2016 KX450F blowup

kiwifan
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2/22/2016 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 2/29/2016 8:05pm
I am perplexed, I have had heavily modified Suzuki, KTM and Honda motors for years and never had one engine blowup...but my modded KX450F spewed its guts out. Now take this as gospel I am a meticulous maintainer of my bikes, they are highly maintained to the point of OCD ! I have not seen any evidence of metal in the oil prior to the failure. I also don't race mine on the limiter (all my bikes have mega midrange HP, you don't need to rev them hard anyway, unlike for arguments sake a 250F or a KTM350SXF) so I am confident it isn't maintenance, consistent high RPM/riding style that led to the failure.

I have canvased friends/non friends/dealers to see if this is a common occurrence and it doesn't seem to be the case, perhaps a one off weakness somewhere in the crank or some metal (from somewhere) in the oil (because it lost oil on the track I am not sure if there was an metal in the oil, I didn't think to check the dirt actually).

So long story short (!) I was wondering/interested if anyone else has heard of any problems with the Kawasaki 2016 450?

I am, at this point, 99% sure it is a one off failure.
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GuyB
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2/22/2016 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2016 12:23pm
You said modded. Maybe some of the parts you put into the mix didn't like each other? You also didn't say what kind of failure.
seth505
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2/22/2016 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2016 12:23pm
That sucks, sorry to hear. Maybe the crank happened to be balanced bad when built or some random occurrence like that?

What happened exactly to "spew it's guts out"?
kiwifan
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2/22/2016 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2016 12:34pm
GuyB wrote:
You said modded. Maybe some of the parts you put into the mix didn't like each other? You also didn't say what kind of failure.
I was trying not to make my long story longer lol ...I had piston, cam, vortech mapping, exhaust ...it failed at the crank. Left side main bearing failure more specifically, hence why we thought it didn't have anything to do specifically with the mods.

kiwifan
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2/22/2016 12:32pm
seth505 wrote:
That sucks, sorry to hear. Maybe the crank happened to be balanced bad when built or some random occurrence like that? What happened exactly to "spew...
That sucks, sorry to hear. Maybe the crank happened to be balanced bad when built or some random occurrence like that?

What happened exactly to "spew it's guts out"?
The shop thought it was a defective bearing, or not installed to correct tolerances/specs.

A hole appeared, broken cam chain and bent valves :-(

The Shop

2/22/2016 12:40pm
Sounds very much to me like you don't know what caused this. I'd check that first.
Ted722
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2/22/2016 12:49pm
I lost a crank bearing at the 30 hour mark on my bone stock '06 RMZ 450. Got it fixed (oem parts), sold it, and it went another 100 hours no issues.

I believe it was a one-off failure.
brimx153
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2/22/2016 12:50pm
sorry to hear that man . i have seen more KXF s blow over the year s than any others .KTM s run a close second . it s just what i ve seen . even tho i know the KTM fan boy s will say i am wrong .
Motodork
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2/22/2016 1:18pm
My crank took a dump too, lucky for me I always buy from the same dealer and pay a fair price so they were more than willing to go the extra mile for me. They took my ECM and plugged it into a brand new bike so they could read the total hours, then they called Kawi and got it covered under warranty. It did not cost me a dime.
jeffro503
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2/22/2016 1:22pm
seth505 wrote:
That sucks, sorry to hear. Maybe the crank happened to be balanced bad when built or some random occurrence like that? What happened exactly to "spew...
That sucks, sorry to hear. Maybe the crank happened to be balanced bad when built or some random occurrence like that?

What happened exactly to "spew it's guts out"?
kiwifan wrote:
The shop thought it was a defective bearing, or not installed to correct tolerances/specs.

A hole appeared, broken cam chain and bent valves :-(
Damn! Sorry to hear this Kiwi. That does not sound like a cheap fix!
Uncle Tony
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2/22/2016 1:30pm
Internal screen oil filter clogged with excess bond and gaack?
newmann
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2/22/2016 1:30pm
I have had main bearing cages crack and come apart around the rivets and go through the motor. Not a pretty sight. Sad

bish153
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2/22/2016 1:32pm
Well...can't you just go get a free bike from your dealer?
TeamGreen
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2/22/2016 1:51pm
Take this for what you will...

One of the best engine builders in the biz virtually INSISTS that more compression, hotter Cam's...etc. ...
Requires a better crank and bearings in the KXF.
DL
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2/22/2016 2:02pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Take this for what you will... One of the best engine builders in the biz virtually INSISTS that more compression, hotter Cam's...etc. ... Requires a better...
Take this for what you will...

One of the best engine builders in the biz virtually INSISTS that more compression, hotter Cam's...etc. ...
Requires a better crank and bearings in the KXF.
Bingo! Pretty much we won't build anything up without a proper crank. Some people want to take the risk but I've seen so many times what happens when a rod lets go.
2/22/2016 2:21pm
I'm going to guess you were running a higher comp piston as per your other builds?
Crush
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2/22/2016 2:24pm
Oh Kiwi, that sux, sorry to hear bud!!!
2/22/2016 2:30pm
newmann wrote:
I have had main bearing cages crack and come apart around the rivets and go through the motor. Not a pretty sight. :( [img]http://bindayel.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bearings1.jpg[/img]
I have had main bearing cages crack and come apart around the rivets and go through the motor. Not a pretty sight. Sad

I know one high dollar brand that comes with mostly Taiwanese bearings with a couple of German bearings in crucial points. Seen the mains deteriorate prematurely also with the chrome flaking off the races of a related co brand. At least the noise gives you some indication that shits about to hit the fan before hand in that case
JM485
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2/22/2016 2:33pm
Motodork wrote:
My crank took a dump too, lucky for me I always buy from the same dealer and pay a fair price so they were more than...
My crank took a dump too, lucky for me I always buy from the same dealer and pay a fair price so they were more than willing to go the extra mile for me. They took my ECM and plugged it into a brand new bike so they could read the total hours, then they called Kawi and got it covered under warranty. It did not cost me a dime.
Let me translate this:

"I buy from a dealer I constantly stick up for on here, and since I voluntarily pay way over what I should for each bike they were nice enough to cover it under warranty like they are supposed to. I can't belive they took the time to unbolt my ecu and read the hours on the bike and determine whether it was a defect or not, I'm so glad I overplayed and they did their job"

You're welcome.Laughing
2/22/2016 2:34pm
All the proper steps in the world still cant prevent occasional failures...

OEM kawi main bearings have had occasional failures even stock
Boarddesign
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2/22/2016 2:50pm
They weren't '16's but in '14 my brother in law bought 9 bikes (Kawi) and three of the first 4 all let go at around 13 hours (National level A riders). They eventually would just break them in and take them to Dasa for Carrillo Rods and all the goods (they were breaking rods and sometimes cases due to rod)… I don't really think the motors have been through too much change since then no? Maybe cam / piston / mapping changes?
Beast666
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2/22/2016 2:50pm
Motodork wrote:
My crank took a dump too, lucky for me I always buy from the same dealer and pay a fair price so they were more than...
My crank took a dump too, lucky for me I always buy from the same dealer and pay a fair price so they were more than willing to go the extra mile for me. They took my ECM and plugged it into a brand new bike so they could read the total hours, then they called Kawi and got it covered under warranty. It did not cost me a dime.
JM485 wrote:
Let me translate this: "I buy from a dealer I constantly stick up for on here, and since I voluntarily pay way over what I should...
Let me translate this:

"I buy from a dealer I constantly stick up for on here, and since I voluntarily pay way over what I should for each bike they were nice enough to cover it under warranty like they are supposed to. I can't belive they took the time to unbolt my ecu and read the hours on the bike and determine whether it was a defect or not, I'm so glad I overplayed and they did their job"

You're welcome.Laughing
If you think you are being funny you are not.

I can honestly say first hand that Kawi will bend over backwards to help out the customer. I have seen them actually pay for parts when the customer put the oil filter in backwards on a 2015 KX450 and the customer even stated that they screwed up.

Now if you dealer won't try to help you out perhaps you need to find a new dealer or stop being a dick to them beating them up on everything from a new bike to a spark plug.

You're Welcome Tongue
2/22/2016 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2016 3:03pm
Could a cam/valve failure have caused the broken chain and bearing failure on the cam side? Just a thought. Manual chain tensioner or spring loaded?
2/22/2016 3:06pm
I bought a brute force 750 new in 2005. After 10 hours I took it to the dealer for its first service. 6 months later I got it back with a new motor, the dealer told me it had porous aluminum cases( oil was seeping rite through the case). Sometimes you just get the (ONE)!!!
JM485
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2/22/2016 3:16pm
Beast666 wrote:
If you think you are being funny you are not. I can honestly say first hand that Kawi will bend over backwards to help out the...
If you think you are being funny you are not.

I can honestly say first hand that Kawi will bend over backwards to help out the customer. I have seen them actually pay for parts when the customer put the oil filter in backwards on a 2015 KX450 and the customer even stated that they screwed up.

Now if you dealer won't try to help you out perhaps you need to find a new dealer or stop being a dick to them beating them up on everything from a new bike to a spark plug.

You're Welcome Tongue
Yep, you definately missed the joke there dude. Go check dorkbro's post history and then you'll understand I'm just having a little fun here.
2/22/2016 3:57pm
Stuff happens. Rebuild it bigger, badder, faster etc. circle of speed.
kiwifan
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2/22/2016 4:34pm
brimx153 wrote:
sorry to hear that man . i have seen more KXF s blow over the year s than any others .KTM s run a close second...
sorry to hear that man . i have seen more KXF s blow over the year s than any others .KTM s run a close second . it s just what i ve seen . even tho i know the KTM fan boy s will say i am wrong .
well its weird all the 2016 Kawi 450 owners I have talked to have had no issues...the only issues I had with KTM's were electrical and some non driveline failures ...but that was back in 2012-2103
kiwifan
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2/22/2016 4:38pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Take this for what you will... One of the best engine builders in the biz virtually INSISTS that more compression, hotter Cam's...etc. ... Requires a better...
Take this for what you will...

One of the best engine builders in the biz virtually INSISTS that more compression, hotter Cam's...etc. ...
Requires a better crank and bearings in the KXF.
Now thats very interesting!!! Thanks TG ... I have got a new engine being assembled at the moment and we did talk about doing that and now we definitely will as I know you know your stuff!! Smile
kiwifan
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2/22/2016 4:43pm
Thanks to all the guys here with feedback and commiserations, appreciate it....this is what I love about Vital. Smile

It seems the KXF bearings and cranks are more suspect than I was led to believe! Sad

kiwifan
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2/22/2016 4:50pm

Mods: Tokyo high comp piston, Tokyo vavles and springs, Tokyo hotter cams, Vortech ECU, Tokyo 10 ignition maps, Hinson clutch, Tokyo head work, engine vent kit, FMF exhaust
2/22/2016 4:52pm
Always upgrade what transfers the power if you're creating more power.. Bikes don't use components on the same level as the automotive market where an LS or Modular / Coyote engine can handle several hundred more horsepower on stock internals. It seems like the trend, especially with the air fork " revolution " is to use the least expensive and cost effective materials / parts / design possible.

Rebuild with a full bottom end and you will be fine. Especially if you're light on the revs and abuse like you have stated.

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