250F's pulling 50+hp...can we get 250 2 strokes legal in the nationals now? Mxsports?

mxjon454
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mxjon454 4/24/2016 5:55pm
4/24/2016 5:55pm
SmoothOperator wrote:
The handicap needs to go. With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer...
The handicap needs to go.
With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer, that would be some great publicity.
In '05 both Stewart and Fonseca had some podium finished on 2shifties.
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a 250 2stroke outdoors in 2004.
IceMan446
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IceMan446 4/24/2016 5:57pm
4/24/2016 5:57pm
Won't happen.

This topic has been beaten to death already.
40
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40 4/24/2016 6:13pm
4/24/2016 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2016 6:24pm
colintrax wrote:
Good luck racing an AMA sactioned event. Maybe just buy a new 2 stroke instead. I did
Yes, we all know this. However there have been more and more non-AMA sanctioned series in some parts of the country to compete in. Ride those races instead whenever possible. Be willing to take a stand, or be content with the status quo.
Obviously, this is easiest done by the non-racing professional practice rider. But, if everyone put their foot down and sent the AMA a lump of coal instead of a credit card number or a check- things would change fast.
SmoothOperator 4/24/2016 6:47pm
4/24/2016 6:47pm
SmoothOperator wrote:
The handicap needs to go. With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer...
The handicap needs to go.
With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer, that would be some great publicity.
In '05 both Stewart and Fonseca had some podium finished on 2shifties.
mxjon454 wrote:
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a...
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a 250 2stroke outdoors in 2004.
http://vault.racerxonline.com/2005-07-31/250mx/washougal-motocross-park

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SmoothOperator 4/24/2016 6:50pm
4/24/2016 6:50pm
colintrax wrote:
Good luck racing an AMA sactioned event. Maybe just buy a new 2 stroke instead. I did
40 wrote:
Yes, we all know this. However there have been more and more non-AMA sanctioned series in some parts of the country to compete in. Ride those...
Yes, we all know this. However there have been more and more non-AMA sanctioned series in some parts of the country to compete in. Ride those races instead whenever possible. Be willing to take a stand, or be content with the status quo.
Obviously, this is easiest done by the non-racing professional practice rider. But, if everyone put their foot down and sent the AMA a lump of coal instead of a credit card number or a check- things would change fast.
I haven't given a dime to the AMA since 2001...
There's enough non ama races around.
Revel Stoked 4/24/2016 7:10pm
4/24/2016 7:10pm
I wouldn't care if a 250F made 60 HP. Its an expensive time bomb.

Im buying a bigger 2 stroke anyway.
And since 450s wont get bigger, Id buy a 360 or 500 2 stroke.

Plenty of brands like the Beta RRs that fit my needs. Or Husky/Ktm TM etc
Revel Stoked 4/24/2016 7:15pm
4/24/2016 7:15pm
Bearuno wrote:
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers. DC has the perfect example...
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers.

DC has the perfect example of the sky not falling with his XC2 class in GNCC.

No Handicapping with capacities - equivalency only. There's an enormous amount to yet come from 4ts - look to the Moto 3 category - 58HP (is the current number floating around) for fully kitted Moto3 bikes with strict controls / costs, and only 13,500 maximum RPM allowed.

Each engine type has it's advantages and disadvantages against each other - let them go at it with No BS handicapping rules.

The sport would be far better for it
To have an RPM limit the sanctioning body has to distribute ECUs then.

Otherwise why not run em to 19,000 like the bike I saw on the dyno with NO rev limiter set.
MX558
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MX558 4/24/2016 7:24pm
4/24/2016 7:24pm
bsharkey wrote:
a 50hp 250f is a joke in many ways. first the cost to build it and then to maintain it., fuel for it blah blah blah.
We have local shops making 50 hp 250fs and their reliable, rated at about 50 hrs for a top end . It's expensive yes but the bike is way better than a 2t . I rode a 16 yz250 yesterday and I'll take a stock 250f over that any day . They are legal at the local level and you still don't see many out there .
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kiwifan 4/24/2016 7:30pm
4/24/2016 7:30pm
MX558 wrote:
We have local shops making 50 hp 250fs and their reliable, rated at about 50 hrs for a top end . It's expensive yes but the...
We have local shops making 50 hp 250fs and their reliable, rated at about 50 hrs for a top end . It's expensive yes but the bike is way better than a 2t . I rode a 16 yz250 yesterday and I'll take a stock 250f over that any day . They are legal at the local level and you still don't see many out there .
^^ this
Bearuno
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Bearuno 4/24/2016 7:38pm
4/24/2016 7:38pm
Revel Stoked wrote:
To have an RPM limit the sanctioning body has to distribute ECUs then. Otherwise why not run em to 19,000 like the bike I saw on...
To have an RPM limit the sanctioning body has to distribute ECUs then.

Otherwise why not run em to 19,000 like the bike I saw on the dyno with NO rev limiter set.
That was an example of what is being done, right now, with 4ts, that have controls on them - not my advocating an RPM limit. Just think what they could do with no rev restriction, and none of the other controls. Look up the Moto 3 rules, if you are unaware of them, you'll stand to learn a bit..
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jeffro503 4/24/2016 10:01pm
4/24/2016 10:01pm
bsharkey wrote:
a 50hp 250f is a joke in many ways. first the cost to build it and then to maintain it., fuel for it blah blah blah.
MX558 wrote:
We have local shops making 50 hp 250fs and their reliable, rated at about 50 hrs for a top end . It's expensive yes but the...
We have local shops making 50 hp 250fs and their reliable, rated at about 50 hrs for a top end . It's expensive yes but the bike is way better than a 2t . I rode a 16 yz250 yesterday and I'll take a stock 250f over that any day . They are legal at the local level and you still don't see many out there .
Which is totally 100% I was asking why the 2 stroke 250's aren't allowed in the 250 class.

Side note : the 2 strokes are booming up here. Have gradually become more and more popular. 5yrs ago , we barely saw 2 - 5 2 strokes at a practice day. Now days....I'd say it's close to 20 - 30% of the bikes out there are 2 strokes.

I just bought a full top end rebuild for my RM 250....it was $120.00.
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Insider347 4/25/2016 4:29am
4/25/2016 4:29am
resetjet wrote:
However, that aside anyone would be nuts running a 2t in supercross. Moto x hell yes.
jeffro503 wrote:
2 stroke 250 against 250F's would be at a disadvantage? You think so?
kzizok wrote:
I agree that a 250 two stroke is at a disadvantage over 250f's. With 250f's getting in 50hp range, the gap widens. The better 250f's get...
I agree that a 250 two stroke is at a disadvantage over 250f's. With 250f's getting in 50hp range, the gap widens. The better 250f's get, the less people would want to ride a 250 2t.
I agree but then leave it up to the riders to choose what they want, 2 or 4.
Andy_Greenney 4/25/2016 4:35am
4/25/2016 4:35am
If anything 4 strokes have introduced a more level playing field for amateur racing. 2 strokes used to cost a fortune in tuning and rebuilds to run at the top amateur levels. If people have the money they will spend it regardless of what machinery is being run.
Benchracer17 4/25/2016 7:05am
4/25/2016 7:05am
SmoothOperator wrote:
The handicap needs to go. With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer...
The handicap needs to go.
With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer, that would be some great publicity.
In '05 both Stewart and Fonseca had some podium finished on 2shifties.
mxjon454 wrote:
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a...
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a 250 2stroke outdoors in 2004.
SmoothOperator wrote:
http://vault.racerxonline.com/2005-07-31/250mx/washougal-motocross-park
450



seth505
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seth505 4/25/2016 7:19am
4/25/2016 7:19am
Andy_Greenney wrote:
If anything 4 strokes have introduced a more level playing field for amateur racing. 2 strokes used to cost a fortune in tuning and rebuilds to...
If anything 4 strokes have introduced a more level playing field for amateur racing. 2 strokes used to cost a fortune in tuning and rebuilds to run at the top amateur levels. If people have the money they will spend it regardless of what machinery is being run.
That makes it sound like people were running highly modified 2 strokes and now everyone is running stock 4 strokes at the top amateur level. There are kids running what is pretty much a pro mod motor, which is definitely more expensive than a highly modified 2 stroke.
shiftmx_22
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shiftmx_22 4/25/2016 7:36am
4/25/2016 7:36am
Just take a look at the shit-show that is Canadian motocross (in regards to two-strokes).

It is way to political. The AMA doesn't want to lose the support of any manufacturers, and no matter what people say ("well [kawi/honda/suzuki] just needs to bring back a two-stroke then!") they will lose support from the manufacturers that don't have a two-stroke offering. That is it, plain and simple.

It is wayyy easier for the AMA to keep the rules the same and ignore the two-stroke guys (I'm one of them) than it would be to change the rules and try to find a way to make everyone happy. It'll just never happen. I wish it would, but it won't.
Andy_Greenney 4/25/2016 8:13am
4/25/2016 8:13am
seth505 wrote:
That makes it sound like people were running highly modified 2 strokes and now everyone is running stock 4 strokes at the top amateur level. There...
That makes it sound like people were running highly modified 2 strokes and now everyone is running stock 4 strokes at the top amateur level. There are kids running what is pretty much a pro mod motor, which is definitely more expensive than a highly modified 2 stroke.
If they have the money it will be spent on whatever, but I think 4 strokes still provide a more level platform than 2 strokes
mxb2
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mxb2 4/25/2016 8:23am
4/25/2016 8:23am
How many here emailed mx sports or the ama mx pro racing?

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Fearo
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Fearo 4/25/2016 8:24am
4/25/2016 8:24am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 8:25am
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
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seth505 4/25/2016 8:50am
4/25/2016 8:50am
seth505 wrote:
That makes it sound like people were running highly modified 2 strokes and now everyone is running stock 4 strokes at the top amateur level. There...
That makes it sound like people were running highly modified 2 strokes and now everyone is running stock 4 strokes at the top amateur level. There are kids running what is pretty much a pro mod motor, which is definitely more expensive than a highly modified 2 stroke.
Andy_Greenney wrote:
If they have the money it will be spent on whatever, but I think 4 strokes still provide a more level platform than 2 strokes
Ya, agreed people will spend the money, but less people are able to do that as the costs rise. Much friendlier on the wallet for everyone to port cylinder/head than get into cylinder/head/valves/springs/etc.
Jaze
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Jaze 4/25/2016 9:46am
4/25/2016 9:46am
DC make it happen and you got world most instresting motocross series.
Everybody is happy, riders and especially mx fans. Maybe Honda not, but who cares.
FlaNard
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FlaNard 4/25/2016 9:55am
4/25/2016 9:55am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 9:59am
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another Honda. Screw Honda. Oh and honestly, its beyond silly at this point that you cant race a two stroke against 250f's. Everyone knows it, but the same song and dance from the same people will continue, We lost this one. I gave up on sane decisions being made by those in charge years ago. It will be all four stroke until we all go electric.

40
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40 4/25/2016 10:14am
4/25/2016 10:14am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 1:49pm
The AMA is accepting rule change proposals for the 2017 season.
Contact Kevin Crowther at (614) 856-1900 ext1230
Tell him to change rule 2.1 to read: "150-500cc 2-Stroke and 249-450cc 4-stroke" for 450SX class.
Tell him to change rule 5.5 to read: "0-250cc 2-stroke and 0-250cc 4-stroke" for 250SX class.


You can also complete the online rule change proposal form:
https://fs4.formsite.com/AMARacing/Rule_Proposal/index.html

Get off your ass and make some noise about it.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 4/25/2016 10:14am
4/25/2016 10:14am
FlaNard wrote:
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another...
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another Honda. Screw Honda. Oh and honestly, its beyond silly at this point that you cant race a two stroke against 250f's. Everyone knows it, but the same song and dance from the same people will continue, We lost this one. I gave up on sane decisions being made by those in charge years ago. It will be all four stroke until we all go electric.

Hell yeah, support those who support 2 strokes. Like Suzuki.
Benihana225
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Benihana225 4/25/2016 10:24am
4/25/2016 10:24am
bsharkey wrote:
a 50hp 250f is a joke in many ways. first the cost to build it and then to maintain it., fuel for it blah blah blah.
Jesse Williams is pulling 49.8 hp out of the ktm 250sxf with a cam and ecu mods. 50+ with a 2nd injector mod. The ktm route doesnt take much to make stupid power
Old-Man
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Old-Man 4/25/2016 10:24am
4/25/2016 10:24am
Bearuno wrote:
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers. DC has the perfect example...
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers.

DC has the perfect example of the sky not falling with his XC2 class in GNCC.

No Handicapping with capacities - equivalency only. There's an enormous amount to yet come from 4ts - look to the Moto 3 category - 58HP (is the current number floating around) for fully kitted Moto3 bikes with strict controls / costs, and only 13,500 maximum RPM allowed.

Each engine type has it's advantages and disadvantages against each other - let them go at it with No BS handicapping rules.

The sport would be far better for it
This
colintrax
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colintrax 4/25/2016 10:28am
4/25/2016 10:28am
FlaNard wrote:
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another...
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another Honda. Screw Honda. Oh and honestly, its beyond silly at this point that you cant race a two stroke against 250f's. Everyone knows it, but the same song and dance from the same people will continue, We lost this one. I gave up on sane decisions being made by those in charge years ago. It will be all four stroke until we all go electric.

GrapeApe wrote:
Hell yeah, support those who support 2 strokes. Like Suzuki.
Hell yeah. My 2016 RM125 is awesome!
Old-Man
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Old-Man 4/25/2016 10:33am
4/25/2016 10:33am
SmoothOperator wrote:
The handicap needs to go. With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer...
The handicap needs to go.
With that said, even with the handicap, a good rider could still make a main on a smoker. For a privateer, that would be some great publicity.
In '05 both Stewart and Fonseca had some podium finished on 2shifties.
mxjon454 wrote:
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a...
Fonseca rode a 450 outdoors in 2005 and most of the guys rode 2 stromes in sx and switched to the 450 outdoors. Fonseca rode a 250 2stroke outdoors in 2004.
Hmmm...Typo? Other reads have him on a 450
Old-Man
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Old-Man 4/25/2016 10:34am
4/25/2016 10:34am
40 wrote:
The AMA is accepting rule change proposals for the 2017 season. Contact Kevin Crowther at (614) 856-1900 ext1230 Tell him to change rule 2.1 to read...
The AMA is accepting rule change proposals for the 2017 season.
Contact Kevin Crowther at (614) 856-1900 ext1230
Tell him to change rule 2.1 to read: "150-500cc 2-Stroke and 249-450cc 4-stroke" for 450SX class.
Tell him to change rule 5.5 to read: "0-250cc 2-stroke and 0-250cc 4-stroke" for 250SX class.


You can also complete the online rule change proposal form:
https://fs4.formsite.com/AMARacing/Rule_Proposal/index.html

Get off your ass and make some noise about it.
And here you go...Make a stand gents!

As if it will do any goodWhistlingLaughing
Old-Man
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Old-Man 4/25/2016 10:43am
4/25/2016 10:43am
At least take away the 450 SX class I mean who needs that much HP indoors?
Burp the throttle and Pro's clear a 90' Triple out of a turn.

Keep the 250 (Lights Class) as the premier class then have 125 Two Strokes class in place of the now Lights Class


Wait That's for a different thread

Post a reply to: 250F's pulling 50+hp...can we get 250 2 strokes legal in the nationals now? Mxsports?