250 Class. The New PREMIERE Class?

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Rupert X

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6/7/2012 8:24 PM

Sure seems that way.

The 450 class is run first.

The ferocity, passing , heroics and drama is all about the 250 class.

What are we to make of all this ?

And, if we took the TOP TEN in 250 points and launched them, suddenly, and with little trepidation, boldly up a notch -

how would it affect both classes ? Viewership ? The sport, in general ?

Discuss amongst yourselves, in a civil fashion - and then nap.

Tim507

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6/7/2012 8:28 PM

Looks like that is the case to me......

Germany 1975 250 CZ Centerport, laydown shocks, mikuni with reed valve, Marzocchi forks with me as the motopilot

petegrath

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6/7/2012 8:31 PM

Been saying this for the last few seasons...

The 250 boys kill it! The racing has been better with them for quite a while.... Any weekend could have a different winner, and the racing is off the chart.

Interestingly enough, they pull lap times that are not too far off from the 450s. But yet very few of them are getting hurt out there.

Tbteam

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6/7/2012 8:32 PM

I'm more excited to view this weekend's 250 motos than the 450's. More drive, more momentum necessary, more working the bike. I appreciate that.

Devil1nNj

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6/7/2012 8:33 PM

this year. definitely.

Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people -Eleanor Roosevelt

Aim: Devil1nnj

aaryn #234

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6/7/2012 9:55 PM

Back in the day of three classes, wasn't the middle class of the 250cc two strokes considered the premier class, I know it was always that way in Australia.

Luckily it looks like Stewy is back this weekend, though how much more interesting would the year be if JS and Dungey were thrown back into the 250 class to mix it with the young guys, would leave us with a tight battle in both classes, well maybe, maybe Dunge and JS would run away from all the current 250 guys as well!

loftyair

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6/7/2012 11:18 PM

One class, the PREMIER class, run any bike you want, 2stroke, 4 stroke, twin, 175cc, 850cc, who cares! Whatever YOU can go the fastest on! THen have a support class where there is little airtime and you will have the best racing the best, with the support guys getting good experience against eachother. Do the same in sx.

PressPassP

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6/7/2012 11:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2012 5:28 PM

Yep without a doubt,top 4 or 5 to be mote to the point,even the quieter Motos have come to life in the last end for an awesome finish

Sadly the 450s have been a bit of a let down for me,even with the inclusion of JS7 most races have sadly only had 5-10 minutes of anything.before getting strung out,mind you that's quite a testament to RD and JS as they are just that much better than everyone else


(I also regret my username,funny at the time "you had to be there..")

the_wood109

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6/7/2012 11:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/7/2012 11:45 PM

Rupert,

Honestly, I think that the 250 class should be stock engine, besides exhaust and maybe cams/valves. Obviously, stock suspension would be a bit too dangerous for those guys. IMO, it's a win - win and would tighten the class up even more.

The only question would be if it sparks a development war between OEMs. I think it has the potential to help the racing, but hurt companies like PC. In the end, it does work for supersport classes in road racing.

I'm sure guys like Mitch Payton would disagree, but I didn't get the chance to ask him since Watson tells me to listen to the other show when I call PulpMX, then hangs up.

xbox one: th3mup
steamid: hea†hen

carlosmacho

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6/8/2012 12:56 AM

If Roczen went back to Europe, Barcia moved up, we would have Bagget and Tomac, and it would be just like JS and RD in the 450 class, then Bagget gets hurt because of a crash That would leave Tomac who would be like Dungey in the 450, The 250 class would be boring.

But because we have more fast riders and 2 from Europe to join us in 250s, it makes the class that much more exciting, but does not make it the premier class.

Motocross is a contact sport

Derpin' DJ

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6/8/2012 12:58 AM

For this season it is. If we have a healthy 450 field next year, it's gonna be epic.

pecu_83

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6/8/2012 2:28 AM

loftyair wrote:

One class, the PREMIER class, run any bike you want, 2stroke, 4 stroke, twin, 175cc, 850cc, who cares! Whatever YOU can go the fastest on! THen have a support class where there is little airtime and you will have the best racing the best, with the support guys getting good experience against eachother. Do the same in sx.

The Finnish equivalent of AMA (SML) did this here because there weren't enough fast riders to all classes so now the premier motocross class here (MX1) has bikes 100-500cc 2t / 175-650cc 4t. Also in an effort to make motocross more interesting for the public they made the supercross series the main championship and it's also for any displacement or stroke bike. The Finnish supercross races are held mostly on altered motocross tracks because its not popular enough to hold the events on a big stadium.

Here its been good so far, the racing has been good and every rider knows they are on the best bike for them! There have been tight races for the win between MX2GP rider Harri Kullas on a Lites bike and MX3GP rider Antti Pyrhönen on a 450. There are also few guys who do good on a 250 2-stroke.

jamma10

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6/8/2012 2:53 AM

If VIllopoto & Reed were out there the 450 class would be probably be just as exciting as the 250 class.

But...I've always kinda had the feeling that the majority of the 450 boys just feel resigned to the fact they can't match the big four; Stewart, Dungey, Villopoto & Reed. With the exception of maybe Alessi and Townley when he was in the US, the rest seem like they're beaten before they even take their place on the line. It must be hard to find the motivation when yourself when the best you can hope for is finishing just inside the top ten every week, year after year. You lose the hunger.

Thats why I think the Lites is often so exciting, because they all still feel they can win!

Jeff Emigs Keys to the Race:
1. Get a good start
2. Don't crash

tobz

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6/8/2012 3:24 AM

250'f always look like theyre the faster, premier class because the front runners are close, but you throw those top 250f riders into the 450 class, the same people will continue to win, and for some reason this equates to a class that's not as good?

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 4:26 AM

loftyair wrote:

One class, the PREMIER class, run any bike you want, 2stroke, 4 stroke, twin, 175cc, 850cc, who cares! Whatever YOU can go the fastest on! THen have a support class where there is little airtime and you will have the best racing the best, with the support guys getting good experience against eachother. Do the same in sx.

We used to have this. It was called open class. KX500s, CR500s, KTM495s, WR500s, Husky TC610 4 strokes.


I just think it's funny how a lot of the "forward" thinking around here sounds an awful lot like the early 80s.

Overdrive

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6/8/2012 4:51 AM

Yep might as well call it what it is, the premier class. There is no advancement rule so they don't have to leave the 250 class as well. Just throw in a 125 class and you would be back in the olden days. 125, 250 and open.

Dungey and Stewart need to move down to have some competition.

ricko

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6/8/2012 5:01 AM

The 250 class is much more exciting and fun to watch then 450s, lots of passing and battles from front to back of the pack. I usually fast forward thru the 450s to watch the 250s.

JB 19

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6/8/2012 5:15 AM

Its like its 1994 again............

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 5:16 AM

Don't worry though boys, A1 2013 is going to blow everything you have ever seen away.

Canard, Reed, Villo, Jimmy Stewart on a Suzi, Dean Wilson, Barcia on factory Honda taking Brayton's job, RC somehow involved with H&H. www.shitDungeySays.com on the KTM,

Have a feeling there is going to be an open spot for a young Lites hotshoe on the JGR team. They won't carry Gavin Faith into SX full time.

And let's not forget that at about round 9 outdoors next year, a little man....a little man by the name on Ciancurullo will be making his debut on a little Kawi after wiping the floor with Loretta's.

it's going to be 2011 on steroids.

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 5:17 AM

JB 19 wrote:

Its like its 1994 again............

Watching Yogi kill it on an RM125, East Coast and Huffman on the west? Sleeping though MC winning 12 races? Yea, i'll buy that.

Hoov

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6/8/2012 5:44 AM

From another thread...

Hoov wrote: If you guys will go back and remember, the 250cc class evolved into the "premier class" of motocross racing...and the 500's faded away. That happened for a reason. With the evolution of the 250f, we now see riders in the "lites class" going just as fast as the 450's. Time for a reclassification of displacement perhaps???

Note: I am in favor of a 250cc class, and an Open class above 250cc. Two strokes, Four strokes...doesn't matter anymore. Bring back the tiddler class for the up coming and you have motocross again.

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 5:58 AM

Hoov wrote: From another thread...

Hoov wrote: If you guys will go back and remember, the 250cc class evolved into the "premier class" of motocross racing...and the 500's faded away. That happened for a reason. With the evolution of the 250f, we now see riders in the "lites class" going just as fast as the 450's. Time for a reclassification of displacement perhaps???

Note: I am in favor of a 250cc class, and an Open class above 250cc. Two strokes, Four strokes...doesn't matter anymore. Bring back the tiddler class for the up coming and you have motocross again.

Just bring it back to what it was all along in the AMA prior to 1996. 360cc for fourstrokes in the 250 class and ~185 in the 125 class.

Then make some sort of incentive (less stringent homog rules for them) for the Euro brands to get involved like TM, GasGas, ect.

If you did these 2 things (DC), there would be a motocross explosion. 7-8 manufacturers involved and a mixture of technologies again. I love seeing the 450s struggle like little piglets on ice with a 250 two stroke cutting through them like a butcher just like 2005 SX.

Paul333

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6/8/2012 6:45 AM

Hell NO.

The 250's are fun to watch but always remember that is the warm up class to the big boys.

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 6:50 AM

Paul333 wrote:

Hell NO.

The 250's are fun to watch but always remember that is the warm up class to the big boys.

The racing itself is better, regardless of what label you tag on it. I think that is Rupert's point.

Case in point, if I sit someone in front of a TV who doesn't know the class structure, 10 out of 10 times they'll say the Lites race was more exciting.

Reese95w

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6/8/2012 6:51 AM

YES

“Adhering to 1970’s Standards of Political Correctness”

PaleBlue

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6/8/2012 7:24 AM

carlosmacho wrote:

If Roczen went back to Europe, Barcia moved up, we would have Bagget and Tomac, and it would be just like JS and RD in the 450 class, then Bagget gets hurt because of a crash That would leave Tomac who would be like Dungey in the 450, The 250 class would be boring.

But because we have more fast riders and 2 from Europe to join us in 250s, it makes the class that much more exciting, but does not make it the premier class.

Shit Carlos, every now and again you say something remarkably sensible Also it's worth saying, that the 250's are bound to be more evenly matched ,when the best riders are routinely "promoted" out of the class to the 450's via the points system..

E.A.S.S.C. - as fun as it gets.............

bobby397

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6/8/2012 7:37 AM

With less people getting injuries in the 250 class, it's obvious the 450 is too much power for sx, maybe sx should be 250's and 350's only and outdoors 250's , 350's and 450 classes. Obviously the women would be cut out on the outdoors but perhaps healthier riders for the most part.

Two Stroke Taliban

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6/8/2012 7:37 AM

carlosmacho wrote:

If Roczen went back to Europe, Barcia moved up, we would have Bagget and Tomac, and it would be just like JS and RD in the 450 class, then Bagget gets hurt because of a crash That would leave Tomac who would be like Dungey in the 450, The 250 class would be boring.

But because we have more fast riders and 2 from Europe to join us in 250s, it makes the class that much more exciting, but does not make it the premier class.

PaleBlue wrote:

Shit Carlos, every now and again you say something remarkably sensible Also it's worth saying, that the 250's are bound to be more evenly matched ,when the best riders are routinely "promoted" out of the class to the 450's via the points system..

except for the fact that he left out Musquin and had not heard that Mitch Payton is trying to sign him for 2013...

bobby397

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6/8/2012 7:39 AM

Oh, by the way , happy birthday Rupert

burnside

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6/8/2012 7:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2012 8:36 AM

Totally. The top 4 in the 250 class are more capable of winning in the 450 class than 38 of the guys currently on the 450 line. Not saying they'd beat them straight up, but put it this way, I don't think Roczen, Tomac, Bagget or Barcia would be 30 secs back on Dungey... Barcia has already proven he has the speed to run (and fuck with) Dungey. and Roczen beat him on a 250!