Posts
3022
Joined
1/17/2010
Location
Claremont, NC
US
Edited Date/Time
1/25/2012 2:21pm
unflattering story tonight about kids under 16 yrs. getting killed/maimed/hurt on ATV's? I know this is a moto board and we sometimes ridicule the "couch riders' but this kind of negative publicity doesn't bode well for the motorcycle industry as a whole. This story reminded me of the piece Hugh Downs and Barbara Wawa (Walters) did around 1984 - 1985 on 3 - wheelers. I was a Honda m/c dealer during that time and sales started plummeting right after that story aired. I hope tonight's journalistic gem doesn't have the same effect on today's dealers as that did on me. With the economy the way it is this industry can't stand much negative publicity.
The Shop
see it here on hulu
he's got a fucking brain, why quote some B.S. stats?
There was no data on anything.
Nothing on how many kids get hurt playing football either, even tho they made an example
of one that got hurt. riding a quad.
They had an agenda, and that agenda was to put quads in a bad light.
His 2005 study can be found here:
ATV injury study
Here's an interesting excerpt:
For example, on the basis of the number of injuries per 100,000 participants, ATV riding is safer than football, basketball, wrestling, bicycling, soccer, baseball, snow skiing, snowboarding, skateboarding, softball, ice hockey, boxing, roller skating, and several other recreational activities.
So why is it that ATV's are a target? Is the gov't seeking to outlaw participation in football, soccer, etc? An make no mistake gang, what happens to ATV's will flow to bikes.
It was also interesting to note that there were groups there testifying under a banner of a medical coalition that had members from environmental activist groups. Strange bedfellows, don't you think?
H
Safety
ATVs were first introduced in the early 1970s and almost immediately realized alarming injury rates for children and adolescents.[8] Based on analysis of the National Trauma Data Bank ATVs are more dangerous than dirt bikes, possibly due to crush injuries and failure to wear safety gear such as helmets.[9] They are equally as dangerous as motorcycles, based on mortality and injury scores.[10] More children and women are injured on ATVs, who also present a lower rate of helmet usage.[11]
In the United States, statistics released by CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) show that in 2005, there were an estimated 136,700 injuries associated with ATVs treated in US hospital emergency rooms. In 2004, the latest year for which estimates are available, 767 people died in ATV-associated incidents. According to statistics released by CPSC, the risk of injury in 2005 was 171.5 injuries per 10,000 four-wheel ATVs in use. The risk of death in 2004 was 1.1 deaths per 10,000 four-wheelers in use.[12] Focus has shifted to machine size balanced with the usage of ATVs categorized by age ranges and engine displacements—in line with the consent decrees. ATVs are mandated to bear a label from the manufacturer stating that the use of machines greater than 90 cc by riders under the age of 12 is prohibited. This is a 'manufacturer/CPSC recommendation' and not necessarily state law.
The American Academy of Pediatrics and the CPSC recommended that no children under the age of 16 should ride ATVs.[13] A Canadian study stated that "associated injury patterns, severity, and costs to the healthcare system" of pediatric injuries associated to ATVs resemble those caused by Motor Vehicles, and that public policies should reflect this fact
In 1988, the All-terrain Vehicle Safety Institute (ASI) was formed to provide training and education for ATV riders.[14] The cost of attending the training is minimal and is free for purchasers of new machines that fall within the correct age/size guidelines. Successful completion of a safety training class is, in many states, a minimum requirement for minor-age children to be granted permission to ride on state land. Some states have had to implement their own safety training programs, as the ASI program cannot include those riders with ATVs outside of the age/size guidelines, which may still fall within the states laws.
According to The New York Times on September 2, 2007, the Consumer Product Safety Commission met in March 2005 to discuss the dangers of ATVs. Data from 2004 showed 44,000 children under 16 injured while riding ATVs, 150 of them fatally.[15] Says the Times, "National associations of pediatricians, consumer advocates and emergency room doctors were urging the commission to ban sales of adult-size ATVs for use by children under 16 because the machines were too big and fast for young drivers to control. But when it came time to consider such a step, a staff member whose name did not appear on the meeting agenda unexpectedly weighed in." That staff member was John Gibson Mullan, "the agency’s director of compliance and a former lawyer for the A.T.V. industry" - the Times bases the claim on a recording of the meeting. Mullan reportedly said that the existing system of warnings and voluntary compliance was working. The agency's hazard statistician, Robin Ingle, was not allowed to present a rebuttal. She told the Times in an interview, "He had hijacked the presentation. He was distorting the numbers in order to benefit industry and defeat the petition. It was almost like he still worked for them, not us." CPSC reports of ATV deaths and injuries show an increase in the raw numbers of deaths and injuries that is statistically significant. The rate of deaths and injuries, which takes into account the fact that the number of ATVs in use has risen over the last ten years, has been shown to have experienced no statistically significant change.[16]
The United States government maintains a website about the safety of ATVs[17] where safety tips are provided, such as not driving ATVs with a passenger (passengers make difficult or impossible for the driver to shift their weight, as required to drive an ATV) or not driving ATVs on paved roads (ATVs usually have a solid rear axle with no differential). There also exists a website created by parents whose children died in ATVs accidents.[18]
Many common injuries can be prevented with the use of proper protective equipment. Most ATV manufacturers recommend at least a suitable DOT approved helmet, protective eyewear, gloves, and suitable riding boots for all riding conditions. Sport or aggressive riders, or riders on challenging terrain (such as rock crawling or hillclimbing) may opt for a motocross style chest protector and knee/shin guards for further protection.
This story points out the real problem with ATV's. They are perceived by the general public as being easy to operate and fun. While that's mostly true, there is actually a lot to be learned about them before you can really have fun. We've all laughed at videos of ladies bouncing over the bars and things like that. Most people have absolutely no frame of reference for what happens when they ride anything on bumpy ground, much less take jumps. Likewise most people have no frame of reference for riding things over loose surfaces like gravel or dirt, where wheelspin and sliding are common. Add in the inexperience of a child and their smaller body size and strength, and it's a recipe for disaster.
The news story highlights this. The girl was 12, and you can see her at the beginning. She's not an experienced offroad rider. She probably isn't even an experienced bicycle rider. Yet they rented an ATV for her and the first place the tour operator took her and the family was straight from the lunch table to a 90 degree turn onto the edge of a 200 foot cliff. She didn't successfully negotiate the turn.
Is the ATV the sole fault here? Obviously not.
But that's the way the public views ATV's. They think you can go from zero to hero in 3 seconds.
Motorcycles, on the other hand, don't have this problem. The public views motorcycles as edgy, dangerous. They know that there is skill involved in riding one, and most won't even get on one. They tend not to get on one and immediately ride it to a precipice, or do anything risky. They putt around in a pasture or the backyard first, spend time learning how they ride and handle it.
Everyone thinks an ATV is just sit on it and blast away.
There's the danger problem. The accident and death rates prove it.
Pit Row
The media isn't about reporting news, it's about making money and good news stories don't make money.
Anyone can sit on a ATV and push the throttle--and you see it all the time where I live. Idiots riding around down backroads at 50 mph with ZERO safety equipment. Kids, etc.
ATVs may not be inherently more dangerous than 2 wheeled vehicles, but those that choose to ride ATVs seem to be inherently more danger to themselves than 2 wheeled enthusiasts.
http://gazette.jhu.edu/2010/10/11/surprise-two-wheels-safer-than-four-o…
In research that may surprise off-road riding enthusiasts and safety experts, a Johns Hopkins team has found that crashes involving four-wheeled all-terrain vehicles are significantly more dangerous than crashes involving two-wheeled off-road motorcycles, such as those used in extreme sports such as Motocross.
The research, presented Oct. 6 at the American College of Surgeons’ 2010 Clinical Congress in Washington, D.C., found that victims of ATV crashes were 50 percent more likely to die of their injuries than similarly injured victims of off-road motorcycle crashes. ATV victims also were 55 percent more likely than injured motorcyclists to be admitted to a hospital’s intensive-care unit, and 42 percent more likely to be placed on a ventilator.
“There’s a belief that four wheels must be safer than two,” said Cassandra Villegas, a research fellow at the Johns Hopkins Center for Surgery Trials and Outcomes, “but we found the opposite. People involved in ATV crashes are more likely to die or suffer serious trauma.”
The growing popularity of off-road vehicles in the United States has led to a steep rise in the number of injuries resulting from their use. In 2000, Villegas said, there were 92,200 injuries involving ATVs or off-road motorcycles; in 2007, the last year for which data is available, there were 150,900. But little rigorous research has been done to determine which vehicles may be riskier than others.
ATVs and off-road motorcycles are designed for recreational use and typically are ridden on trails, sand dunes and other rough terrain.
In the first study to compare the severity of injuries sustained by ATV versus off-road motorcycle riders, Villegas and senior author Adil H. Haider, an assistant professor of surgery at Johns Hopkins, reviewed data on nearly 60,000 patients who suffered an injury after a crash involving one of the vehicles between 2002 and 2006.
The researchers say they don’t know why ATV crashes lead to greater injury and mortality, noting that they cannot trace the differences solely to helmet use, even though 60 percent of motorcyclists were wearing helmets as compared to 30 percent of those in ATV crashes. Even when both types of riders had been wearing helmets, ATV riders experienced worse injuries and outcomes than motorcyclists. Only a few states have laws requiring the use of a helmet when riding an ATV, Villegas says, and while motorcycle helmet laws are also determined by states, many more have helmet-use laws for motorcycles.
The researchers say it’s possible that ATV riders wear less-protective clothing than off-road motorcyclists, sometimes little more than shorts and a T-shirt. Another contributing factor could be the significant weight of ATVs, which can cause severe crush injuries when they land atop victims and lead to a greater likelihood of internal organ or extremity damage, Villegas says.
Villegas says that these findings may allow parents, legislators, educators and those in the ATV industry to make better decisions about the use of the off-road vehicles. She also says that studies such as these could help ATV manufacturers design and implement increased safety technology in ATVs, similar to how automobile manufacturers have used research to make safer cars and trucks.
Johns Hopkins researchers Stephen M. Bowman, Eric B. Schneider, Elliott R. Haut, Kent A. Stevens and David T. Efron contributed to this study.
They were filming everything......where is the footage of her loosing control and being at fault?
I am sure I am going to receive a STFU noob for this.
I would like to have sympathy for the ATV community- but the fact is the vast majority of them don't follow the rules. I think the rednecks take pride in putting their kids on giant ATVs. They ride without helmets. They drink and ride. They ride on the road. They ride where they aren't supposed to ride. The number of ATV riders that wear proper gear, ride in approved areas, and ride safely--- is a small percentage.
It's not a culture like motocross, where the equipment is part of the culture, and it's more organized. Most ATV riders I see act like idiots...sorry, it's what I have seen in 30 years of riding.
Kid broke his back in that news piece, thankfully no paralysis, but that didn't look good, and the likely reason was the kid hit a tree....the trees came right to the track edge.
I have said it before and I will say it again, and it will again fall on deaf ears, that unless the industry starts policing itself, the government eventually will.
They will do to motocross what they've done to ATV's where they will legally limit engine size based on age, where you will have laws saying that a rider under 12 yrs old cannot ride anything larger than 70cc, a rider between 12-15 is only allowed to rider up to 90cc and 16-18 yr old's only allowed on 125cc
This is where we are headed. ...and before any of you say it, THIS IS NOT A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THING, because all sides play the "we have to protect the children" card...
This industry has to do something in regards to standardizing track designs, there is no excuse for an amateur track to have a 80+ foot jump....double, triple or table, track widths need to be standardized and more.
We need to regulate ourselves or the government WILL start regulating us.
Wait until 20/20 or 60 Minutes does a story on motocross and talk about the HP of a Cobra underneath a 5 or 6 yr old and how far they jump (some farther than Evel Knievel did) and how many kids in our sport are not only sustaining serious injuries, but how many have become paralyzed....I think every one of us reading this can rattle off AT MINIMUM five (5) amateur riders who've become paralyzed over the last few years.
This industry is afraid to regulate itself for fear that setting standards will open the door for lawyers...."If we say no jump can be longer than 80', we'll now have lawyers standing trackside with tape measures"....this is the defense of why the industry won't do it!
FEAR!!
They're more afraid of the personal injury attorney than they are of a full crackdown by the Federal or State Governments...."if we close our eyes and hide, hopefully no one will notice"....this is the industry position.
Mark my words, at some point in our lives, motocross as we know it will come under attack and WILL CHANGE, and then you'll really be talking about "the good old days"
This isn't a party issue people, this is an industry issue
and yeah, go ahead, send on your pissed off emails, won't be the first time I've gotten them because I speak the truth and refuse to hide it in regards to self-regulation
There are other industry associations.
Maybe a new association/council needs to be formed solely for this purpose
But would you prefer the Feds or State Governments do it?
Excuses are easy, solutions are hard
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