Are the GPs...

jndmx
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7/11/2011 10:41am
Hanaa80
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7/11/2011 10:51am
At the moment we have threads for J-Law, JS7, Pourcel, 2 strokes vs. 4 strokes and AMA vs.GP on the first page. Things don't change much here..
kongols
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7/11/2011 10:52am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2011 10:52am
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
jamma10
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7/11/2011 10:59am
jamma10 wrote:
:lol: How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote: 'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in...
Grinning How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote:

'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in fact, I think the majority are a bunch of 4th-10th place caliber AMA riders'

This is a perfect example of a typical thread concerning the GPs/AMA. Most start of with fairly good intentions (I know you did anyway DIRTY bagger) but end up in a mess.

1. American makes a claim (in this case that the GP's aren't stacked).
2. Euro counters that claim (the GP's are stacked, here are the reasons why).
3. American disputes it.
4. Euro gives examples to suggest otherwise.
5. Other American chimes in with an insult.
6. Other Euro says something equally inflammatory.
7. Thread deteriorates.
8. Vital Apocalypse.
9. Euro's are then blamed for instigating the argument.
broman64 wrote:
right?...sothatshowyouseeit...
BMan-
Not necessarily EXACTLY in that sequence. But similar...

One of your own contributions

The Shop

jndmx
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7/11/2011 11:27am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2011 11:28am
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
Either that or the top US National guys are way faster.

Evil
kongols
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7/11/2011 11:43am
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
jndmx wrote:
Either that or the top US National guys are way faster.

Evil
I saw this reply coming the second I hit submit button...LaughingLaughingCool
7/11/2011 11:53am
jamma10 wrote:
:lol: How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote: 'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in...
Grinning How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote:

'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in fact, I think the majority are a bunch of 4th-10th place caliber AMA riders'

This is a perfect example of a typical thread concerning the GPs/AMA. Most start of with fairly good intentions (I know you did anyway DIRTY bagger) but end up in a mess.

1. American makes a claim (in this case that the GP's aren't stacked).
2. Euro counters that claim (the GP's are stacked, here are the reasons why).
3. American disputes it.
4. Euro gives examples to suggest otherwise.
5. Other American chimes in with an insult.
6. Other Euro says something equally inflammatory.
7. Thread deteriorates.
8. Vital Apocalypse.
9. Euro's are then blamed for instigating the argument.
broman64 wrote:
right?...sothatshowyouseeit...
BMan-
jamma10 wrote:
Not necessarily EXACTLY in that sequence. But similar...

One of your own contributions
sounds like the standard vital thread to me!
7/11/2011 11:54am
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
jndmx wrote:
Either that or the top US National guys are way faster.

Evil
kongols wrote:
I saw this reply coming the second I hit submit button...LaughingLaughingCool
LaughingLaughingTongueWoohooSick
7/11/2011 12:00pm
jamma10 wrote:
:lol: How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote: 'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in...
Grinning How does Mccread have it the wrong way around when in your introductory post you wrote:

'Either way imo the GPs aren't THAT stacked, in fact, I think the majority are a bunch of 4th-10th place caliber AMA riders'

This is a perfect example of a typical thread concerning the GPs/AMA. Most start of with fairly good intentions (I know you did anyway DIRTY bagger) but end up in a mess.

1. American makes a claim (in this case that the GP's aren't stacked).
2. Euro counters that claim (the GP's are stacked, here are the reasons why).
3. American disputes it.
4. Euro gives examples to suggest otherwise.
5. Other American chimes in with an insult.
6. Other Euro says something equally inflammatory.
7. Thread deteriorates.
8. Vital Apocalypse.
9. Euro's are then blamed for instigating the argument.
broman64 wrote:
right?...sothatshowyouseeit...
BMan-
jamma10 wrote:
Not necessarily EXACTLY in that sequence. But similar...

One of your own contributions
Jamma number 1 of VitalMX Wink
jndmx
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7/11/2011 12:15pm
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
jndmx wrote:
Either that or the top US National guys are way faster.

Evil
kongols wrote:
I saw this reply coming the second I hit submit button...LaughingLaughingCool
I couldn't resist......lmao.

All in good fun man.
tns
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7/11/2011 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2011 1:56pm
Its weird but if you look at the top 3 in all classes
gps 1st tc
2nd cd
3rd sf
250's
1st kr
2nd jh
3rd ts
nationals 1st cr
2nd rv
3rd rd
250's 1st dw
2nd bb
3rd tr
so no americans in the top 3 in the gp's and the top 2 slots in the ama are filled by european riders so i think this proves the gp riders can do well in the ama,and that the americans laugh at the gp's and would rather stay home earn more which is of course why the europeans go there
broman64
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7/11/2011 3:47pm
broman64 wrote:
right?...sothatshowyouseeit...
BMan-
jamma10 wrote:
Not necessarily EXACTLY in that sequence. But similar...

One of your own contributions
Jamma number 1 of VitalMX Wink
I-really-don't-follow...I-feel-the-same-way-as-I-did-when-I-wrote-the-contribution-that-someone-posted...I-feel-one-way-and-Jamma-feels-the-other...I-see-it-different...
what-do-you-not-understand?...
BMan-
broman64
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7/11/2011 3:58pm
tns wrote:
Its weird but if you look at the top 3 in all classes gps 1st tc 2nd cd 3rd sf 250's 1st kr 2nd jh 3rd...
Its weird but if you look at the top 3 in all classes
gps 1st tc
2nd cd
3rd sf
250's
1st kr
2nd jh
3rd ts
nationals 1st cr
2nd rv
3rd rd
250's 1st dw
2nd bb
3rd tr
so no americans in the top 3 in the gp's and the top 2 slots in the ama are filled by european riders so i think this proves the gp riders can do well in the ama,and that the americans laugh at the gp's and would rather stay home earn more which is of course why the europeans go there
That-is-easy-to-understand...now-pay-close-attention...There-are-no-US-Champs-over-there...And-the-two-Euro-racers-in-America-were-Champions...One-of-them-won-his-titles-here...The-other-has-said-what-he-thinks...They-both-have-stated-their-feelings-about-which-has-tougher-comp...They-each-have-said-that-the-US-Nats-were-all-that...I-question-why-are-they-here?...b-e-c-a-u-s-e?...Your-stats-just-prove-the-point-even-more...

Baffled-by-your-brilliance,
BMan-
kongols
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7/19/2011 12:05pm
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place in a moto`s accordingly.WhistlingEvilCool
moto282
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7/19/2011 12:13pm
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
kongols wrote:
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place...
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place in a moto`s accordingly.WhistlingEvilCool
That's because Reed and Dungey are faster than Cairoli... lap more people... duh Tongue

(just joking around)
NV825
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7/19/2011 12:29pm
Last time I checked every rider lining up for either gate was a living, breathing, human being regardless of language and looks. Unless someone is riding a cheater bike then if we combined the series it would be a toss up each weekend who would take home the W. Let's just respect each series as equal rather than one better than another, and let's be thankful that we do have a series on either side of the planet for fans around the world to watch rather than having the only opportunity to see a race is on the TV, internet, or not be seen at all because of location.
moto282
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7/19/2011 12:34pm
NV825 wrote:
Last time I checked every rider lining up for either gate was a living, breathing, human being regardless of language and looks. Unless someone is riding...
Last time I checked every rider lining up for either gate was a living, breathing, human being regardless of language and looks. Unless someone is riding a cheater bike then if we combined the series it would be a toss up each weekend who would take home the W. Let's just respect each series as equal rather than one better than another, and let's be thankful that we do have a series on either side of the planet for fans around the world to watch rather than having the only opportunity to see a race is on the TV, internet, or not be seen at all because of location.
Well said. Agree.
Holigan
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7/19/2011 12:39pm
Regal finished 2nd in a couple of Motos at the Nationals in 2010, and 9th overal for the series. He went to the MXoN and finished 2nd in his first moto and nearly ripped his foot from his ankle in the second moto. The speed looks to be fairly similar in both series.

MX2 + Open Motocross des Nations Results:

1. Ben Townley, New Zealand (Honda)
2. Kyle Regal, Puerto Rico (Honda)
3. Ken Roczen, Germany (Suzuki)
4. Clement Desalle, Belgium (Suzuki)
5. Max Nagal,Germany (KTM)
6. Dean Wilson, Great Britain (Kawasaki)
7. Trey Canard, USA (Honda)
8. Brad Anderson, Great Britain (Honda)
9. Manuel Monni, Italy (Yamaha)
10. Jeremy van Horebeek, Belgium (Kawasaki)
11. Xavier Boog, France (Kawasaki)
12. Jorge Antonio Balbi Junior, Brazil (Kawasaki)
13. Andrew Short, USA (Honda)
14. Zach Osborne, Puerto Rico (Yamaha)
15. Yoshitaka Atsuta, Japan (Suzuki)
Crossup
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7/19/2011 9:27pm
As everyone's already said (and Albertson also said it) both series are so damn different, it's very hard to compare. No doubt Dungey, Villopoto and Reed...
As everyone's already said (and Albertson also said it) both series are so damn different, it's very hard to compare. No doubt Dungey, Villopoto and Reed are exceptional riders BUT bar a crash or mechanical you can virtually always count on each of those guys filling out the top 3 positions.

The GP's aren't like that so much. Of course the usual suspects rise to the top but there's far more variation in positions because there's far more riders going the same or similar speeds. For instance Ken De Dycker may be utterly out of it for several GP's in a row, barely making the top 5, totally off the radar...... only to suddenly be chasing down Frossard or Desalle for a win one week later. It's VERY unpredictable.

With the exception of Cairoli, Desalle and Frossard, one could argu that the majority of GP riders are (on average) a bunch of 4th to 10th place calibre riders - but isn't that already true of their AMA counterparts, given that nobody can beat RV, RD and CR?
TDeath21 wrote:
I think if all the riders from each series were to do a series against each other, the top 6 would basically be set every weekend...
I think if all the riders from each series were to do a series against each other, the top 6 would basically be set every weekend with Dungey, Reed, Villopoto, Desalle, Cairoli, and Frossard swapping those positions every moto. 7-20 would be mostly AMA riders and so would 21-40. At the top of each series, the riders are pretty equal. The AMA has a much deeper field though, and that would show in positions 7-40.
Its amazing that no one mentions Evgeny Bobryshev who won the GP in Germany and kicks ass. First Russian hot-shoe since 1980.
Crossup
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7/19/2011 9:41pm
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
kongols wrote:
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place...
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place in a moto`s accordingly.WhistlingEvilCool
GP tracks are shorter.
7/19/2011 9:46pm
They also run five minutes longer over seas. Usually without a full gate. It still proves nothing either way.
TJRace
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7/19/2011 11:17pm
mccread wrote:
Why don't the US guys just race the world championship so they can see how hard it is/ and represent they country at the same time...
Why don't the US guys just race the world championship so they can see how hard it is/ and represent they country at the same time?

The two series aren't rivals they are totally different, you can't compare or say US riders are better or vice versa etc. The only thing the same is the level, both are top tier series, Everything else is different. One is a 12 day series in one country (favouring the riders of that country) the other is a 30 day series in different countries and vastly different tracks from week to week. They require different things to win each series imo.

Why Americans just can't watch both and accept they are both great but different is beyond me, why do they always have to say they are better than the rest of the world? Just enjoy both like everyone else does. There are equally great riders in both series.

Until they all race the World Championship there will never be a fair comparison. A one race MXDN is a terrible comparison and is nothing like racing a 15/16 round World Motocross series.
Why would the US guys race the 'world(?) championship' when it really isn't a step up (and I'm not even saying it's a step down)? I've always believed (known) mccread was just a very biased fisherman but I’ll bite: mccread constantly implies the AMA series is just like any other national series (England, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Canada, etc.) and should be considered comparable. He also completely discounts the variety of geography and culture found across the vastness that is the USA while exaggerating the difficulty in traveling between neighboring countries in Europe. How hard is that? I've travelled a bit in Europe and found it much like going between states here (and that's from a yank with no previous exposure to Europe - it was easy!). It really is not a big deal. Seriously, get over it. And it isn't like all of the tracks are alike here and there's no variety. I'd say a sand specialist from the GPs would have a huge advantage at Southwick over a kid from California that hasn't seen the sand (even though, GASP!, the race is in his country). Crap, the flight times aren't even that much different so there goes the big 'local' advantage. Fast guys are fast guys wherever they race and exactly how long do you think it takes to learn a track when you're at their level? Not long!
kongols
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7/19/2011 11:26pm
kongols wrote:
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly...
In the last National each moto winner lapped the competition up to 12-th place, but in last GP winner lapped competition to 18-th and 21-st accordingly, so obviously GP`s are way more stacked. Evil
kongols wrote:
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place...
Hey, this last weekend history repeated it self and GP winner lapped up to 21 and 18 place, but Nationals winner to 13 and 11-th place in a moto`s accordingly.WhistlingEvilCool
Crossup wrote:
GP tracks are shorter.
If they are shorter then GP winner should be able to lap more riders , right? The longer the track , the smaller possibility that you`ll be able to lap anybody.
jamma10
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7/20/2011 2:12am Edited Date/Time 7/20/2011 5:24am
As everyone's already said (and Albertson also said it) both series are so damn different, it's very hard to compare. No doubt Dungey, Villopoto and Reed...
As everyone's already said (and Albertson also said it) both series are so damn different, it's very hard to compare. No doubt Dungey, Villopoto and Reed are exceptional riders BUT bar a crash or mechanical you can virtually always count on each of those guys filling out the top 3 positions.

The GP's aren't like that so much. Of course the usual suspects rise to the top but there's far more variation in positions because there's far more riders going the same or similar speeds. For instance Ken De Dycker may be utterly out of it for several GP's in a row, barely making the top 5, totally off the radar...... only to suddenly be chasing down Frossard or Desalle for a win one week later. It's VERY unpredictable.

With the exception of Cairoli, Desalle and Frossard, one could argu that the majority of GP riders are (on average) a bunch of 4th to 10th place calibre riders - but isn't that already true of their AMA counterparts, given that nobody can beat RV, RD and CR?
TDeath21 wrote:
I think if all the riders from each series were to do a series against each other, the top 6 would basically be set every weekend...
I think if all the riders from each series were to do a series against each other, the top 6 would basically be set every weekend with Dungey, Reed, Villopoto, Desalle, Cairoli, and Frossard swapping those positions every moto. 7-20 would be mostly AMA riders and so would 21-40. At the top of each series, the riders are pretty equal. The AMA has a much deeper field though, and that would show in positions 7-40.
Crossup wrote:
Its amazing that no one mentions Evgeny Bobryshev who won the GP in Germany and kicks ass. First Russian hot-shoe since 1980.
'The AMA has a much deeper field though, and that would show in positions 7-40'

Here's an indication of that depth...

Looking at the 2nd moto lap times of each respectve 450 class at weekend Dungey was lapping on average 15 seconds faster than for example Dowd who finished 22nd. While Erikkson, the 22nd finisher in Latvia was averaging laptimes only 7 seconds slower than race winner Cairoli.

Kegums, Latvia (avg lap times)

1st...........Cairoli...............1:57.211
------------------------------------------------------
10th.........Nagl.................1:57.445
------------------------------------------------------
20th.........Steinbergs.......2:03.197 (6 sec diff)
21st.........Freibergs..........2:04.254 (7 sec diff)
22nd........Eriksson..........2:04.526 (7 sec diff)
23rd.........Kaurit...............2:09.530 (10 sec diff)
24th.........Apfelbaums......2:16.352 (19 sec diff) Last Place

Six riders retired, three of whom; Strijbos, Aranda & Boog regularly finish inside the top 15.


MIllville (avg lap times)

1st.........Dungey.............2.08.912
------------------------------------------------------
10th.........Windham........2:16.2473 (7 sec diff)
------------------------------------------------------
20th.........Mikhaylov........2.22.196 (13 sec diff)
21st.........Porter...............2.23.473 (15 sec diff)
22nd........Dowd..............2.23.850 (15 sec diff)
23rd.........Harrison..........2:23.917 (15 sec diff)
24th.........Deitrich............2:24.679 (16 sec diff)

Christian Craig did not start.

Even if (for the sake of argument) Cairoli would be lap a second slower than Dungey at Millville... you can make your own conclusions.
7/20/2011 2:20am
mccread wrote:
Why don't the US guys just race the world championship so they can see how hard it is/ and represent they country at the same time...
Why don't the US guys just race the world championship so they can see how hard it is/ and represent they country at the same time?

The two series aren't rivals they are totally different, you can't compare or say US riders are better or vice versa etc. The only thing the same is the level, both are top tier series, Everything else is different. One is a 12 day series in one country (favouring the riders of that country) the other is a 30 day series in different countries and vastly different tracks from week to week. They require different things to win each series imo.

Why Americans just can't watch both and accept they are both great but different is beyond me, why do they always have to say they are better than the rest of the world? Just enjoy both like everyone else does. There are equally great riders in both series.

Until they all race the World Championship there will never be a fair comparison. A one race MXDN is a terrible comparison and is nothing like racing a 15/16 round World Motocross series.
TJRace wrote:
Why would the US guys race the 'world(?) championship' when it really isn't a step up (and I'm not even saying it's a step down)? I've...
Why would the US guys race the 'world(?) championship' when it really isn't a step up (and I'm not even saying it's a step down)? I've always believed (known) mccread was just a very biased fisherman but I’ll bite: mccread constantly implies the AMA series is just like any other national series (England, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Canada, etc.) and should be considered comparable. He also completely discounts the variety of geography and culture found across the vastness that is the USA while exaggerating the difficulty in traveling between neighboring countries in Europe. How hard is that? I've travelled a bit in Europe and found it much like going between states here (and that's from a yank with no previous exposure to Europe - it was easy!). It really is not a big deal. Seriously, get over it. And it isn't like all of the tracks are alike here and there's no variety. I'd say a sand specialist from the GPs would have a huge advantage at Southwick over a kid from California that hasn't seen the sand (even though, GASP!, the race is in his country). Crap, the flight times aren't even that much different so there goes the big 'local' advantage. Fast guys are fast guys wherever they race and exactly how long do you think it takes to learn a track when you're at their level? Not long!
I've never felt he implies the series is like the British orBelgian etc,of course its not,don't be ridiculous,he always says AMA and GP are equal,congratulations if you negotiated Europe a bit with ease,I've been plenty of times and the only thing made easier is the Euro,sure you can drive across a lot with no borders now,pay for fuel with thaw Euro a lot of the time etc but to spend a long weekend in diferrent places is the harder part,food and language,are tricky,but culture is probably as hard to adjust to,local fans make a lot of riders feel disadvantaged,(I've been places with a team and little obsticales have appears over the weekend,times changed,gates closed,passes gone missing etc!) If you're in England there's the water crossing too,same as Sweden/Denmark(to drive took about 26 hrs non stop last time) and then there are the overseas rounds,14 hours + to USA etc,yes the US us huge,I've driven some of it but its much easier Imo,a hard slog indeed,although its cheaper

I'm with you on the tracks,they are more varied in Europe but good riders have 2 days to ride them not 1,trouble is you do have more track specialists,the last rider to try both was Jimmy Albertson who I have huge respect for and the guy has loads of fans in Europe,heck we want to see him backSmile He spoke of how surprisingly difficult it was,maybe he'll return,at least it wouldn't cost him to race and he wouldn't miss rounds I guess,which is poss poor for a top 10 guy,after all its these guys we need,the attendance would be poor,how many people would want to pay to watch 8-10 guys race every week? That's why the Moto GP is undergoing changes as the grid numbers have decreased,as has the product and the interest,the better product is the Moto 2 class,the cream always rises to the top and takes more prize money too

All in all both classes are pretty equal,although the AMA seems to only have 3 or now 4 guys that stand a chance of winning,with races very strung out,if Dungey is mid pack on the 1st lap,he will always end up in the top 3 or 4,that's not so much the same in the GPs,there can be around 10 guys with very similar laptimes and more guys capable of winning
7/20/2011 4:41am
i think the people commenting that gps havent got the depth in 7th - 20th arent actually watching the gps this season!
We watch the gp's and the ama nationals (always have done) and i can honestly say i havent seen it as close as this in the 20 years or so ive been watching motocross! MX1 especially- there are 15 gp winners in that class! Anyone in the top 10 can run top 3-5 (with laptimes very close)- just this season alone we've seen Nagl, Cairoli, Frossard, Bobryshev, Desalle, philleparts all win races! And goncalves, boog, leok, ramon, barragan all finish on the podium! (not to mention riders like de dyker, strijbos, guaneri and simpson all being in the top 4 or 5 at times. in the ama 450 class you know who the top 3 will be before they even get over the gate! The top 3 are MILES ahead of the rest. In gps this year its much closer- anybody in the top 10-15 can get on the podium, thats whats made it such a great series to follow this year!

For those of you that don't watch gp's - i would highly recommend it, the racings been great this year.
7/20/2011 5:04am
Have not read all the other comments, but the GP series has been awesome this year. There has been some great racing in both classes all the way to the checkered flag.
7/20/2011 5:57am
Have not read all the other comments, but the GP series has been awesome this year. There has been some great racing in both classes all...
Have not read all the other comments, but the GP series has been awesome this year. There has been some great racing in both classes all the way to the checkered flag.
i agree there- i think the mx-lifetv package online is great aswell, the coverage has been fantastic this season! Other than la baneza (which oddly enough produced some great racing) the tracks have been really good too!

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