AMA Pro Racing Clarifies Blue Flag

curmudgeon
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7/28/2009 10:48am
If you're not in the lead you're not the show. Look for a 10 rider grid next year.
Eatmydirt03
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7/28/2009 10:53am
curmudgeon wrote:
If you're not in the lead you're not the show. Look for a 10 rider grid next year.
That guy was a complete moron. How he still has a job is stupid.
breck
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7/28/2009 11:01am
David Bailey said it best:

"There's a race going on and you're not part of it..."
txmxer
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7/28/2009 11:04am
so how about you clarify what you think the blue flag should mean or what you think they should do instead of the blue flag?

The Shop

jndmx
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7/28/2009 11:04am
I don't understand what exactly that "clarifies", it seems to say that they will decide what the flag means according to circumstance and then tell you later when you are being DQ'd.

Not trying to bash here but that is a very strange way to clarify your rules.
Void Main
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7/28/2009 11:14am
It also didn't say anything about this only being for lapped riders. Are they saying they can wave a blue flag on a person that is on the same lap as the person they are letting pass? And they can they still call it "racing"?
ZEDHED
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7/28/2009 11:17am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2010 7:48am
Ozzy
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7/28/2009 11:23am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:11am
Come on people it's commonsense.
At least it is to me.
All racers know the situations while racing.
Sure your racing, moving forwards, trying to survive , whatever
& whoever you are, & the same goes for being in the way or a roadblock
for some. That's really what it's for. If your being lapped, or if your floundering,
it's a way to keep it real & keep it safe.
I'm on the AMA side here, why? cause all to many do not pay any mind to that
flag in question, so reminding the mindless is job 1 & a given.
Rules are to be followed across the board, regardless of who you are.
If some keep skating such, then a stern reminder is key!
Gotta keep it safe, exciting & flowing.
If the BLUE is thrown at you, there should be NO question at all as to
your next move, none!Shocked
Dave O.Wink
7/28/2009 12:45pm
Looks pretty simple to me, if you are getting lapped, get the heck out of the way. Hold your line, but don't race for the position, let the leaders pass.
Tiki
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Fantasy
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7/28/2009 1:11pm
My $40 at work. You STFU. You make me think I am throwing my money away.
Ing
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7/28/2009 1:13pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Looks pretty simple to me, if you are getting lapped, get the heck out of the way. Hold your line, but don't race for the position...
Looks pretty simple to me, if you are getting lapped, get the heck out of the way. Hold your line, but don't race for the position, let the leaders pass.
OK, how do you hold your line and get out of the way at the same time?
SEEMEFIRST
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7/28/2009 1:16pm
Void Main wrote:
It also didn't say anything about this only being for lapped riders. Are they saying they can wave a blue flag on a person that is...
It also didn't say anything about this only being for lapped riders. Are they saying they can wave a blue flag on a person that is on the same lap as the person they are letting pass? And they can they still call it "racing"?
The overtaking of a slower rider by a faster rider where there is no position change is a situation that must be approached from a safety standpoint, and the intent of the rule regarding the use of the blue flag is to make a potentially dangerous situation less so. Section 7.14a.vii dictates the usage of and expected response to blue flags:

Not defending AMA, but this defines it, does it not?
Sandy
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7/28/2009 1:16pm
We have been trying a few of these nationals and have come to the conclusion that the only way to fix this problem is get fast enough that you wont get lapped.
leighracer
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7/28/2009 1:18pm
Does the blue flag rule apply to the Buells? Just checking since evidently the homologation rules are different for themSmile
Ing
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7/28/2009 1:21pm
leighracer wrote:
Does the blue flag rule apply to the Buells? Just checking since evidently the homologation rules are different for themSmile
Nope, Buells have their own rule book. Good point. AMA roadracing is a joke.
Dsigner
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7/28/2009 2:10pm
leighracer wrote:
Does the blue flag rule apply to the Buells? Just checking since evidently the homologation rules are different for themSmile
Ing wrote:
Nope, Buells have their own rule book. Good point. AMA roadracing is a joke.
HA!!!!!
JPT
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7/28/2009 2:12pm
Not supporting the AMA or Ludington on this one, but when you watch the vid you see Rock shut the door on both Hayes and Yates. It's especially bad with Yates because it blocks him for a fair distance.. Rock wasn't racing with anyone at the time and he didn't just get caught at an awkward position when he couldn't get out of the way. Rock's interpretation apparently was that he could hold the fastest line which obviously isn't the intent of the Blue flag.

I definitely think they could clearify the situation if they said "hold a predictable line and allow the lapping rider to pass". When you make a rule too vague then say we get to interpret as we wish it's a problem.

Face it guys, if we'd read that the AMA had formally issued a warning or sanction to Rock for his actions we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. It was Ludington coming off like a bully in the pits that caused the problem.
SteveS
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7/28/2009 2:20pm
I explained this earlier in another thread, and it's really pretty simple. The case in question (on Youtube) involved a rider being lapped who claimed he was following the blue flag rule (said so in the video) because he "held his line". What he meant by that was he stayed in the preferred racing line. Since the event unfolded over a series of four-five turns, this meant that he crossed from the right side of the track to the left and back again several times. By doing so, he stuck himself between the first and second place riders, ruining their race--he had to rather violently close the door on the second place rider as he attempted to pass the lapped rider.

The blue flag rule says to hold your line and allow the faster rider to pass. Taking the racing line means you are neither holding your line nor allowing the faster rider to pass.

If the faster rider starts to pass you on the outside of a right hand turn, he is to your left. If he does not complete the pass on that right hand turn because you were being an idiot and racing him, in order to hold your line in compliance with the rule, you must stay to his right as you enter the next left hand turn (which means you give up the preferred racing line to him by holding your own line) and allow him to pass.

It's as simple as that. All the racers that think "holding their line" means keeping the preferred racing line are wrong.
motogrady
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7/28/2009 2:59pm


In construction there's a book, a National Code book, called BOCA.

If you read it, in the very first pages, it says, "Any and all codes in this book
are subject to local authority interpretation."

In other words, this book is bullshit.
Just like "7.14.vii" is.

txmxer
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7/28/2009 3:10pm
SteveS wrote:
I explained this earlier in another thread, and it's really pretty simple. The case in question (on Youtube) involved a rider being lapped who claimed he...
I explained this earlier in another thread, and it's really pretty simple. The case in question (on Youtube) involved a rider being lapped who claimed he was following the blue flag rule (said so in the video) because he "held his line". What he meant by that was he stayed in the preferred racing line. Since the event unfolded over a series of four-five turns, this meant that he crossed from the right side of the track to the left and back again several times. By doing so, he stuck himself between the first and second place riders, ruining their race--he had to rather violently close the door on the second place rider as he attempted to pass the lapped rider.

The blue flag rule says to hold your line and allow the faster rider to pass. Taking the racing line means you are neither holding your line nor allowing the faster rider to pass.

If the faster rider starts to pass you on the outside of a right hand turn, he is to your left. If he does not complete the pass on that right hand turn because you were being an idiot and racing him, in order to hold your line in compliance with the rule, you must stay to his right as you enter the next left hand turn (which means you give up the preferred racing line to him by holding your own line) and allow him to pass.

It's as simple as that. All the racers that think "holding their line" means keeping the preferred racing line are wrong.
link?

Haven't seen it, but your explanation is usually the issue when someone wants to be pissed about the lapper flag.

Funny, none of the complainers answered my question as to how they think it should be.

tbright80
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Lexington, NC US
7/28/2009 3:39pm
I like getting the blue flag and when i turn back to slow down and let the leader by ,the leader is probably thirty seconds behind and every offiicial with one waves that thing like the leader is on your tale... maybe they should change the way they do it as in when the the flag is waved the leaders are on you and when the flag is neutral the leaders are are not close but coming ..
curmudgeon
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7/28/2009 4:04pm
JPT wrote:
Not supporting the AMA or Ludington on this one, but when you watch the vid you see Rock shut the door on both Hayes and Yates...
Not supporting the AMA or Ludington on this one, but when you watch the vid you see Rock shut the door on both Hayes and Yates. It's especially bad with Yates because it blocks him for a fair distance.. Rock wasn't racing with anyone at the time and he didn't just get caught at an awkward position when he couldn't get out of the way. Rock's interpretation apparently was that he could hold the fastest line which obviously isn't the intent of the Blue flag.

I definitely think they could clearify the situation if they said "hold a predictable line and allow the lapping rider to pass". When you make a rule too vague then say we get to interpret as we wish it's a problem.

Face it guys, if we'd read that the AMA had formally issued a warning or sanction to Rock for his actions we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. It was Ludington coming off like a bully in the pits that caused the problem.
I think both you and SteveS have the right idea, but what the AMA said did not clarify this at all. This debate is happening because "holding your line" has many interpretations. I find the whole thing just funny because both Rock and Ludington are idiots, so I could care less.

I don't see this sort of debate happening in MotoGP, in fact if you watch Donington both Casey and Stoner handled getting lapped in a safe and professional manner. I don't know what they do to avoid this, but they do seem to put more emphasis on the rider slowing down to let others pass. MotoGP Flag Rules I also think there is more rider parity than in AMA roadracing and mx, but there is less than 20 on the line most of the time.


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