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Production air forks have taken a beating Mike Tyson would be proud of, BUT that's production. It's no secret the factory units work well and are preferred by some pro's. In the mountain bike world spring forks died off ages ago. Any knowledgeable industry/tech insiders think we will see air forks come full circle in a new design for production?
I don't believe a factory air fork is some magical thing that can't be produced for consumers at a reasonable cost level. Clearly WP has a decent production air fork; the AER gets good reviews and it's probably awful compared to a factory KYB or Showa air. If Showa can mimic a factory A kit fork ('17 CRF 450), why not an air version?
I don't believe a factory air fork is some magical thing that can't be produced for consumers at a reasonable cost level. Clearly WP has a decent production air fork; the AER gets good reviews and it's probably awful compared to a factory KYB or Showa air. If Showa can mimic a factory A kit fork ('17 CRF 450), why not an air version?
Yes anyone could make a factory air fork on a production bike...but I bet bike cost would rise.
More bikes end up offroad then on the track and many don't like to check their stuff as part of their maintenance plan. The risk of failure (though slim) can be a real PITA too when your back in the weeds...
2.) Public Opinion.
When a certain rider told the public the 1st gen backwards motor YZF turned like a dump truck, people wouldn't buy them. We're they 'that' bad, no (and now you can buy them for pennies on the dollar) but people took that and have stayed with it. When people made up their mind about AFs, it was/is near impossible to change public opinion, regardless of how good they might be. Yes, the AER forks are a HUGE improvement, but look what they replaced (4cs). Arguably some of the worst fork on the market...
Can the manufacturers do it, sure, probably would be easy. But why? And what might work for you isn't what might work for me.
I would like to see manufacturers offer options from the factory. As and example, KTM would offer you a baseline model with silver wheels and cheap spring forks, 5spd, no estart etc etc. And you can buy a updated package, similar to what you see at a car dealership. But one can dream...
The Shop
A complex air fork is definitely a turnoff for the consumer. Nobody wants to dick around with 3 air chambers. Nope. If it's just air replacing the spring, pretty easy to get some good "go to" settings and I would much rather ride on air than a spring. Springs make me think of pogo sticks.
For most guys a spring fork is easy. You send it out and get a good base. From there you might turn a clicker here and there and adjust the sag a few mm depending on the track.
Hell I would say that most non moto guys never even touch the clickers.
When someone gets an air fork that has 3 air chambers along with clickers they're easily confused on what to adjust and where to start. Some of the new stuff with a single chamber might be a lot easier but people still don't want to mess with checking the air every time they take the bike out or in the case of moto every time before they go out on the track.
People need to stop comparing "spring forks" vs "air forks". There are so many different systems and models that are very different. Take a look at the WP 4cs and Showa SFF spring forks. Both are for most people crap. You can't put those two forks in the same category as the KYB SSS. Same goes for the different air forks, some are crap and some are good(KYB PSF1 & WP AER).
The initial production air stuff has had a serious failure to launch. KYB and Showa clearly didn't give the consumer their best and now have a bad rep. We KNOW it can be good, great, even superior to springs.
For those that want to claim so and so rider went back to springs...well did they go back to air again? I can't keep up, but from what I gather there's lots of back and forth and what the pros do doesn't really matter considering it's so mental at that level.
The positives of air are incredible plush initial and great bottoming. Also weight savings. It's that mid-stroke that is an issue with production. BTW there is a WP AER cone valve now. I see springs going the way of the Dodo bird, but when will we get the good stuff?!
But would you agree with me on that i don't like to put all air forks in one category and all spring forks in one category?
Pit Row
So ML512 do you think or have any insight if Showa and KYB will come full circle with air production units? I mean if KYB's PSF1 was in reality a good fork, just needs tuned properly, then...where's the problem?! The whole thing is strange.
The fork is available in kit form from Enzo or Technical Touch.
In Showa's case, I see them just sticking to spring.
WP seems to be fine going forward on air...and KYB is questionable.
Nobody changes their springs at the track/trail to suit the track/trail conditions, right? So why are people adjusting air pressures to suit the track/trail conditions?
In both spring and air forks, the clickers and sag are what is adjusted to suit the track/trail conditions.
Anyway..once I learned that little bit of information...I've had no issue AT ALL with my air forks...and I really like how they perform.
I struggled with my air forks until TBT Suspension informed me that the air replaces the spring..
Air has been a secondary spring in forks forever! It's in the forks nature to have an air spring since the oil level determined the effect of that air.
If you take out the coil, what did you think they replaced it with?
Its not real rocket science. The problem with spring forks is slow leakage and most just want to go ride.
If your tires are a pound or two hard or soft, its no big deal, and you have a larger volume, so a little seepage has a lesser effect.
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On a fork, a little bit of loss and its a totally different fork setting.
I hate air suspension. Not because it doesn't work, but because its not consistent without constant maintainance. I have way too many machines (12)to maintain as it is on a regular basis, not counting 7 vehicles.
Set it and forget it(for the most part) is nice.
I dumped 4 Fox Evol 3s for a full set of Walker Evans, once set, I haven't touched them all year.
He's a self proclaimed know it all. That's the difference.
That response is like Jody saying he doesn't understand the effect of adding 1 tooth.
Savvy?
I tried air forks on my CRF450r for a few rides and hated them. I went to spring forks and couldn't be happier. I do have a decent understanding of suspension but simply don't see the need for so many adjustments for the average rider. It just complicates things. Set my spring rate and let me adjust comp & rebound for the track conditions and ride..............
Mortgages? Sure...that's what I do for a living (like you...used too, right?)...
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