2020 BRP/Can-Am Bikes?

-MAVERICK-
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2/24/2017 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2019 8:47pm
Hey guys,

I have no idea if they are coming out with bikes anytime soon however I just read a french article from 2016 which an analyst was discussing the subject. At the end at the article a spokesperson from BRP/Can-Am stated that for the time being, it was personal watercraft, all-terrain vehicles and side-by-side vehicles that formed part of the company's strategic development strategy but that they are keeping their eyes open to all the possibilities that exist in the market.

Over time BRP/Can-Am has been able to increase its market share in the snowmobile, watercraft, off-road vehicle and side-by-side sectors and that according to the analyst would suggests that there is no reason the management wouldn't be able to replicate that success in the motorcycle industry.

He estimates that BRP/Can-Am could occupy 3% to 5% of the motorcycle market which in term would generate annual revenues of 325 to 600 million for the company. According to him the company would have to invest less than 100 million in order to develop a range of competitive motorcycles.

When you think about it it makes sense. BRP/Can-Am has annual revenues that are over 3 billion. Not only that but the company already has everything in place to produce them. They already have some experienced research and development teams, an extensive network of dealers, an engine manufacturing division in Rotax that has already supplied motorcycle manufacturers, already have factories in place and already have experience in building motorcycle although that was back in the 70's but still experience none the less.

As a Canadian I would be very happy to see a Canadian company rise from the ashes and put out a competitive product. What do you guys say? Would you support a North American company and buy their bikes? I know for a fact that BRP/Can-Am of the past is not the BRP/Can-Am of today. That company is world class and as legit as they come.

They already have a system in place that allows you to customize your snowmobile if you pre-order it. Imagine if they would allow you to do the same with your MX bike. Get to choose your frame color, upgraded suspension, type of handlebars (Twinwall, Fatbars, 7/8"), clamps, wheels & tires type, plastic color, etc. that would be an awesome thing to have.

The sleds already come equipped with KYB shocks and Brembo brakes. On the ATV side I know some of them come with FOX shox and it's an option on others. Since they're already associated with great companies the bikes would come equip with very good components from the factory similar to KTM/Husqvarna. Imagine having the chance to order the bike straight from the factory with an A/B kit from KYB.

2020 would be realistic in my opinion for them to come out with a bike for the Supercross/AMA outdoors. It would give them the rest of this year along with 2018 and 2019 and have a competing bike for the 2020 SX season. They could use the 2020 season as their 1st year exemption rule and have the bikes to the market in 2021. That would give them 4 years to perfect it which is the same approach Yamaha has been doing the last couple of years.

They have the funds available to go after big name riders from the get go and for the 2020 season they could simply start out with a Factory 450 effort with 2 riders and introduce a Factory 250 effort in the 2021 season to compete on both the west and east coast.

They could definitely produce a clean and efficient two stroke that's for sure. They already have the cleanest two stroke in the snowmobile industry. The company is always inventing and innovating. Just this year they introduced something for their 2018 sleds called the SHOT starting system. It allows you to start your sled without a battery or a starter which makes for a 20 pound saving on the sled. The new SHOT system only weighs 2 pounds. All you have to do in order for it to work is pull start your sled once in the morning and after that you can use the SHOT system for the rest of the day. Push the button and the sled starts. It currently only works on their E-Tec engines but the company is so innovative they probably could manage to introduce that system to their bikes. With more bikes coming with electric starts how cool would it be to kickstart your bike once in the morning and then simply push a button to start it for the rest of the day. The best part about it is you would still have the kickstart so no worries about a DNF in the order that the system fails. You also wouldn't have to worry about the battery going dead. Plus add the weight saving in not having a starting motor it would make for a really light bike.

I truly hope they are considering getting back in the bike market. I no longer ride because of my accident but would without a doubt buy one of their bikes if I was still riding. What about you?

Here's a small clip explaining their SHOT system. It just shows you how innovative this company is.



As for colors I always thought their black and yellow sleds were the best looking ones and is actually their corporate colors. I wouldn't buy a complete black bike but a mix of the two colors I think would look great.

I'm not a quad guy but i think the following would look great in an MX bike version.



Or maybe go old school like one of these two.



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kzizok
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2/24/2017 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 2:58pm
Is there a Cliff Notes version?
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DA498
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2/24/2017 3:01pm
Off-road 2 stroke, GNCC.
cameron96
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2/24/2017 3:03pm
Yea I didn't read everything but I doubt they would jump into Moto. Probably street bikes, that would make the most sense financially

There an innovative company and there 2 stroke technology is top notch. They could compete with Ktm in the 2 stroke market if they tried
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2/24/2017 3:39pm
cameron96 wrote:
Yea I didn't read everything but I doubt they would jump into Moto. Probably street bikes, that would make the most sense financially There an innovative...
Yea I didn't read everything but I doubt they would jump into Moto. Probably street bikes, that would make the most sense financially

There an innovative company and there 2 stroke technology is top notch. They could compete with Ktm in the 2 stroke market if they tried
They're already in the street bike market with their Can-Am Spyder. It's a 3 wheeler but it's part of the street bike market. If they were to enter the MX market I seriously think they could compete with KTM/Husqvarna especially in the 2-stroke market.

If those numbers are accurate I don't know about you but if I had that kind of coin I wouldn't even hesitate to spend 80-100 million in or to make 1/2 a billion in annual sales. That is serious money.

The Shop

kzizok
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2/24/2017 4:03pm
It would almost be a losing proposition for quite some time (if not forever) in the off road/MX markets. Large risk with the potential of small, if any gain. 3-5% of the overall motorcycle market, perhaps, but the MX/off road market is tiny in comparison.
three9zero
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2/24/2017 4:10pm
I would love to see it happen. BRP's ATV, SideXSide, snowmobile and watercraft models are unreal, huge gains in market share in the last year or two. Also owning Rotax which is the best small engine manufacture in the world would help..Their E-tec and ACE engines are the best in the business.
I'm a bit partial to the brand as we picked this up at the 2018 model release/dealer meeting last week in Reno.

bh84
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2/24/2017 4:11pm
Off brand junk. Id never own one.
How exactly is Ski-Doo off-brand? Can-am is at the top with 4x4 and SxS, Spyder sales are high and Sea Doo dominates the PWC market. Company started in 1959. Definitely not off-brand
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kzizok
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2/24/2017 4:18pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 4:27pm
Forgot to add, there have been several instances where BRP/Can am could have become more involved (ATK, comes to mind) in off road development, if they really wanted to. But, it appears they were happy to supply the motors and focus in other things. I cant help but think that if they were really interested in getting in the off road market, they would have already done so. In other words, companies are in the business of making money. If they felt they could produce healthy profits in the off road sector, they would have been in it a long time ago.

However, things change sometimes.
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2/24/2017 4:25pm
kzizok wrote:
It would almost be a losing proposition for quite some time (if not forever) in the off road/MX markets. Large risk with the potential of small...
It would almost be a losing proposition for quite some time (if not forever) in the off road/MX markets. Large risk with the potential of small, if any gain. 3-5% of the overall motorcycle market, perhaps, but the MX/off road market is tiny in comparison.
Yeah the analyst was talking about the overall motorcycle market. MX/Off-Road is only a small portion of that. I highly doubt they would strictly enter the MX/Off-Road market. They're already in the street market with the Spyder so it wouldn't be that far fetch for them to expand on their product line.

It would be cool for them to make a comeback. If a small boutique firm like TM can produce bikes and make a profit from it I'm sure BRP can figure it out. After all they have a lot more resources at their disposal than TM. Other article I read said they were investing 120 million at their Quebec Headquarters for production since the company keeps on growing so who knows what they have up their sleeves. The spokesperson for BRP said that motorcycles could be an option for the company.

I guess we'll see.
kzizok
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2/24/2017 4:32pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 4:35pm
kzizok wrote:
It would almost be a losing proposition for quite some time (if not forever) in the off road/MX markets. Large risk with the potential of small...
It would almost be a losing proposition for quite some time (if not forever) in the off road/MX markets. Large risk with the potential of small, if any gain. 3-5% of the overall motorcycle market, perhaps, but the MX/off road market is tiny in comparison.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yeah the analyst was talking about the overall motorcycle market. MX/Off-Road is only a small portion of that. I highly doubt they would strictly enter the...
Yeah the analyst was talking about the overall motorcycle market. MX/Off-Road is only a small portion of that. I highly doubt they would strictly enter the MX/Off-Road market. They're already in the street market with the Spyder so it wouldn't be that far fetch for them to expand on their product line.

It would be cool for them to make a comeback. If a small boutique firm like TM can produce bikes and make a profit from it I'm sure BRP can figure it out. After all they have a lot more resources at their disposal than TM. Other article I read said they were investing 120 million at their Quebec Headquarters for production since the company keeps on growing so who knows what they have up their sleeves. The spokesperson for BRP said that motorcycles could be an option for the company.

I guess we'll see.
It would be cool. I agree, BRP is a company that could make it happen. Interesting topic.

Out of curiosity, who made the motors for Cannondale? I dont remember.
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2/24/2017 4:35pm
BRP/Can-Am could of easily bought an established company like the Husqvarna brand and simply re-badge it as their own but I don't think that's their style. If they get back in the market I'm pretty sure they'll put out a high quality product just like everything else they put out.

They invented the snowmobile and re-invented it back in the early 2000's with their REV chassis. Ever since then every other company has been copying them and trying to play catch up. They truly are innovators.

I would love to see with what they could come up with in the mx/off-road market.

TW85
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2/24/2017 4:53pm
I'd imagine if they did it would be street bikes to sell along side the spyder line, the off road segment is to small and the off road vehicles they do make are probably more profitable then mx bikes. Polaris just scrapped their Victory line of motorcycles which I'm sure makes brp doubt getting into the two wheel marketplace.
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2/24/2017 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:06pm
Here's another interesting article I just found https://goo.gl/vwI1Ma

They already have 4200 dealers in some 100+ countries.
Falcon
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2/24/2017 5:07pm
I'd certainly look at one. BRP makes some cool stuff and their engineering prowess is nothing to sneeze at.

The OP forgot to mention that they make LearJet and Canadair as well - more successful than Honda's aeronautical ventures. If you travel by air very much you've probably flown in one of their regional jets. BRP makes Sea-Doo, Can-Am, Bell Helicopters... If you've ever ridden the Monorail at Disneyland, that's from Bombardier as well.

I want one of these. Too much O$car for my blood, though:
EastFlorida
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2/24/2017 5:08pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:09pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
kzizok
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2/24/2017 5:22pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:24pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over.

Why would they need investors?
2/24/2017 5:25pm
Off brand junk. Id never own one.
bh84 wrote:
How exactly is Ski-Doo off-brand? Can-am is at the top with 4x4 and SxS, Spyder sales are high and Sea Doo dominates the PWC market. Company...
How exactly is Ski-Doo off-brand? Can-am is at the top with 4x4 and SxS, Spyder sales are high and Sea Doo dominates the PWC market. Company started in 1959. Definitely not off-brand
Lol. I consider most brands off brands that arent japanese...its sort of an inside joke we have at the shop. I wont retract my statement though. Their products are below par and a pain to work on. Id rate them a very small step above Polaris in terms of quality. I know Polaris does well too. I guess people like buying junk.
EastFlorida
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2/24/2017 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:26pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
kzizok wrote:
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over. Why...
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over.

Why would they need investors?
Yes, but you are still missing the point. Start up cost are beyond belief despite having experience in "internal combustion engines". Do you know what happened to BRP when they took the assets from OMC?

Dude, investors are your stock holders!!!
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2/24/2017 5:29pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
I don't know the history of Cannondale but pretty sure Cannondale is far from being BRP.

BRP has a lot more resources and knowledge at their disposal. They're already a well established company and already have everything in place to introduce bikes to the market. They already have the dealers and support network in place. They are already producing off-road products. Seriously what's adding another new product to a big company?

Total different ball game in my opinion.
mattyhamz2
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2/24/2017 5:31pm
Would be cool if they did, but I wouldn't even consider buying one until it was proven to be as good as the "Big 6"
kzizok
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2/24/2017 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:37pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
kzizok wrote:
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over. Why...
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over.

Why would they need investors?
Yes, but you are still missing the point. Start up cost are beyond belief despite having experience in "internal combustion engines". Do you know what happened...
Yes, but you are still missing the point. Start up cost are beyond belief despite having experience in "internal combustion engines". Do you know what happened to BRP when they took the assets from OMC?

Dude, investors are your stock holders!!!
Honestly, I don't. I may very well be missing the point.

Was OMC failing when they bought them out? How much of it was from the Cannondale influence? Still, it was out of their control.

Yeah, I know about the stock holders. For some reason I had it in my head that you were implying additional investors.
EastFlorida
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2/24/2017 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:34pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I don't know the history of Cannondale but pretty sure Cannondale is far from being BRP. BRP has a lot more resources and knowledge at their...
I don't know the history of Cannondale but pretty sure Cannondale is far from being BRP.

BRP has a lot more resources and knowledge at their disposal. They're already a well established company and already have everything in place to introduce bikes to the market. They already have the dealers and support network in place. They are already producing off-road products. Seriously what's adding another new product to a big company?

Total different ball game in my opinion.
Wrong, wrong, wrong... Small market, no "white space" available for BRP to make the investment worth it. Do some research, see how many "dirt bikes" are sold each year. What market share would it take to make the investment worthwhile. Who are you going to steal market from?

The reality is, they will not enter the competitive MX/Off Road market...
EastFlorida
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2/24/2017 5:36pm
kzizok wrote:
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over. Why...
There is a difference between building something of your own design (with more than enough proven track record) vs something you had no control over.

Why would they need investors?
Yes, but you are still missing the point. Start up cost are beyond belief despite having experience in "internal combustion engines". Do you know what happened...
Yes, but you are still missing the point. Start up cost are beyond belief despite having experience in "internal combustion engines". Do you know what happened to BRP when they took the assets from OMC?

Dude, investors are your stock holders!!!
kzizok wrote:
Honestly, I don't. I may very well be missing the point. Was OMC failing when they bought them out? How much of it was from the...
Honestly, I don't. I may very well be missing the point.

Was OMC failing when they bought them out? How much of it was from the Cannondale influence? Still, it was out of their control.

Yeah, I know about the stock holders. For some reason I had it in my head that you were implying additional investors.
OMC was an outboard engine manufacturer, nothing related to Cannondale...
2/24/2017 5:38pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 5:39pm
Off brand junk. Id never own one.
bh84 wrote:
How exactly is Ski-Doo off-brand? Can-am is at the top with 4x4 and SxS, Spyder sales are high and Sea Doo dominates the PWC market. Company...
How exactly is Ski-Doo off-brand? Can-am is at the top with 4x4 and SxS, Spyder sales are high and Sea Doo dominates the PWC market. Company started in 1959. Definitely not off-brand
And don't forget, they've already been making the engines for BMW, KTM and tons of other bikes
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2/24/2017 5:47pm
Falcon wrote:
I'd certainly look at one. BRP makes some cool stuff and their engineering prowess is nothing to sneeze at. The OP forgot to mention that they...
I'd certainly look at one. BRP makes some cool stuff and their engineering prowess is nothing to sneeze at.

The OP forgot to mention that they make LearJet and Canadair as well - more successful than Honda's aeronautical ventures. If you travel by air very much you've probably flown in one of their regional jets. BRP makes Sea-Doo, Can-Am, Bell Helicopters... If you've ever ridden the Monorail at Disneyland, that's from Bombardier as well.

I want one of these. Too much O$car for my blood, though:
Bombardier use to own BRP/Can-Am but they've been 2 separate companies since 2003 if I'm not mistaken.

Bombardier is a leading manufacturer of trains and airplanes. Douchenozzle/Hamilton is flying in one of their planes.

Hamilton flys around in a Bombardier Challenger 600




kzizok
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2/24/2017 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 6:23pm
OMC was an outboard engine manufacturer, nothing related to Cannondale...
Exactly what Im saying, had nothing to do with Cannondale, so that wouldnt influence whether or not they would develop their own bike.

Yeah, I know who OMC was. Heck, I got to take a tour of their plant that made the Corvette ZR 1 engines. The Cannondale failure had very little to do with the overall OMC failures. I just dont see that having much influence on not designing their own bikes.

But for me its moot, because I dont think they would do it anyway based on a very small, niche market. Belive it or not, I think we are saying the same thing.

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2/24/2017 6:10pm
Won't happen. The industry and investors saw what happened to Cannondale... They learned a big lesson when they bought OMC after they closed... Mistake...
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I don't know the history of Cannondale but pretty sure Cannondale is far from being BRP. BRP has a lot more resources and knowledge at their...
I don't know the history of Cannondale but pretty sure Cannondale is far from being BRP.

BRP has a lot more resources and knowledge at their disposal. They're already a well established company and already have everything in place to introduce bikes to the market. They already have the dealers and support network in place. They are already producing off-road products. Seriously what's adding another new product to a big company?

Total different ball game in my opinion.
Wrong, wrong, wrong... Small market, no "white space" available for BRP to make the investment worth it. Do some research, see how many "dirt bikes" are...
Wrong, wrong, wrong... Small market, no "white space" available for BRP to make the investment worth it. Do some research, see how many "dirt bikes" are sold each year. What market share would it take to make the investment worthwhile. Who are you going to steal market from?

The reality is, they will not enter the competitive MX/Off Road market...
I didn't say they would strictly enter the MX/Off-Road market. With all the different engines they have they could easily enter the commuter/urban bike market like the 200 KTM Duke or something like the Honda Grom.

The MX/Off-Road market is simply one part of the market.

Did you read the 2nd article I posted? It mentions that 82 per cent of dealers of motor sports vehicles sell motorcycles and would be interested in purchasing new products. BRP has more than 4,200 dealers in some 100 countries

Their products sell very well and if they see potential in the market you better believe they'll do it right.

I know I would buy domestic over Japanese, Austrian/Swedish, Italian, etc. if the option was made available to me. And I'm sure I'm not the only one either. It's not to say the other don't put out great products because they do and have done so for decades but I'd rather support a Canadian made product. Their Spyder is made in Quebec so who's to say the bikes wouldn't be made there. Either way it would still be made in North America if they decide to produce them in Mexico.

World class company with world class products.
Braaaphole
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2/24/2017 7:16pm
They did buy the division of Cannondale that built the bike and quad. So they have all the info from them which was pretty forward thinking for the time. It would make a good base to start off of and revise.
gsxr6
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2/24/2017 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 7:22pm
Braaaphole wrote:
They did buy the division of Cannondale that built the bike and quad. So they have all the info from them which was pretty forward thinking...
They did buy the division of Cannondale that built the bike and quad. So they have all the info from them which was pretty forward thinking for the time. It would make a good base to start off of and revise.
No it would not make a good base to start off. A clean slate is better. An 08 crf copy ( ala Christini) would be better. Copying the 1985 cr line would be better. A ds450 with one front wheel would be better. Nix that thought bro.

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