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indoors very little R&D from SX so far...
outdoors.... there is a wealth of data from many different riders and countries.... winning tends to do that, not that it matters.
Why not ride the 350 and work harder, especially when everyone thinks it's not really a 350 anyway?
The Shop
One of the main points of a 350 is it will be less tiring over the course of a moto, what makes you think you'de end up working harder?
something tells me I completely wasting my time with this & probably dealing with a 12 yr old on the other side of the keyboard.
But that said, go watch both Alessi and Shorty in the whoops section. They sucked in them (MA usually isn't strong in them so forget him, but that's not Shorty's excuse he's usually been fine in them). Either their suspension settings were jacked or they just couldn't get the drive out of that corner going into them to get enough speed up. RC said they needed to be wide open in 4th going into the whoops. I could see that being a problem for the 350 compared to riding a 450. Again, I couldn't tell if it was a power issue coming out of the turn or a suspension issue. But that was the only part of that track where they gave up ground to the 450s.
All in all, I'm pretty damn impressed with the bike. One of the top 5 current riders on that bike would still be a top 5 rider for sure.
So if the 350 is going to be slow in the outdoors, especially off the gate, then how do we explain RV on a 250cc bike at the 2007 Moto des Nations (Budds Creek) with his holeshot(s)? At least one moto was against 450 riders to include RC. So if having 200cc less in your motor is good than having 100cc less is better? Not sure, but if RV bested the world in two motos on Kawasaki KX250F against larger displacement bikes at the Motocross of Nations then it is just a matter of time before a KTM mounted rider will win on a 350? Put the right rider on the right bike and he will win...
The smaller bike will go down a hill or into a corner faster, but get beat coming out or uphill. RV had RC's gate pic and it was a 180 first turn, on top of that he was able to get out front and run whatever lines he wanted. So, like the 350 0n occasion, he just didnt have to slow down as much going into such a tight corner.
What do you think would happen if he had only a decent start and found himself on the inside of a 450 coming out of one of those corners going uphill?
Still a great ride but there's a reason nobody wants to be on a 250f or 250 2 stk in the 450 class, and there's also a reason the 350 wasn't made until there was supposed to be a 350cc class.
BTW, you do know that adding power to the 350 will actually make it handle better right?
So I dont actually care why they wouldnt take advantage of the rules they dont have in Europe, I just want to know why this incredible machine was developed for a 350cc class instead of the 450.
So earlier you made a statement that most believe KTM is not running 350 in Europe, now you say you don't care why the wouldn't.
A total waste of time.
See where I'm going with this? It was made for a 350cc class that didn't pan out, now higher cost, less power and more rpm is being spun into an advantage of some sort in the 450 class, we could have used this magnificence before FIM thought lower cost 250 2 stks were more equal to 350cc 4 stks than 450's.
And the opinions from riders and various others you ask for are out there, easy to find if you really care.
There are people here that have valid debates about the 350 / 450, one with you isn't.
Short is also riding one of the best bike in the world as you say and he is beating the same guys he beat last yr on that 450 Honda and is also losing to the same guys that beat him last yr while he was riding a 450 Honda..
It worked...they won the World title and are selling loads.
End of Arguement.
What's invalid about asking why we had to wait for the 350cc class to get what some say is better than a 450?
Pit Row
Could it be that when the West coast lites rider did it at Daytona 800 started trying a little harder? Did Decoster give $ome holeshot incentive?
It's not that these two guys are clueless and that some whatever person here on the forum has figured things all out is it? Sure one could have an opinion, and coincidence might make it the right one in the end, but we are all clueless. T
he 350 has it's pro and cons, but the overall package seems to makes sense as long as Roger and Stefan says so!
Remember back in the late 90s that Yamaha were developing the 400? How long did that take before it actually became truly competitive. I realise that back then they were not only changing cc but also stroke, but like the 350 it was an all new bike which has led to the dominance of 450s.
And cpj36, I don't even understand what you are talking about. KTM developed this bike to race AGAINST 450 bikes in the same class. They believe that there is an "optimum" engine capacity for racing, and believe that the 350 is this.
I believe that at the top level of racing, the top factory bikes are very similar. At that level a rider's ability is the main influence on results. We seen this when RC jumped ship from the dominant Honda to Suzuki, which at that time was seen as a weaker bike. Yet RC was still able to win and dominate the racing.
But I agree with you, there's an optimal displacement & it varies from rider to rider. The fact that the factories aren't tuning 450's for max hp, privateers have enough power to win without factory support, they are tuning the 350 more peak hp / torque, the 350 turns more rpm which helps make the power more competitive through the gear reduction, it's won a world title & has gotten plenty of great starts prove it's competitive & only getting better.
ie; 105 2t, 150 2t, 200 2t, 250F, 300 2t, 350f, 450 f, 530f,
not all these bikes have a class to race in, did KTM get " jerked" around on these too ?
The point I tried to make was that no matter what, a new bike takes time to fully develop before it consistently performs well. Hope I cleared this up!
Do you not remember this? This isn't Honda where the bike gets made then the class, it was going to be lowered to 350cc then KTM made a 350.
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