450s are too fast, and too loud...

Nerd
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Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 12:11pm
So I've asked this a million times, but instead of 350s and all of this, why wouldn't they just cut the sound level dramatically?

This would both slow down the 450s AND make them quieter.

Easy fix.

What do you guys think?
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swizcore
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11/29/2009 10:59am
Im a 350 proponent so I think this would be a good idea. UNLESS, by restricting the exhaust it created unresponsive power areas; that would be nasty on the face of a triple.
CamP
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11/29/2009 11:06am
Didn't we discuss this three years ago?
jmar
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11/29/2009 11:09am
Nerd wrote:
So I've asked this a million times, but instead of 350s and all of this, why wouldn't they just cut the sound level dramatically? This would...
So I've asked this a million times, but instead of 350s and all of this, why wouldn't they just cut the sound level dramatically?

This would both slow down the 450s AND make them quieter.

Easy fix.

What do you guys think?
I agree, just muffle the 450s down.

Take them down to a 350 and the better funded teams will have an advantage just as they do now in the 250f class.

The Shop

jimmie
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11/29/2009 11:10am
I'm good with lowering the sound levels. I can't believe after all these years of everyone complaining about the noise that we have gone the other way! What's up with that?
CamP
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11/29/2009 11:11am
10" travel would make the racing safer as well.
G Force
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11/29/2009 11:19am
Have the AMA, NPG, FELD, or whoever oversees all the racing, contract out exhaust systems to a company who can build a 80 db unit. Then supply the teams and privateers with free exhaust, nobody can bitch, and they can find the horsepower elsewhere in the engine.

BobbyM
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11/29/2009 11:23am
CamP wrote:
10" travel would make the racing safer as well.
3 inches
CamP
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11/29/2009 11:34am
CamP wrote:
10" travel would make the racing safer as well.
BobbyM wrote:
3 inches
That would make it flat track.
eddie
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11/29/2009 11:35am
why are you asking us ? our opinion does not matter one iota ! the manufactuers decide what is good for moto and apparently they have decided that loud four strokes are good .
Outsider
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11/29/2009 11:48am
That would be a logical, and cost effective solution for everyone...


Therefore, it will never happen.







jmar
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11/29/2009 11:55am
eddie wrote:
why are you asking us ? our opinion does not matter one iota ! the manufactuers decide what is good for moto and apparently they have...
why are you asking us ? our opinion does not matter one iota ! the manufactuers decide what is good for moto and apparently they have decided that loud four strokes are good .
I don't believe the OEMs are as powerful as they once were but that doesn't stop the well funded teams from capitalizing on the reduction of displacement.

The 450 has been the greatest equalizer over the last 20 years. Now if they would make the teams run production suspension components, people like Reed, Stewart, Villopoto and others would slow down a few seconds a lap. They would all still be the top riders but they would slow down a bit.

DrSweden
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11/29/2009 11:59am
Same reason why we don't see the same displacement rule for two-stroke and four strokes.

(OEM says no, and those in charge of the series have their hands in these pockets).

Some one once told me, follow the money...
11/29/2009 11:59am
Smaller engine components that are rotating=better handling.

Thats why 250F's ride similar lap times when comparing to 450s

It also explains why Villopoto needed some time to adjust to the 450, while he was riding top 5 laptimes in SX the year before on his 250f

according to this theory, the gap between 250s and 350s will be bigger than the gap between 250s and 450s.
Tiki
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11/29/2009 12:05pm
I know this is a foreign concept to the rocket scientists that post here but here ya go.

To Loud: you can quiet anything
To Fast: as long as someone has made something to hog wild on, people will.

Look at the speed and loudness of the 250F's from 2002 to today. Much louder, much faster.

WHY would this BE?
as long as someone has made something to hog wild on, people will.
JW381
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11/29/2009 12:15pm
I hadn't considered that, and I think if the power remains stable, that would be a better solution. I'm pretty sure the sound of a 350 will be closer to that of a 250, and not a 450. And 250's are loud as fuck...

Then again, none of us have really ridden a 350 so it could be a really great package. I'd be eager to try one out. Minus the whole 4-stroke thing lol
OW38B
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11/29/2009 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2009 12:23pm
DrSweden wrote:
Same reason why we don't see the same displacement rule for two-stroke and four strokes. (OEM says no, and those in charge of the series have...
Same reason why we don't see the same displacement rule for two-stroke and four strokes.

(OEM says no, and those in charge of the series have their hands in these pockets).

Some one once told me, follow the money...
Agree 100%. The OEM's call the shots here in the US. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.
sc961
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11/29/2009 12:25pm
Nerd, I agree especially about the loudness issue.

If we look across the sport, who are the people that "could" have the most impact on change? Are these same people making the effort to lessen db output? I only ask because I really don't know..

Why are local districts enforcing sound regulations, but not so much at the top national levels for amatuers. Yes there is sound testing at the professional level, but if you attend one or any of them it's clear problems remain.

The severe injuries are piling up, the land closures and back yard tracks are closing down, and new MX bikes are being sold everyday that will not pass a sound test. I own one. It's a great motorcycle, but so loud it's embarrassing.

People today can barely afford to spend the money to buy a new moto bike, much less another $1200 on a more quiet exhaust system.. This proves true in the numbers at the local tracks across the US. They are shrinking every day, and some of the reasons for that movement aren't getting the attention they derserve.
sharkey
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11/29/2009 12:37pm
longevity on a 250f isnt good though, especially with this economy where everyone cant afford to replace bikes each year
jmar
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11/29/2009 12:39pm
DrSweden wrote:
Same reason why we don't see the same displacement rule for two-stroke and four strokes. (OEM says no, and those in charge of the series have...
Same reason why we don't see the same displacement rule for two-stroke and four strokes.

(OEM says no, and those in charge of the series have their hands in these pockets).

Some one once told me, follow the money...
OW38B wrote:
Agree 100%. The OEM's call the shots here in the US. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.
They use to. We'lll see how many OEMs disappear from both series in the next few years.
Rupert X
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11/29/2009 12:51pm


Many of us have proposed this very question for a few years now and, I concur,

it's a worthy plan, yet it has fallen on, ahem, deaf ears....

QUIET on a 450 will still be plenty fast for most humans.
noob
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11/29/2009 12:51pm
CamP wrote:
10" travel would make the racing safer as well.
I've always wondered why 240 pound MX bikes have less travel than 35-40 pound downhill MTBs. Is there a reason for this?
RMZ819
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11/29/2009 1:20pm
swizcore wrote:
Im a 350 proponent so I think this would be a good idea. UNLESS, by restricting the exhaust it created unresponsive power areas; that would be...
Im a 350 proponent so I think this would be a good idea. UNLESS, by restricting the exhaust it created unresponsive power areas; that would be nasty on the face of a triple.
Kids are hitting triples with 85's these days. I am thinking a chocked down 450 would be just fine.
TerryK
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11/29/2009 1:38pm
That idea is not bad, except for one thing. Whats to stop people from uncorking them, just as they do now? Don't say db limits because we all know how those are working, and besides, the majority of MX bikes never see a track on race day anyway.
swizcore
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11/29/2009 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:11pm
swizcore wrote:
Im a 350 proponent so I think this would be a good idea. UNLESS, by restricting the exhaust it created unresponsive power areas; that would be...
Im a 350 proponent so I think this would be a good idea. UNLESS, by restricting the exhaust it created unresponsive power areas; that would be nasty on the face of a triple.
RMZ819 wrote:
Kids are hitting triples with 85's these days. I am thinking a chocked down 450 would be just fine.
I agree but taking a purpose built 450 and detuning it by choking its ability to dispell exhaust gas inherintly creates the possibility of creating unuseable power "flat spots". I would assume through R&D this would become a nonfactor.
Larry
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11/29/2009 1:41pm
I rode a 280 KTM a few days ago and it was very impressive. All the torque and speed I could ever use and i could ride it much longer than a 450.
Camp332
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11/29/2009 1:44pm
I really do want a quieter silencer for my 450. I'm not talking 1 or 2 decibels, I mean 10+ decibels quieter. I want to be able to ride at my secret testing facility without a hassle. I don't get hassled all the time, however, it does happen on occasion.
Rupert X
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11/29/2009 1:51pm


Good news is - that if the bikes were quieter, we'd get to hear the announcers.

Bad news is - that we'd get to hear the announcers.








* Maybe we could pipe in a two-stroke soundtrack. Hey !

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