Benoit on two stroke

PabstBR11
Profile picture for user PabstBR11
Posts
219
Joined
9/29/2014
Location
Southlake, TX US
PabstBR11
Edited Date/Time 6/29/2015 9:25am
Not sure if this has been talked about, but i was watching the recap vid and noticed the #1 plate holder ripping a two stroke ktm. Was wondering if he runs it all season against the four strokes?
|
h&m_cycle
Profile picture for user h&m_cycle
Posts
4412
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH US
h&m_cycle 6/26/2015 8:15am
6/26/2015 8:15am Edited Date/Time 6/26/2015 8:26am
He's the point leader, he can't switch back & forth either, like last year..
From 2014 ripping the smoker, I don't know how he's doing it here... 2 strokes are a disadvantage in the mud...
Read it on Vital...


https://youtu.be/oiU89Fm40Yw
PabstBR11
Profile picture for user PabstBR11
Posts
219
Joined
9/29/2014
Location
Southlake, TX US
PabstBR11 6/26/2015 8:21am
6/26/2015 8:21am
h&m_cycle wrote:
He's the point leader, he can't switch back & forth either, like last year.. From 2014 ripping the smoker, I don't know how he's doing it...
He's the point leader, he can't switch back & forth either, like last year..
From 2014 ripping the smoker, I don't know how he's doing it here... 2 strokes are a disadvantage in the mud...
Read it on Vital...


https://youtu.be/oiU89Fm40Yw
Ballsy move id think with all the progress the four strokes have made. He cant switch back and forth becasue hes the points leader or no one can?
justpinit
Profile picture for user justpinit
Posts
434
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
British Columbia CA
justpinit 6/26/2015 8:32am
6/26/2015 8:32am
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 6/26/2015 8:36am
6/26/2015 8:36am
A 2 stroke leading the series? No f'n way, must be a typo. 2 strokes aren't competitive and besides, they are dead. Read it on Vital...

The Shop

See All »
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 6/26/2015 8:37am
6/26/2015 8:37am
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
A less expensive bike was more competitive. We must change the rules. LMAO.
justpinit
Profile picture for user justpinit
Posts
434
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
British Columbia CA
justpinit 6/26/2015 8:51am
6/26/2015 8:51am
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
newmann wrote:
A less expensive bike was more competitive. We must change the rules. LMAO.
I think now what is really pissing off the CMRC is that despite their best efforts, he is still winning!!

On a bone stock 250 SX with an FMF pipe and silencer.
mxracer239
Profile picture for user mxracer239
Posts
174
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Delaware, AR US
mxracer239 6/26/2015 9:08am
6/26/2015 9:08am
It might get very interesting if the 250 2 strokes cld race in the nationals in the 250 class
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 6/26/2015 9:28am
6/26/2015 9:28am
mxracer239 wrote:
It might get very interesting if the 250 2 strokes cld race in the nationals in the 250 class
No doubt some of these privateer efforts that peter out mid season could probably stand a better chance to make it through the season. 250 class is a tough one financially.
mxracer239
Profile picture for user mxracer239
Posts
174
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Delaware, AR US
mxracer239 6/26/2015 9:38am
6/26/2015 9:38am
Wonder how much a big pro team is spending a year in the 250 class?
hellion
Profile picture for user hellion
Posts
1035
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Westfield, MA US
hellion 6/26/2015 9:39am
6/26/2015 9:39am Edited Date/Time 6/26/2015 9:41am
Sorry Newmann but your logic has no place in the US Nationals. Here, we must bend over to the factory's wishes to the detriment of the sport. This subject is always on the surface here at Vital, and I doubt DC pays any attention anymore. It is a shame though.

I was bummed when they made the new rules in Canada, but I couldn't be more please with the result. It flies in the face of all the 'Powers That Be', that a bike as a finished race bike that probably cost less than half of the four strokes is more than competitive. And that cost is just the build cost, imagine the bottom line at the end of the season factoring in all the engine rebuilds for each!
Suns_PSD
Profile picture for user Suns_PSD
Posts
989
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX US
Suns_PSD 6/26/2015 9:45am
6/26/2015 9:45am
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
That's crazy that he has to run a stock engine. Wow!
brewrabb
Profile picture for user brewrabb
Posts
362
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA
brewrabb 6/26/2015 9:50am
6/26/2015 9:50am
h&m_cycle wrote:
He's the point leader, he can't switch back & forth either, like last year.. From 2014 ripping the smoker, I don't know how he's doing it...
He's the point leader, he can't switch back & forth either, like last year..
From 2014 ripping the smoker, I don't know how he's doing it here... 2 strokes are a disadvantage in the mud...
Read it on Vital...


https://youtu.be/oiU89Fm40Yw
PabstBR11 wrote:
Ballsy move id think with all the progress the four strokes have made. He cant switch back and forth becasue hes the points leader or no...
Ballsy move id think with all the progress the four strokes have made. He cant switch back and forth becasue hes the points leader or no one can?
Yep, and he even won $200 dollars for the holeshot.
queen of spodes 6/26/2015 9:57am
6/26/2015 9:57am
What's crazy is how so many 250 teams still use the four-strokes when they obviously cost more to race.
Zesiger 112
Profile picture for user Zesiger 112
Posts
2197
Joined
3/4/2013
Location
Pink Hill, NC US
Fantasy
2020th
Zesiger 112 6/26/2015 10:09am
6/26/2015 10:09am
I'm going to die laughing if KTM introduces a SXS sx250 to run in Canada. Hey it's "stock"
yak651
Profile picture for user yak651
Posts
6683
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
214th
yak651 6/26/2015 10:55am
6/26/2015 10:55am
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
newmann wrote:
A less expensive bike was more competitive. We must change the rules. LMAO.
justpinit wrote:
I think now what is really pissing off the CMRC is that despite their best efforts, he is still winning!! On a bone stock 250 SX...
I think now what is really pissing off the CMRC is that despite their best efforts, he is still winning!!

On a bone stock 250 SX with an FMF pipe and silencer.
Wouldn't be surprised if they go to AMA type rules next year to prevent this from happening again...
Steadman
Profile picture for user Steadman
Posts
680
Joined
11/23/2014
Location
CA
Steadman 6/26/2015 11:02am
6/26/2015 11:02am
queen of spodes wrote:
What's crazy is how so many 250 teams still use the four-strokes when they obviously cost more to race.
I agree.

I can't help but think that there are fewer riders with the ability to race a two-stroke at that level. It's cool what Kaven is doing.
theycallmeebryan 6/26/2015 11:12am
6/26/2015 11:12am
Zesiger 112 wrote:
I'm going to die laughing if KTM introduces a SXS sx250 to run in Canada. Hey it's "stock"
So.... the 2017 SX250? Can you imagine the SX250 dropping 5-10lbs just like the SXF's?
Jarid332
Profile picture for user Jarid332
Posts
5324
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Somewhere north of Toronto CA
Fantasy
1658th
Jarid332 6/26/2015 11:22am
6/26/2015 11:22am
Kaven would be fast on any bike you throw him on. The dude has a lot of talent.

Pit Row

See All »
IceMan446
Profile picture for user IceMan446
Posts
4671
Joined
1/10/2010
Location
Sacramento, CA US
IceMan446 6/26/2015 11:32am
6/26/2015 11:32am
newmann wrote:
No doubt some of these privateer efforts that peter out mid season could probably stand a better chance to make it through the season. 250 class...
No doubt some of these privateer efforts that peter out mid season could probably stand a better chance to make it through the season. 250 class is a tough one financially.
Except, they would be racing 450s.

No one is going to win on a 250 two stroke in the US series.

JBernard_401
Profile picture for user JBernard_401
Posts
1320
Joined
10/29/2013
Location
Boulder, CO US
JBernard_401 6/26/2015 11:32am
6/26/2015 11:32am
are there any other professional sports that limit an engine like that (you can dump unlimited amount of $ into your 250F but your 250T has to be stock engine) i know theres 'limited' classes in drag racing, but they pretty much all run the exact same engine i believe.

are they allowed to run leaded, oxygenated fuel in CA pro series?
JW381
Profile picture for user JW381
Posts
10642
Joined
7/21/2009
Location
Harrisburg, OR US
JW381 6/26/2015 12:06pm
6/26/2015 12:06pm
That whole "bone stock engine" rule is such BS. Beyond pumped that this guy is still killing it, despite that backasswards rule.
Sheriff245 6/26/2015 12:10pm
6/26/2015 12:10pm
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
He actually did the west coast races on the 4 stroke and switched to the 2 stroke mid-season. It kind of makes sense since the east coast tracks are generally more sandy. He was already leading the series when he made the switch, but he sure turned it up a notch with the 2 stroke. I saw him ride at the Deschambault National, he seemed to have an unfair advantage on that bike. It was a rocketship.

That said, I think stock 250 vs. mod 250F is fair compromise. The 2 stroke still has the power and torque edge, but the 250F has more traction and is less tiring to ride...
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8027
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 6/26/2015 12:31pm
6/26/2015 12:31pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
are there any other professional sports that limit an engine like that (you can dump unlimited amount of $ into your 250F but your 250T has...
are there any other professional sports that limit an engine like that (you can dump unlimited amount of $ into your 250F but your 250T has to be stock engine) i know theres 'limited' classes in drag racing, but they pretty much all run the exact same engine i believe.

are they allowed to run leaded, oxygenated fuel in CA pro series?
Some jet ski classes allow different rules for different machines..
nytsmaC
Profile picture for user nytsmaC
Posts
5960
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off CA
nytsmaC 6/26/2015 12:33pm
6/26/2015 12:33pm
justpinit wrote:
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the...
Last year he switched between 2 & 4 stroke depending on the track. This year they changed the rules and now a rider that starts the series on a 2-stroke has to stay on a 2-stroke. They also changed the engine rules where the 2-stroke has to be bone stock inside. You can build a $50,000 time bomb 250 4-stroke, but leave that 2-smoker alone!

Affectionately known as the "Benoit Rules"
Sheriff245 wrote:
He actually did the west coast races on the 4 stroke and switched to the 2 stroke mid-season. It kind of makes sense since the east...
He actually did the west coast races on the 4 stroke and switched to the 2 stroke mid-season. It kind of makes sense since the east coast tracks are generally more sandy. He was already leading the series when he made the switch, but he sure turned it up a notch with the 2 stroke. I saw him ride at the Deschambault National, he seemed to have an unfair advantage on that bike. It was a rocketship.

That said, I think stock 250 vs. mod 250F is fair compromise. The 2 stroke still has the power and torque edge, but the 250F has more traction and is less tiring to ride...
The biggest difference is the reliability.. How many 4-stroke 250s are DNFing at that level? Decotis already has one engine related DNF, even Metcalfe has had it happen now on the 450. I'd be shocked if Benoit has one all year long. Speaks volumes. Hard to win a championship when you spot your competition 20-25 points because your engine couldn't finish the race.

If I were on a 250F against Benoit on his 250SX, I'd be more worried about my bike blowing up than his bike being faster than mine. Especially heading into a mud race.
shuggs
Profile picture for user shuggs
Posts
1574
Joined
8/6/2008
Location
Dunfermline GB
shuggs 6/26/2015 1:08pm
6/26/2015 1:08pm
Zesiger 112 wrote:
I'm going to die laughing if KTM introduces a SXS sx250 to run in Canada. Hey it's "stock"
That would be the nuts, surely KTM have some 'power' now so no need to. bend to jap wishes....
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 6/26/2015 1:09pm
6/26/2015 1:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2015 1:10pm
newmann wrote:
No doubt some of these privateer efforts that peter out mid season could probably stand a better chance to make it through the season. 250 class...
No doubt some of these privateer efforts that peter out mid season could probably stand a better chance to make it through the season. 250 class is a tough one financially.
IceMan446 wrote:
Except, they would be racing 450s.

No one is going to win on a 250 two stroke in the US series.

Either you didn't read the two previous posts or you quoted the wrong post.Huh Why would someone ride a 450 in the 250 class?
PEPE001
Profile picture for user PEPE001
Posts
692
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW DE
PEPE001 6/26/2015 1:50pm
6/26/2015 1:50pm
hellion wrote:
Sorry Newmann but your logic has no place in the US Nationals. Here, we must bend over to the factory's wishes to the detriment of the...
Sorry Newmann but your logic has no place in the US Nationals. Here, we must bend over to the factory's wishes to the detriment of the sport. This subject is always on the surface here at Vital, and I doubt DC pays any attention anymore. It is a shame though.

I was bummed when they made the new rules in Canada, but I couldn't be more please with the result. It flies in the face of all the 'Powers That Be', that a bike as a finished race bike that probably cost less than half of the four strokes is more than competitive. And that cost is just the build cost, imagine the bottom line at the end of the season factoring in all the engine rebuilds for each!
The bike cost less than a modified 4 stroke engine.
You could easy spend 10.000 $ for a 205f engine.

I like it, but the rules might be more strict next year to prevent a 2 stroke beating the best ever 4 stokes. Shocked

Matt Fisher
Profile picture for user Matt Fisher
Posts
3948
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Visalia, CA US
Fantasy
1117th
Matt Fisher 6/26/2015 3:25pm
6/26/2015 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2015 3:26pm
What's odd is one of the latest DeCoster interviews he mentions their 250F making 52HP! That's more than a stock 250SX makes, and it certainly does it over a much broader powerband, with more traction, having a higher rev limit, and less tiring over a 35 min moto.

Good on Benoit, btw!!


Love the idea of a "factory edition" 250SX. That would rock!
nytsmaC
Profile picture for user nytsmaC
Posts
5960
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off CA
nytsmaC 6/26/2015 3:39pm
6/26/2015 3:39pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
What's odd is one of the latest DeCoster interviews he mentions their 250F making 52HP! That's more than a stock 250SX makes, and it certainly does...
What's odd is one of the latest DeCoster interviews he mentions their 250F making 52HP! That's more than a stock 250SX makes, and it certainly does it over a much broader powerband, with more traction, having a higher rev limit, and less tiring over a 35 min moto.

Good on Benoit, btw!!


Love the idea of a "factory edition" 250SX. That would rock!
I wonder how much torque a factory 250F makes though? A stock 250SX makes low 30's, a 250F low 20's..

All things considered, I'd think that a fully modified 250F engine is fairly competitive with a stock 250 2-stroke..

Someone remind me again how 250F's are good for the sport?

Cons:
Heavy
Expensive
Unreliable
Slow
Loud
Disposable

Pros:
Easier to ride
???
notme
Profile picture for user notme
Posts
570
Joined
5/23/2010
Location
CA
notme 6/26/2015 3:47pm
6/26/2015 3:47pm
I would think that JSR gave Kaven some guidance on how to ride the smoker at the level he is right now. JSR was great on the 2 stroke.

Post a reply to: Benoit on two stroke