Another 2-stroke vs 4-stroke thread

indy_maico
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4/9/2010 6:49am Edited Date/Time 2/2/2012 4:02pm
I know, I know, just what this place needs. But, I couldn't resist!

Thanks to
http://twostrokemotocross.com/
for this one



Handicapping and the Four-Stroke
By JohnNicholas • on April 7, 2010

Over the past few years the media seems to have coined new terms to apply to two-stroke motocross machines. When the two-stroke is mentioned words like vintage and nostalgic seem to pop up. Everywhere from message board users to Ralph Sheehan and Jeff Emig on Speed Channel seem to have gotten the “memo”.

How can this be?

Well, it appears to be a slight-of-hand marketing trick. A way to discredit the two-stroke further. An easy way to make it look like if you care about two-strokes, you live in the past. It’s a simple and effective way to bulldoze the two-stroke fan and to ignore reality.

So what can I do about it?

Simple, use the word “handicap” every-time you speak about four-strokes in motocross.

What exactly is a handicap and why is it used?

According to Wikipedia;

Handicapping, in sport and games, is the practice of assigning advantage through scoring compensation or other advantage given to different contestants to equalize the chances of winning. The word also applies to the various methods by which the advantage is calculated. In principle, a more experienced player is disadvantaged in order to make it possible for a less experienced player to participate in the game or sport whilst maintaining fairness. Handicapping also refers to the various methods by which spectators can predict and quantify the results of a sporting match. [1]

Obviously the four-stroke required an enormous handicap in order to be competitive with the lighter, faster two-stroke motocross machines. The current FIM and AMA rules allow the 250cc four-stroke a DOUBLE displacement advantage over the 125cc two-stroke and the 450cc four-stroke has an 85% displacement advantage over the 250cc two-stroke.

Is it better or is it just bigger? Ummmm… it’s just bigger!!

When the rule was first introduced, it actually worked decently, the bigger four-strokes were almost equal to the two-strokes. But as racers, engineers and tuners learned to extract additional horsepower from the four-stroke and the rule changes continued to take away every advantage from the two-stroke, it turned motocross into a four-stroke only sport.

Yet every single time the fact of the displacement advantage is brought up to a four-stroke proponent, it is promptly ignored, sidestepped or whined about. Usually a litany of how “unfair” it would be for the machines to be of equal displacement soon follows.

As has been written on this site before, for over 72 years the rules of motocross have been displacement based. The engine type was decided by which machine was faster. In the earliest years of motocross the four-stroke ruled. As the technology advanced the two-stroke came to prominence and began to be the machine of choice. The change came about because technology advanced for the two-strokes and the four-stroke were unable to keep up. A choice made from competition alone.

Unfortunately Pro Racing rules in AMA SX/MX events and FIM MX GP’s allow a huge handicap for the four-stroke, which makes it difficult if not impossible for two-stroke machines to compete. Two-stroke fans are told to stop living in the past and to get over it, the four-stroke is the best machine for motocross.

The only way to battle this absurd rule is to knock away at the supposed superiority of the four-stroke, by pointing out the blatantly obvious. Four-strokes require a HANDICAP to be competitive.

Just think of all the fun you can have by sharing this fact with your four-stroke brethren..

When they ask you, “Why are you riding that old technology two-stroke?” You can casually reply, “Why do you need such a huge handicap to compete? “

At every opportunity, mention that the four-strokes are handicapped. There is no need to do this in a mean or combative way, in fact it will work much better if you say it casually, in the course of conversation (read bench racing) It will become a splinter in the mind of the four-stroke “revolutionaries” and start to wear on them after a while.

Then instead of thinking they are on a superior, technologically advanced machines, they will discover that they are on old technology with pretty graphics. A case of the emperor’s new clothes. The only way they can compete is to “cheat”.

So just add the word “handicap” to your vocabulary. It’s simple and easy. But even better than that it’s fun to do!

Enjoy the races!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicapping

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/04/handicapping-and-the-four-stroke/


|
4/9/2010 11:02pm
Woohoo Wow A literary masterpiece of science and original thought. One of the top three most thought provoking works in the history of man!

1: Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica
2: On the Origin of Species
3: Handicapping and the Four-Stroke




Where are the keys to the Dumbgeon?
OW38B
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4/9/2010 11:48pm
A few on here are gonna meltdown after reading this......
4/10/2010 12:03am
Hey the more 2 stroke threads the better I say!

Even if it does piss off a few of the 4 stroke bois, there're all just a lil self conscious about the handicap they run! lol



The Shop

4/10/2010 12:32am
2 stroke vs 4 stroke = 2 stroke is way more better.
Tiki
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4/10/2010 5:24am
Indy,
I am disappointed in you. Not for the fact you post the handicapping stuff, but here you call out to the subject of two stroke vs four stroke and haven't even the courtesy to post a photo of some of the greatest two stroke motocross bikes ever, its even your namesake. Whaddajackass.

I will do it for you.

OW38B
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4/10/2010 9:34am
scotttydog wrote:
Hey the more 2 stroke threads the better I say! Even if it does piss off a few of the 4 stroke bois, there're all just...
Hey the more 2 stroke threads the better I say!

Even if it does piss off a few of the 4 stroke bois, there're all just a lil self conscious about the handicap they run! lol



There have been a few on here that have shown a bit of tension about the subject. Not sure why that is the case.

I used to think that MXSports was the "all and powerful wizard of OZ" and was the best thing to happen to Pro MX.

Now It seems it's "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" Shocked
BLAHBLAH
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4/10/2010 10:47am
Handicapping? Why don't we make professional motocross all run stock motorcycles? Maybe this will finally end the argument of 2 vs. 4 strokes... It won't matter, everyone will be on the same bike no advantage no handicap!
4/10/2010 2:04pm
The swing back to the 2 strokes is coming from the grassroots riders not the OEM marketing teams so the change over will be slow and frustrating!

Well I'm looking forward to when this 4 stroke fad is done and dusted
mxjef
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4/10/2010 2:21pm
I made the switch back to the 2-stroke 4 years ago, I'm starting to notice more people making the switch back recently.

HuskyEd
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4/10/2010 2:30pm
Seems there is one Euro mfgr. ready to take on the 450, rules permitting.








Model:MX 300
Engine: TM RACING
Bore and Stroke: 72 x 72
Displacement: 294 cc.
Compression ratio: N.D.
Horse power: N.D.
Aspirazione: V-Force Reed valve
Carburettor: Keihin PWM 38
Fuel: Benzina senza poiombo / olio 3,5%
Ignition: Kokusan CDI Electronic with variable advance with two selectable maps through handlebar switch
Clutch: Multiple-disk in oil bath with hydraulic control
Gear: 5 gear
Cooler System: Coolant liquid with pump
Frame: Perimetral aluminium section
Front fork: Marzocchi USD
Rear shock: Sachs Boge (optional Ohlins )
Front tyre: 100/90 X21
Front tyre: 110/90 X 19
Front brake: Braking wave Disk 270 mm. With Nissin pump and Brembo caliper
Rear brake: Braking wave Disk 245 mm. With Nissin pump and caliper
Tank: Plastic 8,7 litres






nytsmaC
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2/2/2012 1:40pm
Holy 2 years ago batman!
JJO741
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2/2/2012 1:42pm
I own a 125 and a 250f. No one can dislike me now.
2/2/2012 1:47pm
200hp from 500cc in a 250lbs wet package.

When a 4 stroke does that, I'll eat my own fucking liver.



Factoryphoto
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2/2/2012 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2012 1:55pm
Just finished today.. 12' 300 xc converted to a 300 sx


peelout
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2/2/2012 1:58pm
so fucking RAD!

i'm going in tomorrow to hopefully pick up my '12 KTM 250, if i bring her home i'll post the pics

jtomasik
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2/2/2012 2:00pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Holy 2 years ago batman!
Yeah, I didn't want to pollute that other thread any more than I already did (the guy has a nice bike...), and I thought of resurrecting that old article so some guys, who have their facts bass-ackwards, get a better idea of fact.
GrapeApe
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2/2/2012 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2012 2:06pm
Just finished today.. 12' 300 xc converted to a 300 sx [img]http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6604/left300.jpg[/img] [img]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8088/front300y.jpg[/img] [img]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7493/rightside300.jpg[/img]
Just finished today.. 12' 300 xc converted to a 300 sx


That is one of the best looking bikes I have seen posted on this site! I typically prefer black rimmage, but the silver seems to work on that bike. Mind if I take it for a spin?

Also, you should start a thread of your own for this. A lot of people would be interested in seeing the conversion, but not necessarily interested in "another 2 vs. 4 thread" if you know what I mean.
GrapeApe
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2/2/2012 2:03pm
peelout wrote:
so fucking RAD! i'm going in tomorrow to hopefully pick up my '12 KTM 250, if i bring her home i'll post the pics [img]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8088/front300y.jpg[/img]
so fucking RAD!

i'm going in tomorrow to hopefully pick up my '12 KTM 250, if i bring her home i'll post the pics

Do it, do it.
justpinit
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2/2/2012 2:06pm
That KTM is nice!!! WoohooWoohoo

2/2/2012 2:11pm
GrapeApe wrote:
That is one of the best looking bikes I have seen posted on this site! I typically prefer black rimmage, but the silver seems to work...
That is one of the best looking bikes I have seen posted on this site! I typically prefer black rimmage, but the silver seems to work on that bike. Mind if I take it for a spin?

Also, you should start a thread of your own for this. A lot of people would be interested in seeing the conversion, but not necessarily interested in "another 2 vs. 4 thread" if you know what I mean.
he submitted his black rim permission slip to DirtyFilter75, just waiting to hear back on that before he gets them.
burn1986
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2/2/2012 2:18pm
jtomasik wrote:
Since it's apparent some of these guys know little about smokers (like the comment that a four stroke makes more torque...lol), I ran across this: http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106...
Since it's apparent some of these guys know little about smokers (like the comment that a four stroke makes more torque...lol), I ran across this:

http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106
Too good! Amazing article. Good piece of history.
EastFlorida
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2/2/2012 4:02pm
Excellent post and references. Too bad the grass roots efforts doesn't have the power it did in the past...

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