Anyone looked to see if a chase would change the past

racingfortheson
Edited Date/Time 4/9/2016 8:21am
As anyone went back and looked to see how a chase would have effected any past years of SX?
|
blusmbl
Profile picture for user blusmbl
Posts
1283
Joined
3/19/2012
Location
Plymouth, MI US
blusmbl 4/7/2016 7:40pm
4/7/2016 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/7/2016 8:00pm
Yeah, it was shared in some previous threads that I can't find right now. The one year Villopoto hurt his knee (13?) in Seattle, Brayton would've won the championship. There may have been one other outcome difference.

Edit: that was apparently 2012.
1st Amendment 4/7/2016 7:57pm
4/7/2016 7:57pm
The system is great for the fans who's rider is not winning. Does anyone think Feld would actually be considering a chase system if Monster RV was still out there winning?
Mit12
Profile picture for user Mit12
Posts
1996
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
Mit12 4/7/2016 9:11pm
4/7/2016 9:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/7/2016 9:12pm
No disrespect to Brayton but if having a format that would allow him to be SX champion is a joke. He is a good rider but no ware near championship material. He has never won a SX main. The fact that he would have been SX champion is proof that the chase format is flawed.

The Shop

See All »
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8029
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 4/7/2016 9:50pm
4/7/2016 9:50pm
Mit12 wrote:
No disrespect to Brayton but if having a format that would allow him to be SX champion is a joke. He is a good rider but...
No disrespect to Brayton but if having a format that would allow him to be SX champion is a joke. He is a good rider but no ware near championship material. He has never won a SX main. The fact that he would have been SX champion is proof that the chase format is flawed.
The fact that you passed high school lit is more unbelievable.
hamburglar13 4/7/2016 9:59pm
4/7/2016 9:59pm
How can you have an answer to this without knowing the format of the chase? We have no idea how long it will be or how they will seed the riders.
TripleFive 4/7/2016 10:24pm
4/7/2016 10:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/7/2016 10:24pm
hamburglar13 wrote:
How can you have an answer to this without knowing the format of the chase? We have no idea how long it will be or how...
How can you have an answer to this without knowing the format of the chase? We have no idea how long it will be or how they will seed the riders.
I don't know what it is, I don't know how it will work, and I don't like it. I would not, could not, in the rain. Not in the dark. Not on a train, Not in a car, Not in a tree. I do not like the chase format, VitalMX, you see.
KirkChandler
Profile picture for user KirkChandler
Posts
1667
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA US
Fantasy
278th
KirkChandler 4/7/2016 10:43pm
4/7/2016 10:43pm
hamburglar13 wrote:
How can you have an answer to this without knowing the format of the chase? We have no idea how long it will be or how...
How can you have an answer to this without knowing the format of the chase? We have no idea how long it will be or how they will seed the riders.
True. It's all hypothetical.

We should know about 5 weeks into the 2017 season how the format will work. Just like this year how 250 teams didn't know if the Vegas race was a points paying race or if they were splitting points East/West. Or we will know in Vegas.
Starcrossed
Profile picture for user Starcrossed
Posts
3162
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
Starcrossed 4/8/2016 3:44am
4/8/2016 3:44am
Not only does not knowing the formula make these scenarios hypothetical, but each team and rider would have taken different approaches based on the format and where they stood in the standings. This argument, contending that Brayton would have been champion, holds no water, in my estimation.

Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
10691
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 4/8/2016 3:47am
4/8/2016 3:47am
Starcrossed wrote:
Not only does not knowing the formula make these scenarios hypothetical, but each team and rider would have taken different approaches based on the format and...
Not only does not knowing the formula make these scenarios hypothetical, but each team and rider would have taken different approaches based on the format and where they stood in the standings. This argument, contending that Brayton would have been champion, holds no water, in my estimation.

I agree with you on that. The thing is, in a chase system a guy like Brayton COULD come out and win the thing. I think that's the real problem here.

But we will just have to wait for late 2016 or if i know how the AMA/FIM/FELD does things we'll know the day before A1.
Starcrossed
Profile picture for user Starcrossed
Posts
3162
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
Starcrossed 4/8/2016 4:00am
4/8/2016 4:00am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2016 4:22am
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers already prepping for outdoors. They will be making sure they are ready for the chase. Dropping this dreamed up format, like an overlay on years past, is beyond meaningless.

The numbers(one point), only work in Brayton's favor in a seven race chase, six or five, would have given it to Millsaps. Is he not worthy either? It's time an adjustment was made to put more emphasis on the final rounds of the series, rather than have somebody walking away with it, four out of five years.

http://archives.amasupercross.com/2012/17/sxpoints.pdf

71Fish
Profile picture for user 71Fish
Posts
1794
Joined
11/29/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
71Fish 4/8/2016 4:18am
4/8/2016 4:18am
Has it been determined how many races make up the chase? How many riders? Points system? Until those and more questions are known it can't be determined how past races could have changed or what future races will look like.
DonM
Profile picture for user DonM
Posts
6763
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
DonM 4/8/2016 4:57am
4/8/2016 4:57am
That chart shows all riders starting equal with 0 points without any seeding points, if the seeding points were more than 1 for each position then Milsaps would have won...
I'm on the fence on this I understand the reasoning is to make the season have a climatic finish but I would rather they also look at changing the points structure to try to accomplish the same thing over a full season.
Trig331
Profile picture for user Trig331
Posts
183
Joined
9/3/2010
Location
Denver, CO US
Trig331 4/8/2016 5:20am
4/8/2016 5:20am
Starcrossed wrote:
Not only does not knowing the formula make these scenarios hypothetical, but each team and rider would have taken different approaches based on the format and...
Not only does not knowing the formula make these scenarios hypothetical, but each team and rider would have taken different approaches based on the format and where they stood in the standings. This argument, contending that Brayton would have been champion, holds no water, in my estimation.

Motofinne wrote:
I agree with you on that. The thing is, in a chase system a guy like Brayton COULD come out and win the thing. I think...
I agree with you on that. The thing is, in a chase system a guy like Brayton COULD come out and win the thing. I think that's the real problem here.

But we will just have to wait for late 2016 or if i know how the AMA/FIM/FELD does things we'll know the day before A1.
Why is the possibility of an "underdog" winning the Championship a bad thing? Trying new things isn't the worst thing in the world for a sport that has done the same thing for 40 years. Most sports have some type of a playoff and in order to win, you have to perform best at the right time and if you don't, tough luck. We could at least wait to find out what the changes will be before deciding if we think it's good or bad.
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
Markee 4/8/2016 5:22am
4/8/2016 5:22am
Sorry, chase or not, guys like dungey will still win.

But hey, 5 rounds to go and a 42 point lead is exciting too.

If we did have a chase right now, awarded 2 points for every win to start the chase, this is how it would look after 2 rounds in:

1: Dungey 55
2. Anderson 47
3 Roczen 43
etc...
Starcrossed
Profile picture for user Starcrossed
Posts
3162
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
Starcrossed 4/8/2016 5:33am
4/8/2016 5:33am
I wouldn't mind seeing Brayton win the championship. I'll freely admit I'll be watching no matter what the format. Wouldn't affect me one bit. I would be happy for him...but, yeah, like Markee said, nobody's going to beat Dungey right now, in any format. If he had to win any one race, he would find a way to win it. That's how good he is right now. I hope Tomac can take some of his shine away outdoors.
jmx411
Profile picture for user jmx411
Posts
1257
Joined
4/19/2009
Location
Leesville, SC US
jmx411 4/8/2016 7:39am
4/8/2016 7:39am
I said it in another thread and I will say it again. Until they can find a way to keep Dungey from starting in the top 3 every weekend it does not matter what type of format Feld uses.
BAMX
Profile picture for user BAMX
Posts
2842
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
BAMX 4/8/2016 10:00am
4/8/2016 10:00am
Starcrossed wrote:
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers...
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers already prepping for outdoors. They will be making sure they are ready for the chase. Dropping this dreamed up format, like an overlay on years past, is beyond meaningless.

The numbers(one point), only work in Brayton's favor in a seven race chase, six or five, would have given it to Millsaps. Is he not worthy either? It's time an adjustment was made to put more emphasis on the final rounds of the series, rather than have somebody walking away with it, four out of five years.

http://archives.amasupercross.com/2012/17/sxpoints.pdf

How do you come to that conclusion? You are going to mathematically eliminate at least half of the field. They are going to be in exactly the same position they are now. Sure, you will have a couple more guys that can win the championship but in reality, those guys are of the mindset that they want to win each and every week. I don't buy that Roczen, Anderson, Canard etc. aren't trying as hard because of the points. There are sizeable bonuses for them to do so. If you really wanted better racing, you would increase the money as the year goes on.

Pit Row

See All »
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 4/8/2016 10:07am
4/8/2016 10:07am
racingfortheson wrote:
As anyone went back and looked to see how a chase would have effected any past years of SX?
Your totally missing the point of the Chase!
Mit12
Profile picture for user Mit12
Posts
1996
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
Mit12 4/8/2016 10:08am
4/8/2016 10:08am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2016 10:12am
Mit12 wrote:
No disrespect to Brayton but if having a format that would allow him to be SX champion is a joke. He is a good rider but...
No disrespect to Brayton but if having a format that would allow him to be SX champion is a joke. He is a good rider but no ware near championship material. He has never won a SX main. The fact that he would have been SX champion is proof that the chase format is flawed.
BobPA wrote:
The fact that you passed high school lit is more unbelievable.
The fact that you need to criticize people to make you feel better says a lot about you. I hope you fill empowered and great about yourself! Your comment was a real benifit to this post.
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 4/8/2016 10:22am
4/8/2016 10:22am
The chase format is all about bringing a new reason for excitement to the series, Has nothing to do with changing the outcome of the champion.

Right now no one cares who is 10th-12th the chase brings interest to those positions as points of new interest!
racingfortheson 4/8/2016 10:26am
4/8/2016 10:26am
racingfortheson wrote:
As anyone went back and looked to see how a chase would have effected any past years of SX?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Your totally missing the point of the Chase!
Your totally missing piont of my post
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 4/8/2016 10:29am
4/8/2016 10:29am
racingfortheson wrote:
As anyone went back and looked to see how a chase would have effected any past years of SX?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Your totally missing the point of the Chase!
racingfortheson wrote:
Your totally missing piont of my post
No I'm not, your asking if it would have affected anything.....it's not about affecting it or changing it, the chase is about creating excitement for something that isn't so exciting.
racingfortheson 4/8/2016 10:45am
4/8/2016 10:45am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Your totally missing the point of the Chase!
racingfortheson wrote:
Your totally missing piont of my post
kkawboy14 wrote:
No I'm not, your asking if it would have affected anything.....it's not about affecting it or changing it, the chase is about creating excitement for something...
No I'm not, your asking if it would have affected anything.....it's not about affecting it or changing it, the chase is about creating excitement for something that isn't so exciting.
I know it isn't about changing the outcome, but the question is, would it have changed it?
Phillip_Lamb
Profile picture for user Phillip_Lamb
Posts
1924
Joined
12/14/2010
Location
ORANGEVALE, CA US
Fantasy
2362nd
Phillip_Lamb 4/8/2016 11:20am
4/8/2016 11:20am
Starcrossed wrote:
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers...
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers already prepping for outdoors. They will be making sure they are ready for the chase. Dropping this dreamed up format, like an overlay on years past, is beyond meaningless.

The numbers(one point), only work in Brayton's favor in a seven race chase, six or five, would have given it to Millsaps. Is he not worthy either? It's time an adjustment was made to put more emphasis on the final rounds of the series, rather than have somebody walking away with it, four out of five years.

http://archives.amasupercross.com/2012/17/sxpoints.pdf

how is it weak due to guys getting ready for outdoors?

its weak due to the amount of injuries and lack of difficulty in the tracks.

why does there need to be an emphasis on the remaining rounds? shouldnt the WHOLE series matter? If only the last part matters why race the first half?(yes i know theyll be "qualifiers" but look at gavin faith, all the hard work he put it is meaningless. And the guy leading is someone who JUST hit stride. Thats the point of racing and entire series, its about being there every week.

I get the idea that we want there to be a "cause" for guys to still go out and race hard at the end but its also a LONG series. Its got more rounds than the mx series that follows directly after. What about the MX series? is this no longer relevant? what about the negative effects on that series?

also guys get hurt with regular frequency as it is. What'll happen when guys are pushing the limit at the end? sure bikes may finally get setup right at the last half but now there is an urgency which may cause accidents and more injuries.

the only reason i keep hearing is that everyone is "TIRED" of someone walking away with a title. Maybe we should dungey quit? or tell him because he has a full race lead to not show up for one race? should we tie his arm up?

my op on fixing the season?
cut out 3-4 rounds. take a weekend off each month. and add in more main event races and a 125 class and a 250 national title, dump the east west.
Ted722
Profile picture for user Ted722
Posts
4487
Joined
9/21/2011
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Ted722 4/8/2016 1:24pm
4/8/2016 1:24pm
racingfortheson wrote:
As anyone went back and looked to see how a chase would have effected any past years of SX?
I think Carmichael might have ended up hitting a few more boats.
Dezerted
Profile picture for user Dezerted
Posts
637
Joined
11/10/2011
Location
Temecula, CA US
Dezerted 4/8/2016 1:44pm
4/8/2016 1:44pm
Doesn't matter what we think but I'm for change.. If you're not looking for ways to improve the series then you're not doing your job. Every sport makes changes both big and small, some work, some don't. Status quo usually sucks
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 4/8/2016 2:28pm
4/8/2016 2:28pm
Starcrossed wrote:
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers...
Not going to happen. The focus is going to be on the back half of the schedule now. No more weak fields, with half the racers already prepping for outdoors. They will be making sure they are ready for the chase. Dropping this dreamed up format, like an overlay on years past, is beyond meaningless.

The numbers(one point), only work in Brayton's favor in a seven race chase, six or five, would have given it to Millsaps. Is he not worthy either? It's time an adjustment was made to put more emphasis on the final rounds of the series, rather than have somebody walking away with it, four out of five years.

http://archives.amasupercross.com/2012/17/sxpoints.pdf

Phillip_Lamb wrote:
how is it weak due to guys getting ready for outdoors? its weak due to the amount of injuries and lack of difficulty in the tracks...
how is it weak due to guys getting ready for outdoors?

its weak due to the amount of injuries and lack of difficulty in the tracks.

why does there need to be an emphasis on the remaining rounds? shouldnt the WHOLE series matter? If only the last part matters why race the first half?(yes i know theyll be "qualifiers" but look at gavin faith, all the hard work he put it is meaningless. And the guy leading is someone who JUST hit stride. Thats the point of racing and entire series, its about being there every week.

I get the idea that we want there to be a "cause" for guys to still go out and race hard at the end but its also a LONG series. Its got more rounds than the mx series that follows directly after. What about the MX series? is this no longer relevant? what about the negative effects on that series?

also guys get hurt with regular frequency as it is. What'll happen when guys are pushing the limit at the end? sure bikes may finally get setup right at the last half but now there is an urgency which may cause accidents and more injuries.

the only reason i keep hearing is that everyone is "TIRED" of someone walking away with a title. Maybe we should dungey quit? or tell him because he has a full race lead to not show up for one race? should we tie his arm up?

my op on fixing the season?
cut out 3-4 rounds. take a weekend off each month. and add in more main event races and a 125 class and a 250 national title, dump the east west.
Your suggestions sound s lot like the GPs

My suggestion: do away with the east west, both classes 30 man mains, 25 and 20 laps, add 8 rounds
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35700
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
1215th
GuyB 4/8/2016 5:10pm
4/8/2016 5:10pm
It all comes down to the format they use, how the points are reset, etc. I don't know that anyone (other than at Feld) knows the exact format.
Mit12
Profile picture for user Mit12
Posts
1996
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
Mit12 4/8/2016 5:38pm
4/8/2016 5:38pm
There is a good wright up about FELD and SX in the new MXA. It's all about entertainment not racing.

Post a reply to: Anyone looked to see if a chase would change the past