Another (better) View of James' Crash

captmoto
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6/3/2012 11:25am
Tim507 wrote:
The processing skills of a professional racer are extraordinary! That moran did not cause the crash period. If JS was distracted then his mind was not...
The processing skills of a professional racer are extraordinary! That moran did not cause the crash period. If JS was distracted then his mind was not on his profession.
What the moran did was unsafe and needs to be roped in for the overall safety of all.
I do believe that JS is an awesome talent……and a quick thinker when it comes to damage control.
Certainly hope he is back next weekend


PS: Someone please send a monster girl my waySmile
This is kind of what I was thinking. I think things that scare most of us are in and out of a pros mind and gone while most of us are still swapping, skidding and floundering. I think he just cross rutted in the slop. It happens. It's just too bad he got dinged and couldn't get back up and charge through the pack.
6/3/2012 11:27am
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the...
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the inside while he is in the air and then straightens out to go to the outside once he lands because of the guy. Even better, look at what Dungey does behind him and what line he was going to take before James even crashed. It seems pretty clear to me Dungey was dedicated to go to the inside. So was James. Having to change your line and then missing the rut. Seems pretty clear to me.
Exactly!
jeffro503
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6/3/2012 11:34am
what about dungeys perspective? he didnt even see the track crosser... so he is lookin ahead and sees james wad it up thinking it was all...
what about dungeys perspective?

he didnt even see the track crosser...

so he is lookin ahead and sees james wad it up thinking it was all on his own...

not really a big point to discuss but funny how for that whole moto he had no idea that there was a distraction that may have played a part.

He was probably thinking "we'll there it is, wondered how much longer before he wadded it up..."
jeffro503 wrote:
On that point.......I wonder why RD didn't wreck from " The shock factor " because Stewart was laying in the middle of the track? Or what...
On that point.......I wonder why RD didn't wreck from " The shock factor " because Stewart was laying in the middle of the track? Or what about " The shock factor " the next 20 friggin' guys had when they went around James as well.

Fuggin' "Shock factor ".......this is priceless.
ns503 wrote:
The thing is though that they're used to seeing & dealing with guys down on the track. They know that either the guy down is going...
The thing is though that they're used to seeing & dealing with guys down on the track. They know that either the guy down is going nowhere, or knows how to react & conduct himself when he goes down. Some random dude walking across the track who is not supposed to be there could trip & fall, panic & run back where he came from, freeze, run in front of him, or who knows what else. I think he'd think he'd need to give him a way wider berth than simply another rider down.
Good points man....and I agree totally. And it's something that needs to be looked at in those very few really important seconds. Look at it this way though......James lands off the jump , with the throttle pinned ( Not on the brakes or with the gas off ).....proceeds down the track for another 100' before he wrecks.

James was still upright , on the gas and moving forward when he passed that guy AND was in his line of choice ( the same line he had been using all day ). That front end came out of the ruts and started drifting across the tops of all of them and he never let off. It looks like he fought that front wheel for a good 75' or so before it finally washed out.

In a panic mode.......why would you keep the throttle pinned? He wasn't forced into an unfamiliar line or anything......he just made a mistake.
Chili
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6/3/2012 11:35am
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the...
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the inside while he is in the air and then straightens out to go to the outside once he lands because of the guy. Even better, look at what Dungey does behind him and what line he was going to take before James even crashed. It seems pretty clear to me Dungey was dedicated to go to the inside. So was James. Having to change your line and then missing the rut. Seems pretty clear to me.
Exactly!
I'm not sure what video you two and WhKnuckle were watching yesterday but I've watched that and the helmet camera repeatedly and I can not see where James makes any effort or alters his line choice at any point. For the record I think the guy was likely a distraction which may have led to the end result but I still don't see any change to his line choices. He was committed to that line long before he saw the track crosser.

The Shop

stillwelding
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6/3/2012 11:36am
GuyB wrote:
That's about as good a look as you'll get. Okay, for the record, I'd crossed the track a lap earlier, and was shooting here, along with...
That's about as good a look as you'll get.

Okay, for the record, I'd crossed the track a lap earlier, and was shooting here, along with Jake Klingensmith, who shoots for Rockstar and Yoshimura, among others.



You don't get this shot without crossing the track.

Was that line the one he was normally taking through that section?
jeffro503
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6/3/2012 11:39am
Man....I'm wasting my sunday sitting debating this wreck online.

I think there are points to be made on both sides here. I just posted my opinion. You guys have the right to post yours as well.

I'll just bow out and say that I'm bummed just like everyone else is that James went down. He was making this season really interesting and really fun to watch. I hope like hell we see him at the next round!
Hut
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6/3/2012 11:42am
I agree with your observations here but the powers that be should use this as a good time to review their policies and practices for track side workers and make corrections where needed.
Chili
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6/3/2012 11:59am
So I was curious about the line choice and just went back and watched the first few laps of the moto to see if I missed something. Lap one James is basically forced to the inside due to traffic, lap 2 and 3 he takes the same line he crashed on and lap 4 he crashes.
6/3/2012 12:02pm
jamma10 wrote:
Among others, FaceDismembered and Kiteboarder (yesterday) speaketh the truth.
Also lets not forget that the GoPro is on top of James' helmet a good 6-8 inches above his REAL line of sight. He saw the spectator AFTER the GoPro sees it technically which means the spectator was even CLOSER to being off the track by the time James actually sees it. That does 2 things though. It makes his reaction to it a little more "sudden" but at the same time the guy is even farther from hitting him.
zippy895
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6/3/2012 12:03pm
ok shut up to all the guys here that says the guy made js7 change up his race line after the jump!
gsxrcr28
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6/3/2012 12:52pm
I didn't read this entire thread but I did see that some people think that wasn't enough to cause James to get distracted, cross rut and crash. The only thing I can think of is they are looking at it at the speed they ride a track, and yes probably at all of our speeds it would not have been a big deal. The very top guys are going so fast that the track becomes much smaller than most of us can imagine. If it had been a down rider or bike (yes there would have been flags) James would of at least known what was going on. The guy has had things thrown at him on the track, someone tweet his mom that they cant wait to see him break his neck, his dad spit on, and all kinds of things yelled at him. Who knows what he was thinking the guy was going to do? It is slightly similar to when RV jumped on the red light or flashing lights, whatever it was, people wanted to crucify him for it, but until any of us have circulated the track at these top guys speed we literally have no idea what it is like or how fast things happen.
jpracer931
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6/3/2012 12:58pm
so let me see here,James goes off a jump,a,guy is 3/4 across the track,JS lands and gasses it into the corne,chooses a bad rut,gets wheel hop and crashes and it is the guy crossing the tracks fault,who by the way was almost totally across the track when JS passes him,The funniest part about this is some of you are the same guys who were bashing him during supercross
6/3/2012 12:59pm
zippy895 wrote:
ok shut up to all the guys here that says the guy made js7 change up his race line after the jump!
This is sorta' in the right direction...but I am still waiting for a "MY bad, I made a mistake and I crashed" from him. Will that ever happen? He needs to listen to how KDub did it after his season ending crash in SX....

On a side note...I really hope I am wrong, but I have got a feeling that wrist is broken. Immediately after the crash he looks down at it--knows something is wrong. When he gets back to the rig and hands his bike off, he does not move it at all as he walked back to the truck and it is bent funny. I have jammed, sprained and broken my wrists. When they have been sprained or jammed I usually try to move it around or flex it a little bit to see how bad it is, when they have been broken I keep it perfectly still just like James was doing. He doesn't seem to be encouraged about it in this clip either. Again, I hope I am wrong...I was looking forward to watching him and RD5 duke it out all summer.

Chili:
"So I was curious about the line choice and just went back and watched the first few laps of the moto to see if I missed something. Lap one James is basically forced to the inside due to traffic, lap 2 and 3 he takes the same line he crashed on and lap 4 he crashes."

I did the same thing last night and I saw exactly what you saw. Using that outside line helped him stretch his lead in that section on the 2nd and 3rd lap. Re-watch it, he was in his preferred line when he crashed.
pilotdude
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6/3/2012 1:05pm
The guy crossing the track may have distracted him, but it was the wet, rutty, nasty section after that jump-which was claiming a lot of guys there-that got him. He's human, it happens. If he had not hurt his wrist, he most likely would have just gotten up and gotten back to probably 2nd if not first.

What amazes me here is how many people are saying they know definitively that the track crossing guy caused James to crash, or caused him to change lines and then crash because of the changing. You don't know, so why are you getting so attached to trying to prove you do? I've been racing since 1983 and I've had so many "close calls" close to me on the track I couldn't possibly count them, and I'll bet any amount of money most racers on here can say the same thing. Guys crashing next to/in front of me on the start, guys crashing next to me/in front of me on the whoops, guys crashing next to me/in front of me on doubles, on triples, in corners, etc. You are often intensely aware of it and are hoping that you don't get caught up in the yard sale, but at the same time is something you get used to as racer. It is a distraction but you learn to deal with that.

I can say the track crossing guy probably would not have caused me to crash, since I've had way closer calls than that, with things way more dangerous than someone mostly out of the way crossing the track. I can also say that when going through a deep, wet, rutted section like the one where JS7 crashed, you need all your concentration to get through it, so I can certainly see how the "crosser" could have contributed to JS7's get off.

In my opinion as a racer and as a fan, this is a case that is essentially impossible to prove, one way or the other. But since JS7 is involved, emotions seem to run higher than normal and a lot more heat than light is generated.

No matter how the crash occurred, what I wish had happened is that James had gotten up uninjured, continued to race, and got 2nd to Dungey. That way, the series could have continued without a cloud over it from his injury, and the 24-0 crowd would have had to shut their ridiculous frickin yappers. Everyone would have been winners.

Let's just hope he's able to continue to race, and that his injury is not overly serious. And would you guys who are trying to prove the unprovable, would you just give it a rest already?
slipdog
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6/3/2012 1:17pm
This is sorta' in the right direction...but I am still waiting for a "MY bad, I made a mistake and I crashed" from him. Will that...
This is sorta' in the right direction...but I am still waiting for a "MY bad, I made a mistake and I crashed" from him. Will that ever happen? He needs to listen to how KDub did it after his season ending crash in SX....

On a side note...I really hope I am wrong, but I have got a feeling that wrist is broken. Immediately after the crash he looks down at it--knows something is wrong. When he gets back to the rig and hands his bike off, he does not move it at all as he walked back to the truck and it is bent funny. I have jammed, sprained and broken my wrists. When they have been sprained or jammed I usually try to move it around or flex it a little bit to see how bad it is, when they have been broken I keep it perfectly still just like James was doing. He doesn't seem to be encouraged about it in this clip either. Again, I hope I am wrong...I was looking forward to watching him and RD5 duke it out all summer.

Chili:
"So I was curious about the line choice and just went back and watched the first few laps of the moto to see if I missed something. Lap one James is basically forced to the inside due to traffic, lap 2 and 3 he takes the same line he crashed on and lap 4 he crashes."

I did the same thing last night and I saw exactly what you saw. Using that outside line helped him stretch his lead in that section on the 2nd and 3rd lap. Re-watch it, he was in his preferred line when he crashed.
Unfortunately, I feel the same way about the injury. The fact he had to reach down with his left hand to pick up his bike after he failed to do so with both hands on the grips is exactly how I had to do it both times I broke mine.

Here's to hoping we're both wrong!
jeffro503
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6/3/2012 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2012 1:30pm
This is sorta' in the right direction...but I am still waiting for a "MY bad, I made a mistake and I crashed" from him. Will that...
This is sorta' in the right direction...but I am still waiting for a "MY bad, I made a mistake and I crashed" from him. Will that ever happen? He needs to listen to how KDub did it after his season ending crash in SX....

On a side note...I really hope I am wrong, but I have got a feeling that wrist is broken. Immediately after the crash he looks down at it--knows something is wrong. When he gets back to the rig and hands his bike off, he does not move it at all as he walked back to the truck and it is bent funny. I have jammed, sprained and broken my wrists. When they have been sprained or jammed I usually try to move it around or flex it a little bit to see how bad it is, when they have been broken I keep it perfectly still just like James was doing. He doesn't seem to be encouraged about it in this clip either. Again, I hope I am wrong...I was looking forward to watching him and RD5 duke it out all summer.

Chili:
"So I was curious about the line choice and just went back and watched the first few laps of the moto to see if I missed something. Lap one James is basically forced to the inside due to traffic, lap 2 and 3 he takes the same line he crashed on and lap 4 he crashes."

I did the same thing last night and I saw exactly what you saw. Using that outside line helped him stretch his lead in that section on the 2nd and 3rd lap. Re-watch it, he was in his preferred line when he crashed.
slipdog wrote:
Unfortunately, I feel the same way about the injury. The fact he had to reach down with his left hand to pick up his bike after...
Unfortunately, I feel the same way about the injury. The fact he had to reach down with his left hand to pick up his bike after he failed to do so with both hands on the grips is exactly how I had to do it both times I broke mine.

Here's to hoping we're both wrong!
I felt this same way when I saw it. I re-wound it a couple times to be sure. A buddy of mine here said he thought he was looking at the throttle and couldn't get the thing to turn......I said " No.....there is something wrong with his wrist / shoulder / arm ".

By the looks of the crash and how much dirt Stewart had on that side of his body......he took a hell of a hit. I really hope it isn't something that is going to take him out for the rest of the year. If so.....the rest of the outdoor races may just really suck. It'll be a good fight between 2nd and 10th........but the championship is pretty much going to be a run away.
rcm406
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6/3/2012 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2012 1:46pm
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the...
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the inside while he is in the air and then straightens out to go to the outside once he lands because of the guy. Even better, look at what Dungey does behind him and what line he was going to take before James even crashed. It seems pretty clear to me Dungey was dedicated to go to the inside. So was James. Having to change your line and then missing the rut. Seems pretty clear to me.
Exactly!
X3. This is exactly what I noticed right off the bat. Especially the dungey part. They were both jumping left to right to get the inside line on that sweeper. Also, look at the line choice of the next 3 riders that pass James while he is on the ground. That's right, they all take the very inside line and I'm sure James wanted to take that line as well!
mx 219
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6/3/2012 1:39pm
anyone know where to find the full speed GoPro camera of this??

What I just dont understand is if you are going to a line you havent used all day why would you go full throttle through there?
Falcon
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6/3/2012 1:39pm
At first I thought the "pedestrian on the track" argument didn't hold water at all. Now that I've seen that view, it is clear that James lost control long before he crashed, which may have been caused by choosing a different line than he wanted. Watch how he cross-ruts just after landing; that's what caused the crash. He just did not actually go down for another 100 feet or so (a testament to the guy's bike handling skills.) Whether the guy running across the track made it happen or not is up to conjecture. Clearly, it was the wrong time for that guy to start across.
RaceFace
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6/3/2012 1:50pm
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the...
I think the guy totally made James change his line while he was in the air. Look as James is getting ready to go to the inside while he is in the air and then straightens out to go to the outside once he lands because of the guy. Even better, look at what Dungey does behind him and what line he was going to take before James even crashed. It seems pretty clear to me Dungey was dedicated to go to the inside. So was James. Having to change your line and then missing the rut. Seems pretty clear to me.
Exactly!
rcm406 wrote:
X3. This is exactly what I noticed right off the bat. Especially the dungey part. They were both jumping left to right to get the inside...
X3. This is exactly what I noticed right off the bat. Especially the dungey part. They were both jumping left to right to get the inside line on that sweeper. Also, look at the line choice of the next 3 riders that pass James while he is on the ground. That's right, they all take the very inside line and I'm sure James wanted to take that line as well!
Nope, I saw it completely different. James did a backflip, and the camera guy was actually sprinkling rice holes on the track. Rewind it. Then there was a little kicker that pushed James' front tire a millimeter to the left and his rear tire a millimeter to the right. Then Emig drew a circle around the rice holes and said they caused the crash. No one caught it, but Erin Bates was right there when James got up and she asked him how he was feeling about the crash. You have to pause it at just the right spot.

Every time when it is James no one can agree on what is right freaking there in the video. It's right there, look!
6/3/2012 1:53pm
Falcon wrote:
At first I thought the "pedestrian on the track" argument didn't hold water at all. Now that I've seen that view, it is clear that James...
At first I thought the "pedestrian on the track" argument didn't hold water at all. Now that I've seen that view, it is clear that James lost control long before he crashed, which may have been caused by choosing a different line than he wanted. Watch how he cross-ruts just after landing; that's what caused the crash. He just did not actually go down for another 100 feet or so (a testament to the guy's bike handling skills.) Whether the guy running across the track made it happen or not is up to conjecture. Clearly, it was the wrong time for that guy to start across.
I agree.

The wreck really starts on the landing of the jump. At the speed he's going, I am sure he braced in mid-air or something and that threw his attenttion off for the landing. Slo-mo the landing and you can see clearly his problems start right on the landing.
Ever been jumping and "freeze" for a second because of something panicking you? It can really mess up your landing.
Just my two cents, but as fast as things happen at his speed, I think the track-crosser caused it. Doesn't really matter anyway.
FreshTopEnd
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6/3/2012 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2012 2:01pm
The problem is there are enough people who have staked their persona out here on criticizing Stewart for whatever reason ~ they like another rider, they don't like Stewart fans, whatever ~ that they're in a sick feedback loop. They're so fully caught up in maintaining that identity that they've been waiting for some incident to save face, al the more so when it's turned around with a little success, and there's no one way any of those people are going to be sensible or fair or deal with this issue apart from the shit talking little corner of the internet they've carved out for themselves.
sec114
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6/3/2012 2:03pm
zippy895 wrote:
[img]http://www.mywebpower.com/graphics/thumbs/funny_pictures/funny_blowjob_after_race.jpg[/img]
now thats 1 parent that gets into her kids racing there!! she could of just said "PB&J sandwich"!
firemedic301
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6/3/2012 2:05pm
Nobody crashed after being distracted by a motorcycle and a downed rider standing in the middle of the track after JS went down and THEY were riding at race pace also. Just sayin
firemedic301
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6/3/2012 2:08pm
In the interview after the race James gained alot of respect in my book not totally blaming the guy for his crash.
6/3/2012 2:10pm
He chose that line lap 2,3 and 4 (crash lap) You can't criticize line choice when it turns bad. Wharton almost went OTB because of it on the inside. Dozens of guys went down in the section because of it. I've done it at Whitney. Broke a Shoei helmet from hitting a hole that wasn't in my line the lap before. Shit happens. The hole surprised me but I don't blame it. At least James had a head start. I was on my head before I knew what happened. Just unfortunate it happened to a top guy... again.
RaceFace
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6/3/2012 2:36pm
Nobody crashed after being distracted by a motorcycle and a downed rider standing in the middle of the track after JS went down and THEY were...
Nobody crashed after being distracted by a motorcycle and a downed rider standing in the middle of the track after JS went down and THEY were riding at race pace also. Just sayin
Yeah, that is because they slowed down when presented with something to deal with, the yellow flags and red cross flags. While I think it is ridiculous that James had to deal with this clown crossing the track, once he lands does he at all let up in any way as if acknowledging distraction? It is plausible to say that he could have got off the throttle a hair to regroup if he was indeed distracted to the point of crashing. He ripped right into the rut as if the guy wasn't seen though. That's the only thing that has me leaning towards him not being distracted, but still there should not have been any clowns in the track.
Paul333
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6/3/2012 2:45pm
mattbmx63 wrote:
Might have distracted him, but going into the ruts his back end kicks out and that seems to be where it all goes wrong
That's what I see as well.

I'm not ready to blame the whole thing on the guy who crossed the track.

Anybody who has ever raced a moto has seen that.
Devil1nNj
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6/3/2012 2:58pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I didn't read this entire thread but I did see that some people think that wasn't enough to cause James to get distracted, cross rut and...
I didn't read this entire thread but I did see that some people think that wasn't enough to cause James to get distracted, cross rut and crash. The only thing I can think of is they are looking at it at the speed they ride a track, and yes probably at all of our speeds it would not have been a big deal. The very top guys are going so fast that the track becomes much smaller than most of us can imagine. If it had been a down rider or bike (yes there would have been flags) James would of at least known what was going on. The guy has had things thrown at him on the track, someone tweet his mom that they cant wait to see him break his neck, his dad spit on, and all kinds of things yelled at him. Who knows what he was thinking the guy was going to do? It is slightly similar to when RV jumped on the red light or flashing lights, whatever it was, people wanted to crucify him for it, but until any of us have circulated the track at these top guys speed we literally have no idea what it is like or how fast things happen.
We can't know either way what happened, but, this is exactly what I've thought since I saw the go pro. When we're taught to race we're taught to look as far ahead as possible. Look through turns etc... At his pace it was a distraction. For people saying RD seeing him go down is the same thing, No its not IMO. RD is looking as far ahead as he can, and he sees the guy at his pace going down. Think about it in the terms of driving a car. You see the car in front of you have issues, you react and don't have the same issues. Especially when you have 2 seconds or so to react.

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