 70% gone from bone atrophy- was lots of yoga. That kept me going for a long time- 7:30 every morning. But your deal sounds much worse.

I was finally told by a hip doc that I was walking on a broken hip every day. Well, the paychecks are still needed and I gotta get up and work every day. It's not manual labor or anything but it was a challenge.. FInally got that hip done with full replacement and I was a new man. Best of luck to you guys you are not alone.
2/2/2015 7:59pm
Basically I got this topic sidetracked because I was trying to point out that l5 disc pain is no joke, and Bowers is really to be admired for the amount of pain I know hes probably enduring every time he goes to bed or gets out of bed. I dont know how he does it, but I pray that he doesnt overdo it before he can get it repaired. Stay healthy, Bowers! You big tall bastard lol.
zippy895
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Daytona Beach, FL US
2/2/2015 8:23pm
Basically I got this topic sidetracked because I was trying to point out that l5 disc pain is no joke, and Bowers is really to be...
Basically I got this topic sidetracked because I was trying to point out that l5 disc pain is no joke, and Bowers is really to be admired for the amount of pain I know hes probably enduring every time he goes to bed or gets out of bed. I dont know how he does it, but I pray that he doesnt overdo it before he can get it repaired. Stay healthy, Bowers! You big tall bastard lol.
you didn't sidetrack the topic.
it was meant for people going through similar or any back problems to relate.
Bowers is a bad ass .you know he's not feeling the love of a 100% healthy body while battling the best.
Seamorbutts
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Lake Charles, LA US
2/2/2015 9:08pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2015 9:14pm
Thanks man, I really appreciate the kind words. I know there is always someone worse off somewhere, at least thats what i try to remind myself. Anyway, I was trying to give a few words of encouragement. You know, remind people that they're not alone.


Anyway, who's ready for RV to kicks some ass.. Lol, Moto on guys!
JM485
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Davis, CA US
2/2/2015 9:17pm
Man, reading through this thread has been pretty tough. Ace and Seamor, I really hope you guys find relief. Just keep fighting all you can, you have a LOT of guys pulling for you on here and you are inspiring for us all. Reading about the back issues people face not just in this thread but in others has definately opened my eyes, and I've done quite a bit to strengthen my core muscles even though I'm a younge guy to try to combat the pounding Mx can give your back. Keep positive guys, there is always hope for the future and I truly hope you can find relief in the near future.
2/3/2015 1:32pm
JM485 wrote:
Man, reading through this thread has been pretty tough. Ace and Seamor, I really hope you guys find relief. Just keep fighting all you can, you...
Man, reading through this thread has been pretty tough. Ace and Seamor, I really hope you guys find relief. Just keep fighting all you can, you have a LOT of guys pulling for you on here and you are inspiring for us all. Reading about the back issues people face not just in this thread but in others has definately opened my eyes, and I've done quite a bit to strengthen my core muscles even though I'm a younge guy to try to combat the pounding Mx can give your back. Keep positive guys, there is always hope for the future and I truly hope you can find relief in the near future.
Ive tried many times over many years to just stop taking pills. For some reason, all the positivity you guys showed to me(a total stranger) really lit a fire in me for some reason. I flushed 40 percocets down the toilet and cancelled my future pain management appts. Woke up today with ZERO withdrawals. I cannot explain it. I absolutely feel great, but i shouldnt lol. We will see how it goes, but Im totally committed!
STBY
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50
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Eatonville, WA US
2/3/2015 2:13pm
Right in man the mind if s so powerful, keep focused you can do it! Make a plan and stick to it. Try to loose a few lbs this will help in the long run, make your family the focus of your wellbeing! Google "treat your own back" its a book by Robin Mckenzie very helpful read! I've had L4, L5, S1 disc problems for the past 5 years. I made a plan with the help of my doctors and stuck with it! You can do it...
zippy895
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Daytona Beach, FL US
2/3/2015 5:40pm
Ive tried many times over many years to just stop taking pills. For some reason, all the positivity you guys showed to me(a total stranger) really...
Ive tried many times over many years to just stop taking pills. For some reason, all the positivity you guys showed to me(a total stranger) really lit a fire in me for some reason. I flushed 40 percocets down the toilet and cancelled my future pain management appts. Woke up today with ZERO withdrawals. I cannot explain it. I absolutely feel great, but i shouldnt lol. We will see how it goes, but Im totally committed!
do the same with inflation type foods in this mindset your in.if possible.
what worked for me in diet change,one day I said ,fuck this shit ive been eating for 50 years.burnt out of candy,soda,bread,etc.
that paleo thread made me realize ,much more healthier food out there.
Insider347
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Location
Raleigh, NC US
2/3/2015 7:14pm
Let me tell you something about the pain pills. You are not alone and nothing to be ashamed of. They work but just mask the pain. I am in recovery from my addiction to opiods since 2001. I have posted this before but it did ruin my life as I knew it and took away what racing I had left. I took 30 ten milligram hydrocodone everyday and 60 mg Avinza (delayed release morphine). Tolerance builds quick and withdrawl SUCKS! I then was on Suboxone for many years. I see a psychologist every 2 weeks and the director of addiction at UNC. Throughout the years I had my relapses from pain and cravings. I have a supportive family and wife. I actually consulted with a spine surgeon this morning on resolving my pain from fracture in T7 and T9. I won't go on and on about too much info but please stay positive. If you really need to talk some please let me know. I have educated myself for the last decade on this issue and I'm no Dr. but have discovered things that helped me against some bad advice. Keep your chin up and it will work out.
JM485
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2/3/2015 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2015 7:25pm
JM485 wrote:
Man, reading through this thread has been pretty tough. Ace and Seamor, I really hope you guys find relief. Just keep fighting all you can, you...
Man, reading through this thread has been pretty tough. Ace and Seamor, I really hope you guys find relief. Just keep fighting all you can, you have a LOT of guys pulling for you on here and you are inspiring for us all. Reading about the back issues people face not just in this thread but in others has definately opened my eyes, and I've done quite a bit to strengthen my core muscles even though I'm a younge guy to try to combat the pounding Mx can give your back. Keep positive guys, there is always hope for the future and I truly hope you can find relief in the near future.
Ive tried many times over many years to just stop taking pills. For some reason, all the positivity you guys showed to me(a total stranger) really...
Ive tried many times over many years to just stop taking pills. For some reason, all the positivity you guys showed to me(a total stranger) really lit a fire in me for some reason. I flushed 40 percocets down the toilet and cancelled my future pain management appts. Woke up today with ZERO withdrawals. I cannot explain it. I absolutely feel great, but i shouldnt lol. We will see how it goes, but Im totally committed!
Man that is great to hear! I wish you the best in sticking with your plan, but even if you hit a bump in the road it is never too late to get back on the right track. Glad to hear we were able to do at least a little bit to help you out, stay strong!

Edit: And don't forget, nobody in the moto community is a total stranger, that's what makes it so awesome to be a part of.

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