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7/7/2015 10:10am
7/7/2015 10:10am
Edited Date/Time
7/8/2015 3:28pm
Beirer: "For me - to be healthy and sable - the whole sport should be on two-stroke bikes from zero to MX2 and one premium class for all of us in America and the World Championship with a four-stroke bike at whatever capacity; whether it is with 200cc or 500cc with power limitations" Read More
The Shop
Something does need to be done though, 125 2 stroke class and 250f /350f premier class in my eyes
I am a 2-stroke guy 'til I die, but the fact of the matter is, a large part of the average consumers want what the pro's race.
As dumb as that sounds to me, that's just how it is. Joe Schmoe wants a 2016 KTM SX-F 450 because that's what Dungey races. if you force him to ride a 250 2-stroke, he will stop going to his local races and just practice on his big 450 instead, or worse, he won't buy a new bike because he can't race it.
Something I do agree on wholeheartedly in that article, is the point Shaun Simpson is making: Sort out the tracks first, both in the US and in Europe. Take out the rediculous 150ft hucks in the US and stop flooding hardpack tracks 5 minutes before a moto in Europe. BOOM, injuries -50%.
Emotionally speaking there has to be a place for 300cc two strokes somewhere in professional racing.
He wanted the Premier class to become 250fs a couple of years ago, when he tried that Superclass bullshit. And, prior to that, he tried the reduce the 450s to 350s crap. And, as good a bloke Pit Bull is, I take his thoughts on capacity restrictions with a cynical eye, due to his corporate connections.
Do some study - injuries are not at record levels. We've had high injury levels since motorcycling started, and it will always be the case. I'm not saying ignore it, but just be realistic - as my favourite Ortho said countless times to me, "the human body is made to take walking speed impacts at best, if you fall down, through to crashing at speed, and Not get hurt, count yourself lucky - and dress yourself for the crash, as best you can". A wise man, and a great bloke, that thinks other doctors that habitually slag bikes are wankers.
450s are just at the level of 500s from decades ago. We've not had huge power increases. 250fs - 'factory' / big dollar level ones - are just at the level that the same level 250 2ts were at a decade or so ago. With the real advancement being chassis / running gear.
Better track design and prep, well, maintenance really, ( mind you, I don't want tracks to be manicured, chocolate cake like surfaces, use the geology of the area, for fucks sake), get rid of Daryl Aitkens as the GP Track Lord - well that's perhaps a bit harsh, as he's dancing to that mongrel Luongos tunes - and reduce / limit SX features. Get rid of the limits on track length that have come in over the years , it hasn't improved TV coverage.
Leave short races to National and SX racing and bring the length of the GP motos back up to the 'thinking' (and Endurance) and 'tactical' level sport it was with 40 + 2 laps, and GPs would be spot on.
Ultimately, the best thing for World MX would be removal of Luongo / Youthstream. And, a bit of caution on MX Sports / DCs part might be called for, too, even though they / he are a thousand times better than Luongo and his minions.
The best comments in that article are Simpsons , Willy brought up a great young man. Most of the rest, I call bullshit on.
Emasculating bike restrictions at World Level? It's Bullshit of the highest order, I feel.
The Cairolli argument is spot on, he's taken title after title through being not only being in the top 3 or so every race but by NOT getting hurt while all his contenders have, when has Desalle or Nagl finished a season? Shit even big guys like Bobby are always on the receiving end, seriously this year is the first time I remember him suffering injuries in forever and is it coincidence he is on a 450? Maybe, maybe not. YWould RV have been able to stop the rotation on something with less almighty inertia? Maybe, maybe not.
Yes we know KTM have a well developed 350 so we could be cynical about what's coming from that camp but if we can't listen to people like Beirer then there's something wrong with us IMO, respected and knowledgable professionals (owners, riders etc) who have made their lives in the sport have measured and correct input and should drive decisions.
I totally agree with you and Simpson about the tracks, although from what I've seen that doesn't crossover to the ama tracks (preparing to be told stfu here), they are a lot softer edged and generally really decent terrain underfoot (these are compliments btw) , so many GP tracks are strange terrain that need proper attention, NOT to make them easier but safer, there has to be an element of difficulty to separate riders and I think it starts with track development and people being educated from the perspective of a collective of pro riders. The comment about Matterley basin is on the money, how many have been and seen the speed down that section? Scary, more so on a sketchy track, luckily the basin gets prepared very well and others could learn from it, if the basin was like Sweden for example we would have zero survivors, nothing against the track in Sweden it's been a staple forever but it's the most recent example of really shitty track maintenance, this is the pinnacle of the sport, ama and GP professionals should be able to prove who is number one but with their safety in mind. Again, tracks shouldn't be easier, just safer in crucial areas. We want suspension and chassis development to pay off so tracks need to be rough and challenging but
Big jumps are fine, but how big are too big? I think the GP max out about 100 ft or so, surely on a racetrack that's enough especially with sketchy take offs and square edged lips etc. I'm not saying the ama jumps are too big as I think they seem to suit the nature of the tracks and ground, and I think there are less traumatic accidents on leaps anyway so don't attack me for trying to impose my small opinion onto the larger American style, that would be missing my point, aside from the recent accident on that big quad the other poignant memory for me in the ama is the chadapult, that was a long time ago, that's my thought on leaps at least, keep em but make em safer on take off and landing.
Of course there are arguments here, plenty of 250 riders both sides of the pond are getting messed up, so is it the 450 that needs change? Maybe and maybe not? There's certainly a group of riders that haven't been affected by it, Dungey for one, what would be his opinion?
I'm glad it's not me making the decisions because whoever or whatever it is there's going to be a huge backlash, whatever happens over the next 2 years we have to allow the governors of the sport to be trusted in their decisions. Something has to happen, every Monday on here and other forums the word brutal is mentioned when we look at the starting lists reducing.
Pit Row
It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.
Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.
In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.
I think where most of the injuries are happening is due to the tracks nowadays. The tracks all seem to be competing with each other on who can have the largest triple or jump on circuit. Look at Hangtown, they built a "loraccos leap" copy or at least attempted to. Tracks are being catered to the fan rather than the rider. People don't want to see riders on the ground racing closely, they want to see them up in the air flying and throwing big whips. Watch some races from the early 2000's and compare the tracks then to how they are now. We need to go back to more traditional style motocross tracks that aren't riddled with huge jumps and require more technicality and style to be able to go around the track fast. How many people in the pros can you name that have their own style of riding? Everyone rides the same or close to it today. Another thing to look at is how supercross has evolved too. Again look at some races from early 2000's and how technical the tracks were. Riders weren't going all that fast, the track tested their technical skills and how they could put together sections. They didn't have half the stadium for a run up to a triple. Triples in supercross in the early 2000's were what? 60ft, now they are 90ft?! Maybe I am crazy, but things are getting out of hand and the AMA and FIM need to makes things more rider central than catering to the fans needs all the time.
I enjoy reading your posts man, mostly because my brain reads them in a Sam Elliot voice which makes them even better.
"Oh, and F' the AMA"
it would have been perfect!
Honda has spent over 5 billion USD on development of their first jet, hope it is successful. Their stock price factoring inflation is down from 5 years ago while all the other major bike manufactures are up 41% to 400 plus %
Wouldn't allow embedding but start at 1:25
I really wish we could take a look at the ages of classes and CC's of bikes all together. These are not the same bikes we had even 10 years ago. Technology has helped push these bikes to horsepower levels that is unheard of. Kids are training much more, riding everyday, pushing their bodies to the max. Cobra and KTM are building 50 and 65 bikes that have an unbelievable HP to weight ratio, combine that with sometimes 55-65 pound riders and you can get some kids that are racing incredibly fast on small bikes. Its the same for the 85cc classes. KTM has really pushed this class to a new level. Kawasaki finally introduced a new 85 a year or so ago that gets closer to the KTM. With all the advancements in the bikes we should really take a look at the age of the kids riding each class.
I would love to sit down with the powers that be and discuss what I see at local and regional level every year. If we are going to keep letting manufacturers increase the power of the motors and the handling of the bikes then we need to do something different. Not to mention what we as parents then spend to mod these things out for the mod classes.
Someone also brought up track grooming in the article. They definitely nailed. These tracks need to be cut up deeper, especially in the start areas to slow the bikes down. I firmly believe that getting water down on the track early in the week before an event and then cutting it deep helps slow bikes down and also helps the track owner with touch up during a race weekend. Its very easy to go back and till a section that develops square edge breaking bumps/kickers if the track is kept wet/moist. The ruts in these sections will reform quickly. We can also keep our eyes on jump faces and fix those pretty easily if needed. We went to our first race up in Ohio for a regional recently. It was the first time I had ever experienced a racing on a hard pack track typical to the region. As a promoter/track operator I could see some spot that would be dangerous due to speed and the width of the race track. Luckily they got a lot of rain and that help slow everything down. From what I understand this is pretty standard for the area because of the rocky soil, but I would have still liked to have seen that place cut up after the rain, that being said the dirt had a lot of gumbo clay in it as well and it may have been even worse. Each track owner has to know his track/dirt and know what to do to keep it working. I know one of amateur national that has taken huge steps over the past two years via track changes, prep changes, and maintenance changes. I applaud them for doing this and I think it has made for great racing at the track over the last year and a half.
I just hope to see our sport trying to keep improving safety.
What I am saying, is that now, i believe KTM has the leverage to "wear that hat" and I believe that's exactly what is going on. I am glad to the Nth degree.. KTM is an innovative company that makes bikes people want to ride. If any OEM is going to twist the sanctioning body's arm for change, let it be KTM. Fuck Soichiro.
I don't think Honda will ever produce two strokes again due to their automotive focus.
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