Add Superchargers/Tubos to MX/SX!

Dtat720 wrote:

You obviously have zero grasp on tuning forced induction engines. Keep paying someone else to do it, they understand whats going on. You dont.

BobPA wrote:

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing...

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing 1000hp?

Dtat720 wrote:

You obviously have zero grasp on tuning forced induction engines. Keep paying someone else to do it, they understand whats going on. You dont.

BobPA wrote:

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing...

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing 1000hp?

Skidaddle wrote:

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion...

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion and piston temps is with coatings.

And that only lasts for short bursts like drag racing. Not sustained. I watch 1 thing mostly and the 2nd now and then. EGT's and water temp.

BobPA wrote:

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing...

So just to get this straight. You are telling me an engine producing 500 hp will create the same amount of heat as same engine producing 1000hp?

Skidaddle wrote:

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion...

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion and piston temps is with coatings.

And that only lasts for short bursts like drag racing. Not sustained. I watch 1 thing mostly and the 2nd now and then. EGT's and water temp.

Dtat720 wrote:

Exactly. Pistons melt from heat. Increased cylinder temps will melt a piston every time. Or in Bobs case, rotors and apex seals.

Skidaddle wrote:

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion...

Internally it should be similar, Volume wise no, but Aluminum pistons melt the same regardless of size or HP. The only way to run higher combustion and piston temps is with coatings.

And that only lasts for short bursts like drag racing. Not sustained. I watch 1 thing mostly and the 2nd now and then. EGT's and water temp.

Dtat720 wrote:

Exactly. Pistons melt from heat. Increased cylinder temps will melt a piston every time. Or in Bobs case, rotors and apex seals.

BobPA wrote:

I can no longer argue because both of you cannot grasp these simple internal combustion engine concepts. But I'll try. Piston heat, EGT's, tunes, ceramic coated...

I can no longer argue because both of you cannot grasp these simple internal combustion engine concepts. But I'll try.

Piston heat, EGT's, tunes, ceramic coated dildos, boost, all have nothing to do with the fact an engine is going to produce more waste energy (HEAT) with the more power it makes. One final try on my end.

Example

5.0 liter V8 produces 200 HP in Naturally Aspirated form

SAME IDENTICAL engine with a turbo now makes 400 hp, an increase of 100% power. Now you would agree that this would require a much larger fuel flow rate correct?

But, in your fairy tale world the engine making 200hp would take the same amount of fuel/energy to produce 400 hp with a turbo. Thus in your imaginationland the addition of the turbo makes the engine 100% more EFFECIENT (which is not possible). What I mean by this is the engine is making 200hp whilst not requiring anymore fuel (energy).

But here in the real world the engine producing 400hp boosted would require more fuel to make this power, therefore it creates more energy, ergo more heat. The more fuel burning inside the engine the more heat it will produce overall. The most best engines are only 25% effecient. So 75% of the engines potential power is lost to heat or friction.

(0.75 x 400) > (0.75 x 200)

You understand?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#Gasoline_.28petrol.29_e…

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/sucp-1204-cooling-system-…

Dtat720 wrote:

Who said anything about not needing more fuel? Dude, you are putting words in peoples mouths now. YOU, it is completely obvious, have zero understanding of...

Who said anything about not needing more fuel? Dude, you are putting words in peoples mouths now. YOU, it is completely obvious, have zero understanding of how to TUNE a forced induction engine. Ive said multiple times exhaust heat, more power, etc. comprehension lacking? Do you know how an engine works? With forced induction? Cam overlap? Ignition timing? It sure seems like you dont!

gsxr6 wrote:

Don't forget the heat sink that is the piping, turbo itself, and intercooler, all leading to heat soak. I can buy that setup right the combustion...

Don't forget the heat sink that is the piping, turbo itself, and intercooler, all leading to heat soak. I can buy that setup right the combustion and exhaust temps are all in line. The cooling system is either working harder or is bigger. Twice the power is probably twice the waste heat in an identical engine. The turbo and it's piping all add to the amount of both stored heat in the metal, as well as radiated heat/ amount of surface area radiating the heat. Anyone who has ever opened the hood on a turbo car can notice how much radiating heat is increased. Everything under the hood of a turbo car gets hotter, whether the ex gas temp is the same as a na engine or not.

gsxr6 wrote:

Anyone who thinks adding a turbo doesn't make everything around it run hotter is out of touch with reality.

gsxr6 wrote:

Don't forget the heat sink that is the piping, turbo itself, and intercooler, all leading to heat soak. I can buy that setup right the combustion...

Don't forget the heat sink that is the piping, turbo itself, and intercooler, all leading to heat soak. I can buy that setup right the combustion and exhaust temps are all in line. The cooling system is either working harder or is bigger. Twice the power is probably twice the waste heat in an identical engine. The turbo and it's piping all add to the amount of both stored heat in the metal, as well as radiated heat/ amount of surface area radiating the heat. Anyone who has ever opened the hood on a turbo car can notice how much radiating heat is increased. Everything under the hood of a turbo car gets hotter, whether the ex gas temp is the same as a na engine or not.

BobPA wrote:

Thank you. I had a giant technical post made, but I knew it would not help. This guy cannot grasp that more horsepower creates more waste...

Thank you. I had a giant technical post made, but I knew it would not help. This guy cannot grasp that more horsepower creates more waste heat, turbo or not

Dtat720 wrote:

I can grasp it just fine. You cant comprehend what im saying because you have to be right. Even though overall, we are saying the same...

I can grasp it just fine. You cant comprehend what im saying because you have to be right. Even though overall, we are saying the same thing. The post got on the topic of engine temps increasing. I simply said, with a proper tune, since the bikes are already efi, temps wouldnt change. And they wont. If they did, the engine would blow. Intake temps increase under forced induction, yes. Thats a given. Nobody argued that. That doesnt increase engine temps, hot air burns the same as cool air. You get less volume with hot air. It doesnt burn any different temp wise. That was the topic. How it got off tangent, i dont know. But the bottom line is, the engine temps dont change. It will run at whatever temp range it is set up at, or it will blow up.

Dtat720 wrote:

Nobody disputed that. The topic was engine temps increasing. Not components, etc. engine temps. Engine temps dont increase without an unregulated cooling system or no cooling...

Nobody disputed that. The topic was engine temps increasing. Not components, etc. engine temps. Engine temps dont increase without an unregulated cooling system or no cooling system at all or pisspoor tuning. The engine will run its given temp range or it will blow. Plain and simple. What i said was, on an mx bike, a proper tune will keep it runnig the same as stock. We arent talking about 1,000hp ls engines, bob brought those in. The conversation was about 250 and 450 engines. Not street outlaws. Throw a turbo on a 450, remap it to compensate for the added air and fuel and it will run the same temp range as a stock bike. That cant be denied.

blusmbl wrote:

Bob is correct. More horsepower = more heat, there really is no way around this. The heat goes both into the exhaust and the cooling system...

Bob is correct. More horsepower = more heat, there really is no way around this. The heat goes both into the exhaust and the cooling system. You can change your exhaust temperature with both timing and air/fuel, but at some point the cooling system is no longer going to be adequate for the power being generated.