Arm Pump

4Arm Strong
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74
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Encinitas, CA US
Edited Date/Time 8/22/2015 3:35pm
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one answer for everyone. First understand, arm pump isn't a blood flow issue, it is a blood containment issue. Here is the answer. Some riders never get arm pump. Some do, but can train their way out of it and some can't seem to do anything about it. Some of the best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. The reason? The fascia surrounding the forearm flexor bundle muscles is tighter on some people than it is on others. Take Chad Reed, a rider I have worked with on several occasions. Chad has never got arm pump. This is a testament to his anatomy. His fascia isn't as constricting as those who get arm pump, but can train their way out of it. For the people who have such tight fascia that they can't train their way out of it, they need a fascial release. Surgery is an option, as the fascia is cut allowing for the blood to flow into the muscles without constriction. The only issue with this surgery is it only lasts one season, then the pump is worse than it was before the surgery. The answer I choose to promote is a device called the 4Arm Strong. The 4Arm Strong is a self therapy device that expands the fascia allowing for the forearm flexor bundle muscles to contain the blood generated by the energy it requires to twist the throttle and pull on the handle bars, with less or no constriction. Riders all over the world as already using it. Matt Goerke just won the MX1 Canadian National Championship with the help of a 4Arm Strong. Something the MX world should see www.4arm-strong.com
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loftyair
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riverside, CA US
8/17/2015 7:00pm
I don't agree with the 100% related to anatomy part. If you ride a lot, under race conditions, and correctly, you will not get arm pump. Not riding much, under actual race conditions, will cause arm pump if you think you're any good, or not!
MR. X
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North Tonawanda, NY US
8/17/2015 7:03pm
I'll take 50 of them
Premix
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AS US
8/17/2015 7:09pm
Bet I can do the same thing with a piece of PVC and a c clamp

The Shop

4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:09pm
@lofty air - so tell me why some of the fittest and best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. I am not at liberty to mention names, but I have worked with riders that have won national and world championships that get chronic arm pump. I think they ride a lot, under race conditions and correctly. As a tissue therapist, I can tell you it is 100% the anatomy.
TXDirt
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Location
Plano, TX US
8/17/2015 7:10pm
Maybe you are doing it wrong. Have your buddy help you...

8/17/2015 7:12pm
More I ride, less arm pump I get.....

Never used to get armpump as a kid. Then once I turned 15 it became a problem.
MR. X
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North Tonawanda, NY US
8/17/2015 7:14pm
More I ride, less arm pump I get.....

Never used to get armpump as a kid. Then once I turned 15 it became a problem.
15.... ?Hmmmm , you were probably over working your your forearms .Whistling
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:18pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:19pm
loftyair wrote:
I don't agree with the 100% related to anatomy part. If you ride a lot, under race conditions, and correctly, you will not get arm pump...
I don't agree with the 100% related to anatomy part. If you ride a lot, under race conditions, and correctly, you will not get arm pump. Not riding much, under actual race conditions, will cause arm pump if you think you're any good, or not!
So tell me why some of the fittest and best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. I am not at liberty to mention names, but I have worked with riders that have won national and world championships that get chronic arm pump. I think they ride a lot, under race conditions and correctly. As a tissue therapist, I can tell you it is 100% the anatomy.
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:20pm
More I ride, less arm pump I get.....

Never used to get armpump as a kid. Then once I turned 15 it became a problem.
MR. X wrote:
15.... ?Hmmmm , you were probably over working your your forearms .Whistling
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
TbonesPop
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Gilbert, AZ US
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405th
8/17/2015 7:40pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
Why is it that when I ride/race off road at race pace (either training or an actual race) I never get arm pump, but when on a track at race pace (or as fast as I'm capable of going) I consistently get arm pump? My simple explanation (just my opinion) is that in off road I'm very comfortable (even going as fast as my limits allow), confident, and don't over grip the bars. II'm just not scared and I'm very confident - I'm loose on the bike. On a track, I'm just not as comfortable and as a result, I naturally over grip the bike - I often have to remind myself to breath. So anatomically - am I one who gets arm pump or not? I'm confused.
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2015 7:49pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
TbonesPop wrote:
Why is it that when I ride/race off road at race pace (either training or an actual race) I never get arm pump, but when on...
Why is it that when I ride/race off road at race pace (either training or an actual race) I never get arm pump, but when on a track at race pace (or as fast as I'm capable of going) I consistently get arm pump? My simple explanation (just my opinion) is that in off road I'm very comfortable (even going as fast as my limits allow), confident, and don't over grip the bars. II'm just not scared and I'm very confident - I'm loose on the bike. On a track, I'm just not as comfortable and as a result, I naturally over grip the bike - I often have to remind myself to breath. So anatomically - am I one who gets arm pump or not? I'm confused.
I have raced both off road and motocross and motocross requires far more movement. When a muscle swells with blood it is because of the energy created by the muscles to make a particular movement. When you do bench press, you chest swells with blood. When you go on a mountain bike ride, or for a run, your quads fill with blood. When you twist the throttle, pull the handle bars, brake and accelerate, your forearm muscles fill with blood. The more energy required, the more blood will flow. In an off road race you will not be using as much energy and you will in a motocross race.
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 7:53pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2015 7:54pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
TbonesPop wrote:
Why is it that when I ride/race off road at race pace (either training or an actual race) I never get arm pump, but when on...
Why is it that when I ride/race off road at race pace (either training or an actual race) I never get arm pump, but when on a track at race pace (or as fast as I'm capable of going) I consistently get arm pump? My simple explanation (just my opinion) is that in off road I'm very comfortable (even going as fast as my limits allow), confident, and don't over grip the bars. II'm just not scared and I'm very confident - I'm loose on the bike. On a track, I'm just not as comfortable and as a result, I naturally over grip the bike - I often have to remind myself to breath. So anatomically - am I one who gets arm pump or not? I'm confused.
I have raced both off road and motocross and motocross requires far more movement. When a muscle swells with blood it is because of the energy...
I have raced both off road and motocross and motocross requires far more movement. When a muscle swells with blood it is because of the energy created by the muscles to make a particular movement. When you do bench press, you chest swells with blood. When you go on a mountain bike ride, or for a run, your quads fill with blood. When you twist the throttle, pull the handle bars, brake and accelerate, your forearm muscles fill with blood. The more energy required, the more blood will flow. In an off road race you will not be using as much energy and you will in a motocross race.
And to answer your question, your fascia is too tight to allow your forearm muscles to grow with blood with the right amount of energy required. You more than likely can train your way out of it, but you will need to train for MX, not for offroad.
TbonesPop
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8/17/2015 8:00pm
And to answer your question, your fascia is too tight to allow your forearm muscles to grow with blood with the right amount of energy required...
And to answer your question, your fascia is too tight to allow your forearm muscles to grow with blood with the right amount of energy required. You more than likely can train your way out of it, but you will need to train for MX, not for offroad.
Sounds reasonable. Thanks for the insight.
The Rock
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HAIKU, HI US
8/17/2015 8:06pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
Release the fascia?



4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 8:21pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
The Rock wrote:
Release the fascia? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/08/17/101861/s1200_keep_calm_and_release_the_kraken_5.jpg[/img]
Release the fascia?



You have never heard of myofascial release? I like to describe it as expanding the the fascia so it will allow the muscles to contain the excess blood without restriction.
8/17/2015 8:49pm
Dude is making a killing at $300 a pop for these!

I'm no "expert", I was nothing more than a lowly medic, but I do have a pretty good understanding of anatomy at this level... I think it comes down to a few factors already stated here, but there is also the individual variation with all of us, and I do believe the biggest factor is how much elasticity your fascia give you. That is once you take training out as a factor.
Someone needs to do a study, take measurements of a riders forearms (circumference about every 2" from elbow to wrist) both before and directly after a moto, and take down how bad they feel their arm pump is, I bet you that the guys with less arm pump will have greater swelling ratio due to the larger space not restricting flow. I was at a track on the weekend that puts their ride band on your wrist before you leave the register, I remember telling the girl to make sure it's loose because my arms really swell up. It was loose before I practiced and as I was leaving the track it was pretty snug.
I rarely get arm pump, doesn't matter if it's a hard pack track or deep sand, or if I'm at "race pace" or not.
Big fore arms are not beneficial in this sport, and the bigger they are the tighter they will get.
I believe the best program for MX is limited heavy weights (but not ignoring them), and lots of higher intensity cardio, which sounds like crap but it is possible to make it fun. I'll do heavy weights one day a week, two days a week it's good cardio, typically mountain biking and insanity for me, we practice on saturdays, race sundays so I get two days a week of "rest", but Monday is bike maintenance and Friday I drive to the track. At my Vet30 pace I don't drop off, and typically still pushing right to the checkers wishing the race was still a few laps longer.
Cardio is what preps your system for removing all that CO2 and lactic acid out.

I used to get pump when I was still really learning how to ride (I started to take it more serious at 24 or so) but as my style has changed, I had it less and less and then I figured out what type of training works for me, however I have a natural ability for endurance type activities even though I'm an "endomorph".
brimx153
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Location
IE
8/17/2015 9:04pm
ive had 3 myofascial release s .both my calf muscles are done and my right forearm .armpump got so bad it would take hours for it to go down.the opp helped it that way . i still cant jog slowly .but if i sprint i can get away with it . the doctor said it was because the blood rushed in and out faster and didnt have time to swell up my calfs. on the bike i still suffer with arm pump .i ride a bike well, i know for a fact i hold on alot less than loads of riders who never get it .really sucks .the only way i find helps is lots of cardio ,riding and good diet .deff helps .normally what happens me is i ll alway pump up in practice then once my arm returns to normal ,i am good for the rest of the day
4Arm Strong
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8/17/2015 9:05pm
Dude is making a killing at $300 a pop for these! I'm no "expert", I was nothing more than a lowly medic, but I do have...
Dude is making a killing at $300 a pop for these!

I'm no "expert", I was nothing more than a lowly medic, but I do have a pretty good understanding of anatomy at this level... I think it comes down to a few factors already stated here, but there is also the individual variation with all of us, and I do believe the biggest factor is how much elasticity your fascia give you. That is once you take training out as a factor.
Someone needs to do a study, take measurements of a riders forearms (circumference about every 2" from elbow to wrist) both before and directly after a moto, and take down how bad they feel their arm pump is, I bet you that the guys with less arm pump will have greater swelling ratio due to the larger space not restricting flow. I was at a track on the weekend that puts their ride band on your wrist before you leave the register, I remember telling the girl to make sure it's loose because my arms really swell up. It was loose before I practiced and as I was leaving the track it was pretty snug.
I rarely get arm pump, doesn't matter if it's a hard pack track or deep sand, or if I'm at "race pace" or not.
Big fore arms are not beneficial in this sport, and the bigger they are the tighter they will get.
I believe the best program for MX is limited heavy weights (but not ignoring them), and lots of higher intensity cardio, which sounds like crap but it is possible to make it fun. I'll do heavy weights one day a week, two days a week it's good cardio, typically mountain biking and insanity for me, we practice on saturdays, race sundays so I get two days a week of "rest", but Monday is bike maintenance and Friday I drive to the track. At my Vet30 pace I don't drop off, and typically still pushing right to the checkers wishing the race was still a few laps longer.
Cardio is what preps your system for removing all that CO2 and lactic acid out.

I used to get pump when I was still really learning how to ride (I started to take it more serious at 24 or so) but as my style has changed, I had it less and less and then I figured out what type of training works for me, however I have a natural ability for endurance type activities even though I'm an "endomorph".
You are correct, it is all about the flexibility of the fascia. More often than not, fascia is stiff and needs quite a bit of encouraging to expand. The price is steep at $299, however 4Arm Strong is very liberal with giving away $100 discount codes. Also riders that promote 4Arm Strong, like Ricky Johnson, Marty Smith, Matt Goerke and Axell Hodges are giving out $100 discount codes. By the way, Marty Smith has gigantic forearms and he never gets arm pump. He loves the 4Arm Strong though, because it strengthens the grip and Marty says he feels much more control of the bike because of it.
lostboy819
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8/17/2015 9:05pm
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one...
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one answer for everyone. First understand, arm pump isn't a blood flow issue, it is a blood containment issue. Here is the answer. Some riders never get arm pump. Some do, but can train their way out of it and some can't seem to do anything about it. Some of the best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. The reason? The fascia surrounding the forearm flexor bundle muscles is tighter on some people than it is on others. Take Chad Reed, a rider I have worked with on several occasions. Chad has never got arm pump. This is a testament to his anatomy. His fascia isn't as constricting as those who get arm pump, but can train their way out of it. For the people who have such tight fascia that they can't train their way out of it, they need a fascial release. Surgery is an option, as the fascia is cut allowing for the blood to flow into the muscles without constriction. The only issue with this surgery is it only lasts one season, then the pump is worse than it was before the surgery. The answer I choose to promote is a device called the 4Arm Strong. The 4Arm Strong is a self therapy device that expands the fascia allowing for the forearm flexor bundle muscles to contain the blood generated by the energy it requires to twist the throttle and pull on the handle bars, with less or no constriction. Riders all over the world as already using it. Matt Goerke just won the MX1 Canadian National Championship with the help of a 4Arm Strong. Something the MX world should see www.4arm-strong.com




BillyMadison
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Park City, UT US
8/17/2015 9:11pm
If you can get one of the many pro riders who "endorse" this to come into this thread and back up your claims, I will buy one of these 4arm deals for everyone in this thread. I pump up a bit, be nice to do away with it...I suppose.
cwtoyota
Posts
1930
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Location
Tacoma, WA US
8/17/2015 9:32pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard on the subject of arm pump. I hear it from time to time in the motocross community, especially from people who complain about arm pump.

There is nothing wrong with training your forearms or any other part of your body. The better muscle tone, flexibility and endurance you have the better your balance, consistency and speed will be on the bike and the more laps you can run at your best pace.

My observation from racing as an amateur is that most of us amateurs are barely in physical shape to complete the typical 5 lap motos at the local track. Rarely do I see guys who are truly fit have recurring arm-pump issues.

This isn't rocket science, and it certainly is not plumbing.
cwtoyota
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1930
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Tacoma, WA US
8/17/2015 9:43pm
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one...
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one answer for everyone. First understand, arm pump isn't a blood flow issue, it is a blood containment issue. Here is the answer. Some riders never get arm pump. Some do, but can train their way out of it and some can't seem to do anything about it. Some of the best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. The reason? The fascia surrounding the forearm flexor bundle muscles is tighter on some people than it is on others. Take Chad Reed, a rider I have worked with on several occasions. Chad has never got arm pump. This is a testament to his anatomy. His fascia isn't as constricting as those who get arm pump, but can train their way out of it. For the people who have such tight fascia that they can't train their way out of it, they need a fascial release. Surgery is an option, as the fascia is cut allowing for the blood to flow into the muscles without constriction. The only issue with this surgery is it only lasts one season, then the pump is worse than it was before the surgery. The answer I choose to promote is a device called the 4Arm Strong. The 4Arm Strong is a self therapy device that expands the fascia allowing for the forearm flexor bundle muscles to contain the blood generated by the energy it requires to twist the throttle and pull on the handle bars, with less or no constriction. Riders all over the world as already using it. Matt Goerke just won the MX1 Canadian National Championship with the help of a 4Arm Strong. Something the MX world should see www.4arm-strong.com
Can you point me to any peer-reviewed and independently replicated studies that have been published in a reputable medical research journal that confirm your claims about expanding the fascia, etc?

Have you done a study of proper technique on an off-road motorcycle?
It has been my personal observation that you want to pull on the handlebars as little as possible.
In fact, riding motocross should be done with the larger muscles in the legs and transitioning your weight with the core area of the body. Weight transfers and anticipating the terrain and throttle/brake input serve a skilled rider to lessen the load on his arms.

"Riding tight" is a term you hear all the time... People use it in different ways, but often guys mean they were gripping the bars and trying to muscle the bike around with their arms.

That's why you often hear it like this: "I was riding tight and I pumped up..."

4Arm Strong
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Location
Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 9:47pm
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't...
There is some truth to Mr.X's comment about overworking. Training the forearms is a big mistake. You get enough work from riding. But it really isn't that difficult. Some never get it, some can train their way out of it, and some will suffer unless they release the fascia.
cwtoyota wrote:
That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard on the subject of arm pump. I hear it from time to time in the motocross...
That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard on the subject of arm pump. I hear it from time to time in the motocross community, especially from people who complain about arm pump.

There is nothing wrong with training your forearms or any other part of your body. The better muscle tone, flexibility and endurance you have the better your balance, consistency and speed will be on the bike and the more laps you can run at your best pace.

My observation from racing as an amateur is that most of us amateurs are barely in physical shape to complete the typical 5 lap motos at the local track. Rarely do I see guys who are truly fit have recurring arm-pump issues.

This isn't rocket science, and it certainly is not plumbing.
You have no idea what you are talking about, and you call me ignorant? There is plenty wrong with training your forearms. Who are you? Do you understand, "Overtraining"? Do you understand that when you grow your muscles from training you cause the fascia to get even tighter? Please, reply with your credentials so we know when you call a MX therapist that has worked with some of the best riders in the world he is ignorant.
4Arm Strong
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Location
Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 9:50pm
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one...
I have read many good comments on arm pump and potential answers, however considering arm pump is 100% related to the anatomy, there is no one answer for everyone. First understand, arm pump isn't a blood flow issue, it is a blood containment issue. Here is the answer. Some riders never get arm pump. Some do, but can train their way out of it and some can't seem to do anything about it. Some of the best riders in the world get chronic arm pump. The reason? The fascia surrounding the forearm flexor bundle muscles is tighter on some people than it is on others. Take Chad Reed, a rider I have worked with on several occasions. Chad has never got arm pump. This is a testament to his anatomy. His fascia isn't as constricting as those who get arm pump, but can train their way out of it. For the people who have such tight fascia that they can't train their way out of it, they need a fascial release. Surgery is an option, as the fascia is cut allowing for the blood to flow into the muscles without constriction. The only issue with this surgery is it only lasts one season, then the pump is worse than it was before the surgery. The answer I choose to promote is a device called the 4Arm Strong. The 4Arm Strong is a self therapy device that expands the fascia allowing for the forearm flexor bundle muscles to contain the blood generated by the energy it requires to twist the throttle and pull on the handle bars, with less or no constriction. Riders all over the world as already using it. Matt Goerke just won the MX1 Canadian National Championship with the help of a 4Arm Strong. Something the MX world should see www.4arm-strong.com
cwtoyota wrote:
Can you point me to any peer-reviewed and independently replicated studies that have been published in a reputable medical research journal that confirm your claims about...
Can you point me to any peer-reviewed and independently replicated studies that have been published in a reputable medical research journal that confirm your claims about expanding the fascia, etc?

Have you done a study of proper technique on an off-road motorcycle?
It has been my personal observation that you want to pull on the handlebars as little as possible.
In fact, riding motocross should be done with the larger muscles in the legs and transitioning your weight with the core area of the body. Weight transfers and anticipating the terrain and throttle/brake input serve a skilled rider to lessen the load on his arms.

"Riding tight" is a term you hear all the time... People use it in different ways, but often guys mean they were gripping the bars and trying to muscle the bike around with their arms.

That's why you often hear it like this: "I was riding tight and I pumped up..."

What do you think arm pump surgery does? It expands the fascia with a knife. I expand it with my thumbs and the 4Arm Strong.
4Arm Strong
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Encinitas, CA US
8/17/2015 9:52pm
If you can get one of the many pro riders who "endorse" this to come into this thread and back up your claims, I will buy...
If you can get one of the many pro riders who "endorse" this to come into this thread and back up your claims, I will buy one of these 4arm deals for everyone in this thread. I pump up a bit, be nice to do away with it...I suppose.
Instagram them @Mattgoerke, @therickyjohnson @axellhodges - Marty wouldn't get on a forum like this if I paid him.
cwtoyota
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Tacoma, WA US
8/17/2015 10:03pm
What do you think arm pump surgery does? It expands the fascia with a knife. I expand it with my thumbs and the 4Arm Strong.
I haven't said anything about arm pump surgery, but now that you bring it up, maybe you know of some clinical studies that have been peer reviewed, independently replicated and published on that as well?

You're right up there with homeopathy, faith-healers, accu-puncture, magnetic jewelry and all of the other alternative "medicine" BS in my opinion until you produce some good independent evidence that supports your claims.

By the way, anecdotes and testamonials are not good evidence for medical claims.



Pills, strange drinks and screw-jack contraptions won't cure arm-pump.
Fitness, hydration and good technique will.



Crush
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20960
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Location
Sydney AU
8/17/2015 10:04pm
Outside of any potential spam, i'd also suggest Chad doesn't get arm pump because of how far forward he keeps his body and knees and how hard he grips the bike with his legs. A few of his mechanics have said he trashes the sides of his bike too...

Mike Brown has had arm pump issues forever and rides really far back, always pulling on his arms. And for any tall dudes, if you're like me, as soon as my knees got way above the seat, that fucked my arm pump situation up also.

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