2Tall KTM 250sx

samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 10:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2015 1:11am
So,

After watching some video of a couple of my motos last week, and watching how effortlessly the little guys move around on the bike compared to me, and how I make my 2012 KTM 250sx look like an 85 (OK, that probably isn't going to change anytime soon), I finally decided I needed to spend some money to open up the cockpit. I'm a bit bigger then the "average" rider, standing 6'7" and weighing in at just under 220 lbs, but I've always kinda shied away from tall seats and pegs, as I haven't liked the feel of tall seats in the past (not to mention they look weird), and 5mm lower pegs just didn't seem like they were going to do much for me, but I was determined to try something. As I was looking through eBay and other sites I came across 2Tall Racing, and long story short, bit the bullet and spent too much on their stage II Space Kit. Simply put, the kit moves the handlebars, tank, subframe, and seat up and out about 2". The Stage II kit's goal is to convert modern linkage style KTMs to fit riders above 6'4". For more info the kit, click here.

Anyways, while I was debating on whether it was a good idea to give my right arm for the kit, I discovered that there really isn't a whole lot out there on the kit itself, other then a few positive words on a couple forums, and the info on 2Tall's website. I started this thread to give my thoughts on the kit and hopefully help other tall guys like me!

Again, I'm a 6'7", 220 lb motocross rider, 22 years old, and ride C (I've been told I may have to move up to B next year so I'm moving up in the world). I run Windham mids and have my suspension set up for me (interested to see how the kit affects those numbers).



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samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 10:30pm




The kit came in today, 2nd photo is what the kit comes with, as well as an air boot extender and shroud rubber band fasteners which somehow didn't make the picture. (tank spacer, bar clamps x 2, bar clamp 5mm spacer x 2, lower subframe extender x 2, upper subframe extender x 2, exhaust silencer bracket, silicone sealant for the air boot extender, radiator rubber band holders x 2)
moto0852
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Draper, UT US
5/20/2015 10:33pm
I'm 6'4" and am seriously considering the kit as well so please keep posting your review!
thanks
Scott
Crush
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Sydney AU
5/20/2015 10:34pm
Hey bud, I'm the same as you, though a little heavier at the moment!

I'd stay away from the bars going too far up or forward if you're into moto. It's fine in trees but you'll definitely notice a difference in the turns.

Lowboy pegs are good and I know the KTM Europe factory teams were relocating their pegs 5-10mm down and back anyways with new welds.

Taller seat is ok, but don't go nuts, again, it'll effect your steering.
samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 10:48pm
The next three pictures are all of the stock bike without the kit. The before pics so to speak.







The Shop

samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 10:56pm
Air boot extender. The stock air boot slips over the back edge of the extender just as it would the airbox opening. Then you run a bead of sealant between the lip of the air boot and the extender and let it cure. Simple and seems to work. Also looks like the extender is a two piece unit already glued together (the stage I extender plus another extender is my guess).








samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 11:14pm
Here are the handlebar clamps installed. I did use the orange 5mm spacers provided as well. Definitely up there in height, should get some looks at the track!




The brake line is pretty tight, I converted the '12 to the iBeam front fender and plate but went cheap and didn't get the special bracket, just drilled holes in the bottom of the fender. As a result it pushes the front plate out a bit and thats whats limiting the slack. I'll have to do some messing with it.


samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 11:27pm
The tank spacer is made out of pretty stiff rubber. It slides down over the original tank mount on the frame. The orange metal spacer coming out of the center butts up against the frame and helps the longer 8mm bolt supplied in the kit fasten the tank to the frame.





samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 11:35pm
Top left and right subframe extenders. To get the right side on, you must remove the top shock bolt as it uses it as one of its fasteners. They supply to two bolts that go in the original subframe mounts. The left side bracket slips over the opposite side of the shock mount.






samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/20/2015 11:56pm
Got it all put back together, here are some before and after pictures. Pretty easy install for sure, only took a few hours.

Tank height:





Subframe and seat height:





Silencer:





Left Side Subframe:






2Tall Stage II Space Kit installed:





Gazza
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NZ
5/21/2015 1:04am
I remember their original bikes as they were developing the frames, good to see they're still going and the kits are certainly more elegant these days. I was always interested but never on a KTM at the time back in NZ.

The Doeksen brothers sure do haul the mail as well, a remember struggling to keep Jan behind me on my 125 when he was on an 85 and already like 6ft! They only got faster as they made their bikes fit.

Enjoy the beast!
scott_nz
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5/21/2015 1:46am
Gazza wrote:
I remember their original bikes as they were developing the frames, good to see they're still going and the kits are certainly more elegant these days...
I remember their original bikes as they were developing the frames, good to see they're still going and the kits are certainly more elegant these days. I was always interested but never on a KTM at the time back in NZ.

The Doeksen brothers sure do haul the mail as well, a remember struggling to keep Jan behind me on my 125 when he was on an 85 and already like 6ft! They only got faster as they made their bikes fit.

Enjoy the beast!
they live in Florida now, but its still the same family making these, great people, and both brothers could haul ass when required,
Markee
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5/21/2015 4:52am
Thats pretty cool, but I think the bars are to much. I found and have heard from other tall guys that taller bars just don't do much, I loose feel. The lower and more rolled back has improved feeling and cornering for me. But I do run lower pegs which I love.
Crush
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5/21/2015 5:01am
Markee wrote:
Thats pretty cool, but I think the bars are to much. I found and have heard from other tall guys that taller bars just don't do...
Thats pretty cool, but I think the bars are to much. I found and have heard from other tall guys that taller bars just don't do much, I loose feel. The lower and more rolled back has improved feeling and cornering for me. But I do run lower pegs which I love.
This.
nytsmaC
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Frig Off CA
5/21/2015 5:09am
I can see why the bars would need to be up 2" higher with the seat/tank/subframe up like that. Should feel normal as long as they're not too far forward. I find that the steering starts to feel strange when they are set too far forward from the steering stem axis.

Like the others I'm a big fan of low pegs, some bikes definitely need them more than others.
montesagold
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East, TN US
5/21/2015 6:27am
Interesting... I'm only 6'2'' and feel bordline "cramped' so I can't imagine at your size. My 2010 Wr300 husky feels tall and long and its the first bike I've owned I don't feel the need to alter. When I upgrad I dread finding somthing to fit me as well. i had a 2007 xc250 and added risers and a tall seat which made the bike awkward just in a different way. what does this kit do that a tall seat wouldn't other thatn raise the tank which in return raises the center of gravity even more. I'll admit the subrame looks better than a tall seat.
FGR01
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5/21/2015 7:41am
I have no need whatsoever for increasing the size of a bike but this report and pics are excellent.
samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/21/2015 8:43pm
Thanks for the comments guys! If you have any questions about the kit or want specific pics of stuff just let me know!

Went out this morning and got some better shots of the bike put together.















(Got the most important things installed: the 2Tall decals!)
Heavyrider
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Albuquerque, NM US
5/21/2015 9:06pm
Thanks for starting the thread. Have you got a chance to ride yet?
samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/21/2015 9:44pm
Here are some before and after shots of me on the bike. Its crazy how tall it is, in one of the pictures you can see I'm on my toes with the bike off the stand. This very well could be the first bike I've ever been able to let me legs dangle on, its a crazy feeling for sure! Had my 6'4" cousin who rides sit on it, he could hardly get his leg over the seat!

Stock:


Kit Installed:


Sitting

Stock:


Kit:



Standing

Stock:



Kit:



Off Stand

Kit:

1
5/21/2015 10:59pm
interested to hear a ride report. I'm 6'4". Tried all sorts of stuff, in the end all I use are triple uppers that can move the bars forward and windham bend bars. I have no issues with comfort out on the track, but what I do find is i have to crouch more, or at least have my legs/arms bent more, then shorter people. The long limbs mixed with the low body position wears my ass out.
Crush
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5/21/2015 11:12pm
Pay attention to your jumping, I promise you with the super high bars you're going to find your neutral position back further than normal and some potential air wheelies and bruised arse cheeks are in your future!
Bearuno
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5/21/2015 11:27pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2015 11:27pm
Something to consider for bigger blokes are the KTM450RR pegs, or Fastways ADV pegs.

The KTM pegs are 8mm lower than the standard KTM pegs, wider (54mm), and Longer (130mm from pivot center to the outside of the peg). Yes, the extra length / lower positioning will mean they hit more things, but, I ride in very tight, rocky terrain and it presents no problem, just a bit more 'clacking' against things. Lower, bigger and longer pegs, work well for you 'Big Foots', and blokes with serious knee valgus like me......

The Fastways are, I think, wider again, and possibly might go lower - well, at least as low as the 450RR ones, if you use the lowering feature of those pegs. I ordered a set of Fastways from the US, but when they arrived, they were the weaker version, that I think they made so the porky big ADV Supertanker riders didn't damage frames. I think they may have reinstated the original type to their product line, as I now see both types on their website. They did admit they had a fair few people returning the pegs with less reinforcement, but I drew a blank on getting them to do some with the original CNC programing. They must have finally had enough people wanting the stronger version.

I'm not a fan of alloy pegs - the only reason I went for the Fastways initially was because of the costs of the steel KTM ones - first they were only available as individual items - KTM then made a pair available as a part number, for roughly the same price as a individual one. The Fastways, being high quality machined items, are far better than the myriad cast versions out there. With longer pegs, you should get high quality / high strength ones
samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/21/2015 11:31pm
Loaded the bike up this afternoon and headed over to the family farm to try it out. Out in the horse pasture there's a grass track the weaves up and down the hills that I've probably logged about a billion laps on. Back in the day my dad used it to train for vintage nationals. I spun my first ever motocross lap around it when I was 5, and it is basically the same layout now. It's great for technique and cornering, so I thought this would be the perfect place to break the kit in.


First off, there is no comparison to this bike and the one I had a couple days ago. They are completely different machines, not like I added a tall seat and bar raisers, but like I stepped off my bike and took a stranger's non ktm out for a test. I was expecting it to feel different, but I didn't expect it to lose its overall feel in general if you know what I mean. It is definitely going to take some time getting used to, and I only got about an hour of riding in so this is going to be an very early evaluation.

Right away one of the biggest things I noticed was how I could feel the bike with my knees and inside thighs, especially when standing. I've always struggled with the concept of gripping the bike with my legs, as its just never felt natural, and probably because of that I have destroyed a few pairs of gloves in my day by way of superhuman death grip of the bars. Furthermore, standing has always felt unstable, especially on high speed jumps or rolling woops, as I was pretty much holding on by my hands and feet. That definitely will be changing, though, because as I started getting some laps under my belt I could start to feel myself gripping the bike with my knees naturally, and what a difference it makes! It's feels as if I've cut a bunch of excessive movement out of my technique, like its smaller and more compact. Because of that I have never felt so stable on a bike. Short guys imagine chopping your subframe down so that when you are standing, the seat is below your knees. I just now today realized how tough that really is.

Another thing I noticed was my elbows stay high naturally. I've really struggled with keeping my elbows up, as they tend to stay down at my sides way too much. This year I've put a lot of effort into correcting that. However it hasn't been showing much:


(also notice my knees above the seat)

The added bar height and overall length of the cockpit must help as my elbows were staying up without me having to force them to. It felt nice for sure.

The transition from sitting to standing and visa versa has also benefited from the kit. I was explaining to my dad that before it was like I was locked in to whatever position I was in. I was either sitting or standing, and to change from one to the other required a lot of effort and movement. I actually know the feeling all too well of preparing myself to do a full squat to stand up on the face of jumps or G outs. A lot of times I would just give up trying and end up seat bouncing everything. With the kit the transition is so much easier. To be honest this is what I wanted most out of the kit, as it was the biggest advantage I saw that shorter riders had; the ability to move from sitting to standing fluidly. So far so good, but I haven't been to a modern track yet so we'll have to wait for the final verdict on that one.

Cornering felt good for day 1, actually had a few instances where I thought I was loosing the front end, but I think it was actually the bike oversteering. This is weird because I have never quite been able to get this bike to turn. So the fact that I was oversteering on a regular basis might be a good thing, I'll mess with suspension and see how it reacts.

One discovery I made was that the mud flap doesn't like to slide between the rear tire and the swing arm too nicely. There's some sort of casting ridge on the swing arm that the now-raised bottom of the mudflap catches on. Result? This is how the mudflap was after I pulled back in.



Any ideas on how to correct this?

Thats pretty much it for my maiden voyage aboard the 2Tall Stage II fitted KTM. First impressions are really positive, I'm excited to get some more time on this thing! Again if you have any questions just let me know!

samifan
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Brule, WI US
5/21/2015 11:42pm
Crush wrote:
Pay attention to your jumping, I promise you with the super high bars you're going to find your neutral position back further than normal and some...
Pay attention to your jumping, I promise you with the super high bars you're going to find your neutral position back further than normal and some potential air wheelies and bruised arse cheeks are in your future!
I'm going to hit up some local tracks this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes. To be honest the bars don't feel that high at all, as the rest of the bike is also 2" higher. Also, one of the main reasons I gave this kit a try is the fact that I'm so much bigger then the average rider that the geometry is already way off, and this kit claims that it returns it closer to what was intended when the bike was designed. Like anything it will probably help my riding in some areas and hurt it in others, I'm just hoping the good outweighs the bad. So far so good!
mfowler
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Kelseyville, CA US
5/21/2015 11:57pm
Excellent report, thanks. Please keep us updated.
Crush
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5/22/2015 12:34am
Crush wrote:
Pay attention to your jumping, I promise you with the super high bars you're going to find your neutral position back further than normal and some...
Pay attention to your jumping, I promise you with the super high bars you're going to find your neutral position back further than normal and some potential air wheelies and bruised arse cheeks are in your future!
samifan wrote:
I'm going to hit up some local tracks this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes. To be honest the bars don't feel that...
I'm going to hit up some local tracks this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes. To be honest the bars don't feel that high at all, as the rest of the bike is also 2" higher. Also, one of the main reasons I gave this kit a try is the fact that I'm so much bigger then the average rider that the geometry is already way off, and this kit claims that it returns it closer to what was intended when the bike was designed. Like anything it will probably help my riding in some areas and hurt it in others, I'm just hoping the good outweighs the bad. So far so good!
Yeah I can see how it doesn't feel high, I just noticed when standing I felt further upright and back and I ended nose high a bit.

The knee control bit would definitely help, that's the one thing about a tall seat I miss! I just feel like it kills my sitting corners, suppose it depends on what sort of riding you're doing... or if you should just play basketball haha.
Markee
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5/22/2015 5:36am
Cool man, glad it worked out for you!
Pryda
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NO
5/22/2015 5:47am
Here's my opinion, im 6,4, so not in the same league as you, but again, its my opinion.

I think you stand too upright. Head over the front number plate and elbows more out. That way you should get more in control under acceleration, and I personally find it easier to move around and everything.
Spartacus
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PW US
5/22/2015 7:20am
I may be wrong but unless you're super tall it's impossible to know what it's like. The difference between the lower 6' range" and 6' 7"+ is really quite profound.

I'm 6' 9"/230# and come from the day of 32" seat heights. It's amazing to me that people today have the choices they do in how they modify their bikes for their size. Years past all you could do was a higher seat and whatever tall bars you could find. I use to run ATV bars.......

I've ridden all my bikes stock and then after I've done what I do, Rox risers, lower pegs and a taller seat and I've never found any huge difference in how the bike handles. Clearly some do but I don't.

For me a huge improvement in moving the bars forward with the Rox risers, it just gives me a ton more room and again, I don't find any big handling difference.

So cool you were able to get this kit, it's a big advantage over just the bandaid fixes we've all had to use in the past.

Great report.
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