Are You There, Two Stroke Taliban?

steed 2.0
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7/7/2015 10:10am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2015 3:28pm
Beirer: "For me - to be healthy and sable - the whole sport should be on two-stroke bikes from zero to MX2 and one premium class for all of us in America and the World Championship with a four-stroke bike at whatever capacity; whether it is with 200cc or 500cc with power limitations" Read More

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newmann
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7/7/2015 10:28am
This Beirer guy...must be new.



Whistling
7/7/2015 10:37am
I'm going to have to brush my teeth after saying this, but I don't think Luongo is that far off on this one.

The Shop

brewrabb
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7/7/2015 3:34pm
I'm going to have to brush my teeth after saying this, but I don't think Luongo is that far off on this one.
He nailed it on the last page of the article.
SwapperMX
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7/7/2015 4:17pm
Great article. Stating that they can no longer turn a blind eye to injuries speaks volumes. All these serious injuries that are occurring these days, it is not just the expansion of the internet and social media the reason behind hearing about all these serious injuries, it's the fact that there has actually been a massive increase in injuries and deaths within our sport.
Spergen
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7/7/2015 4:50pm
brewrabb wrote:
He nailed it on the last page of the article.
Indeed, interesting to read he is talking to Davy and Field ect and if a solution cannot be found they (FIM) will just impose one. I wander how that will go down ?

Something does need to be done though, 125 2 stroke class and 250f /350f premier class in my eyes
SwapperMX
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7/7/2015 4:53pm
Spergen wrote:
Indeed, interesting to read he is talking to Davy and Field ect and if a solution cannot be found they (FIM) will just impose one. I...
Indeed, interesting to read he is talking to Davy and Field ect and if a solution cannot be found they (FIM) will just impose one. I wander how that will go down ?

Something does need to be done though, 125 2 stroke class and 250f /350f premier class in my eyes
There would be something cool about seeing Dungey, Roczen, Stewart etc back on 250F's. I reckon that would be rad !!
gsxr6
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7/7/2015 8:29pm
250f, vs 250 2t if over 160 lbs say,for mx2/250 classes. And straight works class, anything goes up to a certain cc , for mx1/450 class would be amazing.
gsxr6
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7/7/2015 8:30pm
250f/125 are hard on the big guys like peick. Just not quite enough IMO.
gsxr6
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7/7/2015 8:34pm
Say 300cc works class and anything goes. Imagine seeing next years bike at this years races. I believe a certain prestige died with the end of works bikes in 86. Before that, the top riders bike were like two wheeled Ferraris. I'm sure inside they still are. Maybe allow 3 or 4 of every ten seasons to be works, and the rest to be production based the other 6 or 7 years. Many innovations would move to the production line in a cycle like that, as who wants to give up the advantages gained when a production year comes around. Would help amortize r and d and racing budgets into one as well.
gsxr6
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7/7/2015 8:39pm
The costs of r and d have risen to such levels that I believe works bikes would be cheaper, and ideas or changes would be much more battle tested before coming to market. Bikes like the 97 cr250, 2004 rmzkx250f, 2009 crf450, and 2010 yzf450 Would've been much better developed and received in a cycle like the one I described. The kinks could've been ironed out before the molds were cast so to speak. What glistens isn't always gold, and racing has a harsh way of exposing reality at the top levels.
steve_97060
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7/7/2015 9:43pm
wow, very interesting article, sounds like changes are coming one way or another..
Fearo
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7/8/2015 12:36am
Although I applaud Beirer for thinking outside the box, I don't think it would be a good idea to force a 2-stroke on everyone, and then create an 'elite' class for 4-strokes only.
I am a 2-stroke guy 'til I die, but the fact of the matter is, a large part of the average consumers want what the pro's race.

As dumb as that sounds to me, that's just how it is. Joe Schmoe wants a 2016 KTM SX-F 450 because that's what Dungey races. if you force him to ride a 250 2-stroke, he will stop going to his local races and just practice on his big 450 instead, or worse, he won't buy a new bike because he can't race it.

Something I do agree on wholeheartedly in that article, is the point Shaun Simpson is making: Sort out the tracks first, both in the US and in Europe. Take out the rediculous 150ft hucks in the US and stop flooding hardpack tracks 5 minutes before a moto in Europe. BOOM, injuries -50%.
The Rock
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7/8/2015 12:47am
My biggest question is what will the existing MX2/250 racers be on? In the states we need a support class at the Nationals and in SX. I have to dwell on what bikes would be best for MX2. For the 250 class in the states I would love to see 250 2 strokes racing against spec motor 250Fs

Emotionally speaking there has to be a place for 300cc two strokes somewhere in professional racing.
Bearuno
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7/8/2015 1:34am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2015 2:09am
A reimergence of Luongos wanting to make yet another mark on the sport. Another black, pus filled mark.

He wanted the Premier class to become 250fs a couple of years ago, when he tried that Superclass bullshit. And, prior to that, he tried the reduce the 450s to 350s crap. And, as good a bloke Pit Bull is, I take his thoughts on capacity restrictions with a cynical eye, due to his corporate connections.

Do some study - injuries are not at record levels. We've had high injury levels since motorcycling started, and it will always be the case. I'm not saying ignore it, but just be realistic - as my favourite Ortho said countless times to me, "the human body is made to take walking speed impacts at best, if you fall down, through to crashing at speed, and Not get hurt, count yourself lucky - and dress yourself for the crash, as best you can". A wise man, and a great bloke, that thinks other doctors that habitually slag bikes are wankers.

450s are just at the level of 500s from decades ago. We've not had huge power increases. 250fs - 'factory' / big dollar level ones - are just at the level that the same level 250 2ts were at a decade or so ago. With the real advancement being chassis / running gear.

Better track design and prep, well, maintenance really, ( mind you, I don't want tracks to be manicured, chocolate cake like surfaces, use the geology of the area, for fucks sake), get rid of Daryl Aitkens as the GP Track Lord - well that's perhaps a bit harsh, as he's dancing to that mongrel Luongos tunes - and reduce / limit SX features. Get rid of the limits on track length that have come in over the years , it hasn't improved TV coverage.

Leave short races to National and SX racing and bring the length of the GP motos back up to the 'thinking' (and Endurance) and 'tactical' level sport it was with 40 + 2 laps, and GPs would be spot on.

Ultimately, the best thing for World MX would be removal of Luongo / Youthstream. And, a bit of caution on MX Sports / DCs part might be called for, too, even though they / he are a thousand times better than Luongo and his minions.

The best comments in that article are Simpsons , Willy brought up a great young man. Most of the rest, I call bullshit on.

Emasculating bike restrictions at World Level? It's Bullshit of the highest order, I feel.
7/8/2015 2:38am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2015 2:42am
Bearuno wrote:
A reimergence of Luongos wanting to make yet another mark on the sport. Another black, pus filled mark. He wanted the Premier class to become 250fs...
A reimergence of Luongos wanting to make yet another mark on the sport. Another black, pus filled mark.

He wanted the Premier class to become 250fs a couple of years ago, when he tried that Superclass bullshit. And, prior to that, he tried the reduce the 450s to 350s crap. And, as good a bloke Pit Bull is, I take his thoughts on capacity restrictions with a cynical eye, due to his corporate connections.

Do some study - injuries are not at record levels. We've had high injury levels since motorcycling started, and it will always be the case. I'm not saying ignore it, but just be realistic - as my favourite Ortho said countless times to me, "the human body is made to take walking speed impacts at best, if you fall down, through to crashing at speed, and Not get hurt, count yourself lucky - and dress yourself for the crash, as best you can". A wise man, and a great bloke, that thinks other doctors that habitually slag bikes are wankers.

450s are just at the level of 500s from decades ago. We've not had huge power increases. 250fs - 'factory' / big dollar level ones - are just at the level that the same level 250 2ts were at a decade or so ago. With the real advancement being chassis / running gear.

Better track design and prep, well, maintenance really, ( mind you, I don't want tracks to be manicured, chocolate cake like surfaces, use the geology of the area, for fucks sake), get rid of Daryl Aitkens as the GP Track Lord - well that's perhaps a bit harsh, as he's dancing to that mongrel Luongos tunes - and reduce / limit SX features. Get rid of the limits on track length that have come in over the years , it hasn't improved TV coverage.

Leave short races to National and SX racing and bring the length of the GP motos back up to the 'thinking' (and Endurance) and 'tactical' level sport it was with 40 + 2 laps, and GPs would be spot on.

Ultimately, the best thing for World MX would be removal of Luongo / Youthstream. And, a bit of caution on MX Sports / DCs part might be called for, too, even though they / he are a thousand times better than Luongo and his minions.

The best comments in that article are Simpsons , Willy brought up a great young man. Most of the rest, I call bullshit on.

Emasculating bike restrictions at World Level? It's Bullshit of the highest order, I feel.
I'm thinking you are going to be amongst the minority bud. There will be a change and a reduction in size is imminent, too many arguments from the folk at the top IMO, is a 2 stroke motor the answer? Hmmm, I can't see it across the board as it would be a step backward but if changes are made to cc size and a zinger is allowed in on merit it's going to become an obvious choice very quickly, the arguments being posed are about controlling inertia, two strokes are just easier to control, even in the 250-300 range. We all know a 450 is a badass that bites and we aren't pushing them anywhere near the limit of these guys. I'm 185 and very strong but still when they want to tackle you, it's hard to stop.

The Cairolli argument is spot on, he's taken title after title through being not only being in the top 3 or so every race but by NOT getting hurt while all his contenders have, when has Desalle or Nagl finished a season? Shit even big guys like Bobby are always on the receiving end, seriously this year is the first time I remember him suffering injuries in forever and is it coincidence he is on a 450? Maybe, maybe not. YWould RV have been able to stop the rotation on something with less almighty inertia? Maybe, maybe not.

Yes we know KTM have a well developed 350 so we could be cynical about what's coming from that camp but if we can't listen to people like Beirer then there's something wrong with us IMO, respected and knowledgable professionals (owners, riders etc) who have made their lives in the sport have measured and correct input and should drive decisions.

I totally agree with you and Simpson about the tracks, although from what I've seen that doesn't crossover to the ama tracks (preparing to be told stfu here), they are a lot softer edged and generally really decent terrain underfoot (these are compliments btw) , so many GP tracks are strange terrain that need proper attention, NOT to make them easier but safer, there has to be an element of difficulty to separate riders and I think it starts with track development and people being educated from the perspective of a collective of pro riders. The comment about Matterley basin is on the money, how many have been and seen the speed down that section? Scary, more so on a sketchy track, luckily the basin gets prepared very well and others could learn from it, if the basin was like Sweden for example we would have zero survivors, nothing against the track in Sweden it's been a staple forever but it's the most recent example of really shitty track maintenance, this is the pinnacle of the sport, ama and GP professionals should be able to prove who is number one but with their safety in mind. Again, tracks shouldn't be easier, just safer in crucial areas. We want suspension and chassis development to pay off so tracks need to be rough and challenging but

Big jumps are fine, but how big are too big? I think the GP max out about 100 ft or so, surely on a racetrack that's enough especially with sketchy take offs and square edged lips etc. I'm not saying the ama jumps are too big as I think they seem to suit the nature of the tracks and ground, and I think there are less traumatic accidents on leaps anyway so don't attack me for trying to impose my small opinion onto the larger American style, that would be missing my point, aside from the recent accident on that big quad the other poignant memory for me in the ama is the chadapult, that was a long time ago, that's my thought on leaps at least, keep em but make em safer on take off and landing.

Of course there are arguments here, plenty of 250 riders both sides of the pond are getting messed up, so is it the 450 that needs change? Maybe and maybe not? There's certainly a group of riders that haven't been affected by it, Dungey for one, what would be his opinion?

I'm glad it's not me making the decisions because whoever or whatever it is there's going to be a huge backlash, whatever happens over the next 2 years we have to allow the governors of the sport to be trusted in their decisions. Something has to happen, every Monday on here and other forums the word brutal is mentioned when we look at the starting lists reducing.

7/8/2015 5:30am
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

Speeddemon73
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Grand Rapids, MI US
7/8/2015 5:56am
I have been riding two strokes ever since I moved up from my first bike (XR 80). After my 80, I went to a CR85, then CR125, CR250, and now I have a YZ450F. I love my two strokes and they are relatively simple to maintain, but so are current model four stroke bikes. Where things get expensive in amatuer racing, from what I have seen, is that families and younger privateers feel the need that they have to throw on every factory part on their bike in order to be competitive. When in reality you really only need a good set of suspension and good tires. Modern race bikes are pretty dang fast and powerful out of the box and probably only a small percentage of riders can actually ride a stock bike to their full potential. But people throw on exhausts, and expensive wheel sets, porting, head mods, A-kit suspension all for their kid who is a mid pack b-rider and then complain how expensive racing is. Just keep it simple, and unless your kid or you are going to make it in the big leagues, don't waste the money on building a factory bike because you will never be happy and only be left with empty pockets. Suspension, tires, and ride it!

I think where most of the injuries are happening is due to the tracks nowadays. The tracks all seem to be competing with each other on who can have the largest triple or jump on circuit. Look at Hangtown, they built a "loraccos leap" copy or at least attempted to. Tracks are being catered to the fan rather than the rider. People don't want to see riders on the ground racing closely, they want to see them up in the air flying and throwing big whips. Watch some races from the early 2000's and compare the tracks then to how they are now. We need to go back to more traditional style motocross tracks that aren't riddled with huge jumps and require more technicality and style to be able to go around the track fast. How many people in the pros can you name that have their own style of riding? Everyone rides the same or close to it today. Another thing to look at is how supercross has evolved too. Again look at some races from early 2000's and how technical the tracks were. Riders weren't going all that fast, the track tested their technical skills and how they could put together sections. They didn't have half the stadium for a run up to a triple. Triples in supercross in the early 2000's were what? 60ft, now they are 90ft?! Maybe I am crazy, but things are getting out of hand and the AMA and FIM need to makes things more rider central than catering to the fans needs all the time.
Frodad78
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7/8/2015 6:04am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

"Fuck off and stick to cars and robots" haha

I enjoy reading your posts man, mostly because my brain reads them in a Sam Elliot voice which makes them even better.
Speeddemon73
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Grand Rapids, MI US
7/8/2015 6:06am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as well. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawi kept their two stroke programs as long as they could. kawi still makes mini bike two strokes and so does Suzuki. Yamaha was the first to have a 250f on the circuit in 2001. Honda brought out their 250f in 2004 because there were more Yamaha four stroke riders on the track than any other manufacturer. People are more inclined to buy a certain brand if there are more of them on the track than the others. Kawasaki/Suzuki also brought out their 4 stroke lites bikes in 2004 as well. Who you should be pointing the finger at is the AMA. At this time they banned leaded race fuel which is key to making a two stroke powerful. No more leaded fuel for factory two strokes, so the logical reason for teams to keep going fast was to switch to 4 strokes which made more power on unleaded fuel than two strokes.
nytsmaC
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7/8/2015 6:07am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

Frodad78 wrote:
"Fuck off and stick to cars and robots" haha I enjoy reading your posts man, mostly because my brain reads them in a Sam Elliot voice...
"Fuck off and stick to cars and robots" haha

I enjoy reading your posts man, mostly because my brain reads them in a Sam Elliot voice which makes them even better.
His posts are always epic.. Not always 100% factual, but IDGAF
newmann
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US
7/8/2015 6:24am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as...
I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as well. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawi kept their two stroke programs as long as they could. kawi still makes mini bike two strokes and so does Suzuki. Yamaha was the first to have a 250f on the circuit in 2001. Honda brought out their 250f in 2004 because there were more Yamaha four stroke riders on the track than any other manufacturer. People are more inclined to buy a certain brand if there are more of them on the track than the others. Kawasaki/Suzuki also brought out their 4 stroke lites bikes in 2004 as well. Who you should be pointing the finger at is the AMA. At this time they banned leaded race fuel which is key to making a two stroke powerful. No more leaded fuel for factory two strokes, so the logical reason for teams to keep going fast was to switch to 4 strokes which made more power on unleaded fuel than two strokes.
You do realize he was speaking of road racing, right? Although it does apply to MX. If only he would have closed with an

"Oh, and F' the AMA"

it would have been perfect!Laughing
endurox
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Garden City, ID US
7/8/2015 7:18am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.




Honda has spent over 5 billion USD on development of their first jet, hope it is successful. Their stock price factoring inflation is down from 5 years ago while all the other major bike manufactures are up 41% to 400 plus %
seth505
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7/8/2015 7:28am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as...
I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as well. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawi kept their two stroke programs as long as they could. kawi still makes mini bike two strokes and so does Suzuki. Yamaha was the first to have a 250f on the circuit in 2001. Honda brought out their 250f in 2004 because there were more Yamaha four stroke riders on the track than any other manufacturer. People are more inclined to buy a certain brand if there are more of them on the track than the others. Kawasaki/Suzuki also brought out their 4 stroke lites bikes in 2004 as well. Who you should be pointing the finger at is the AMA. At this time they banned leaded race fuel which is key to making a two stroke powerful. No more leaded fuel for factory two strokes, so the logical reason for teams to keep going fast was to switch to 4 strokes which made more power on unleaded fuel than two strokes.
https://youtu.be/DeSqrW-lYUQ?list=LLcySFkFzPB-Xhn4r2ANE6rQ

Wouldn't allow embedding but start at 1:25
clmartin22
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Fulton, MS US
7/8/2015 8:08am
Guys this goes much deeper than just what the pro's are running. We really need to take a look at our sport all the way down to the amateur level. We have kids on 65's turning lap times with a few seconds of supermini classes every weekend. 50's that are as fast as 85's. We as parents/riders have pushed the limits of what our bodies can take.

I really wish we could take a look at the ages of classes and CC's of bikes all together. These are not the same bikes we had even 10 years ago. Technology has helped push these bikes to horsepower levels that is unheard of. Kids are training much more, riding everyday, pushing their bodies to the max. Cobra and KTM are building 50 and 65 bikes that have an unbelievable HP to weight ratio, combine that with sometimes 55-65 pound riders and you can get some kids that are racing incredibly fast on small bikes. Its the same for the 85cc classes. KTM has really pushed this class to a new level. Kawasaki finally introduced a new 85 a year or so ago that gets closer to the KTM. With all the advancements in the bikes we should really take a look at the age of the kids riding each class.

I would love to sit down with the powers that be and discuss what I see at local and regional level every year. If we are going to keep letting manufacturers increase the power of the motors and the handling of the bikes then we need to do something different. Not to mention what we as parents then spend to mod these things out for the mod classes.

Someone also brought up track grooming in the article. They definitely nailed. These tracks need to be cut up deeper, especially in the start areas to slow the bikes down. I firmly believe that getting water down on the track early in the week before an event and then cutting it deep helps slow bikes down and also helps the track owner with touch up during a race weekend. Its very easy to go back and till a section that develops square edge breaking bumps/kickers if the track is kept wet/moist. The ruts in these sections will reform quickly. We can also keep our eyes on jump faces and fix those pretty easily if needed. We went to our first race up in Ohio for a regional recently. It was the first time I had ever experienced a racing on a hard pack track typical to the region. As a promoter/track operator I could see some spot that would be dangerous due to speed and the width of the race track. Luckily they got a lot of rain and that help slow everything down. From what I understand this is pretty standard for the area because of the rocky soil, but I would have still liked to have seen that place cut up after the rain, that being said the dirt had a lot of gumbo clay in it as well and it may have been even worse. Each track owner has to know his track/dirt and know what to do to keep it working. I know one of amateur national that has taken huge steps over the past two years via track changes, prep changes, and maintenance changes. I applaud them for doing this and I think it has made for great racing at the track over the last year and a half.

I just hope to see our sport trying to keep improving safety.
7/8/2015 8:27am
The "change" It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more...
The "change"

It's going to end up being 300 two-bangers in the 450 class. Nothing will be said by the OEMs, no one will care, more than likely.... until KTM sticks Herlings or someone of that caliber on a DI 300 and he obliterates the MXGP class on a lighter more controllable bike with infinitely less rotating mass. Then Honda will cry.

Let me tell you why Honda needs to just fuck off and stick to cars and robots.

In MotoGP, Honda pushed the 125s out in favor of their spec (at the time) 250F turd, which, for the first two years couldnt keep up with the 125s lap times. Well, at that point KTM entered that series with a 250F and proceeded to demolish Honda. Honda then stated "we will pull out of the series because KTM made it too expensive"... This is coming from the company that pushed 125s out, pushed 250s out, and pushed the 500s out. The hypocracy of that statement alone leads me to believe that the upper brass at Honda is utterly fucking delusional and/or stupid.

I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as...
I don't think Honda pushed anything out. If you blame Honda for pushing out two stroke programs, then you have to blame Suzuki, and Kawasaki as well. Honda, Suzuki, and Kawi kept their two stroke programs as long as they could. kawi still makes mini bike two strokes and so does Suzuki. Yamaha was the first to have a 250f on the circuit in 2001. Honda brought out their 250f in 2004 because there were more Yamaha four stroke riders on the track than any other manufacturer. People are more inclined to buy a certain brand if there are more of them on the track than the others. Kawasaki/Suzuki also brought out their 4 stroke lites bikes in 2004 as well. Who you should be pointing the finger at is the AMA. At this time they banned leaded race fuel which is key to making a two stroke powerful. No more leaded fuel for factory two strokes, so the logical reason for teams to keep going fast was to switch to 4 strokes which made more power on unleaded fuel than two strokes.
newmann wrote:
You do realize he was speaking of road racing, right? Although it does apply to MX. If only he would have closed with an "Oh, and...
You do realize he was speaking of road racing, right? Although it does apply to MX. If only he would have closed with an

"Oh, and F' the AMA"

it would have been perfect!Laughing
Yes, I was speaking of road racing, because that's where it started with them, circa 2000. Their coercion and manipulation of the rules at the time was out in the open. It's no conspiracy theory. Honda is a parasite that has been using all facets of motorsports for their own R&D since the mid 80s.

What I am saying, is that now, i believe KTM has the leverage to "wear that hat" and I believe that's exactly what is going on. I am glad to the Nth degree.. KTM is an innovative company that makes bikes people want to ride. If any OEM is going to twist the sanctioning body's arm for change, let it be KTM. Fuck Soichiro.
The Rock
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7/8/2015 11:01am
Which of the other four Japanese makes cars? Only Suzuki and they sell a fraction of what Honda produces. Reason why this car aspect is important is Honda is on a four stroke only mission with all of their products.

I don't think Honda will ever produce two strokes again due to their automotive focus.
steed 2.0
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7/8/2015 11:10am
The Rock wrote:
Which of the other four Japanese makes cars? Only Suzuki and they sell a fraction of what Honda produces. Reason why this car aspect is important...
Which of the other four Japanese makes cars? Only Suzuki and they sell a fraction of what Honda produces. Reason why this car aspect is important is Honda is on a four stroke only mission with all of their products.

I don't think Honda will ever produce two strokes again due to their automotive focus.
Honda mopeds / scooters two strokes?

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