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2015 YZ300?

Bulldog

C100_1979_250b_jump_sparland

Posts: 158

Joined: 7/21/2009

Location: Smithfield, VA USA

6/23/2013 7:33 PM

Talking to someone in the know (factory related) this weekend and it was revealed that Yamaha is paying attention to the offroad community and the continued and growing success of the YZ250. There was a strong "inference" that there will be a new 2-Stroke coming out of Japan for 2015. Offroad only? YZ300 or maybe WR300? YZ250DI? No details yet....

The numbers in offroad support the 2-Stroke and why Yamaha still offers them. Here is the tale of the tape in the offroad world according to the VCHSS stats keepers:



Other: Husaberg, Beta, TM and BMW. Again, those that are offering 2-Strokes are seeing their numbers grow...

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

JW381

C100_f_15_20terrain_20follow_rory_20trappe_1400444703

Posts: 6588

Joined: 7/21/2009

Location: Eugene, OR USA

6/23/2013 7:42 PM

Get outta here with your data! This is Vital, we don't like yer kind!

Good numbers, the offroad world is definitely well lubricated with premix.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

zookie

C100

Posts: 254

Joined: 8/23/2008

Location: Guilford, CT USA

6/23/2013 7:46 PM

Interesting data. What is VCHSS?

bullpen658

C100_040214vaction_1396478712

Posts: 542

Joined: 5/3/2013

Location: Fresno, CA USA

6/23/2013 7:48 PM

I would be sooooooo fast on a two stroke 300. It would be so flickable. I'd whip it over every jump and bump.

slipdog

C100_dog_1404087740

Posts: 3452

Joined: 7/25/2009

Location: Nor Cal, CA USA

6/23/2013 8:00 PM

I'm building a YZ300 right now, should have the cylinder back from Millennium on Tuesday. She gon' be faaasssttttt!

Sometimes I make jokes, I'm not smart enough to explain them so it's on you if you're too dumb to understand them...

Falcon

C100_mein1983_1400357958

Posts: 767

Joined: 11/16/2011

Location: Fallbrook, CA USA

6/23/2013 8:20 PM

I really doubt we'll see a YZ300 tuned specifically for woods, although Yamaha has been known to tweak an existing quad to suit XC racing. If there is a new 2-stroke coming, my guess is that it will be another 250. Most likely an MX one that could have a twin brother with a wide-ratio tranny, softer suspension and handguards.

BAMX

C100_last_dog_2013_8_1374424287

Posts: 1558

Joined: 1/22/2012

Location: Temecula, CA USA

6/23/2013 8:45 PM

I don't believe those graphs. They look way high on numbers of Suzuki's. I am usually one of 2-3 out of 300. KTM is by far the biggest and growing.

KICKERMAN360

C100_1

Posts: 133

Joined: 5/30/2012

Location: AUS

6/23/2013 9:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/23/2013 9:04 PM

BAMX wrote: I don't believe those graphs. They look way high on numbers of Suzuki's. I am usually one of 2-3 out of 300. KTM is by far the biggest and growing.

I agree. What kinds of bikes are they talking about? Since these figures are for hare scrambles, it's of no surprise to see a) a high number of KTM bikes and b) high 2 stroke figures.

FI2T

C100_beverly_hills_ninja_ps02

Posts: 68

Joined: 10/23/2012

Location: Hurricane, UT USA

6/23/2013 9:08 PM

Fix the vibe's, 5002t in a new frame is what I want. Look at the market for all the 500af and sf frame conversions, It would sell!!

cwtoyota

C100_avatar_scrub

Posts: 104

Joined: 3/11/2013

Location: Tacoma, WA USA

6/23/2013 9:40 PM

I've had a YZ300 for a year now and I love it.

If you're racing the Vet class, 450 class, Open class or anything off-road it's a great bike. The 450F is still a slight advantage, but they don't yard me on the start like a stock YZ250.

steed 2.0

C100_dalai_lama_kill_them_with_kindness_1379715674

Posts: 1197

Joined: 9/27/2012

Location: NLD

6/24/2013 1:43 AM

they move slow at Yamaha, isn't that hard to design a 300 cylinder and use their 250f frame/ plastic etc

yz 360

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense" ~ Tom Clancy

Groove Podcast 28 - David August

Derpin' DJ

C100_danger_5_2_1395773311

Posts: 4340

Joined: 5/27/2011

Location: AUS

6/24/2013 2:06 AM

Data from one club does not represent the offroad world

Bulldog

C100_1979_250b_jump_sparland

Posts: 158

Joined: 7/21/2009

Location: Smithfield, VA USA

6/24/2013 4:47 AM

VCHSS: Virginia Championship Hare Scramble Series
Establish: 1984
Average Rider Turnout Per Round: 425+ (Bikes only)
Rounds: 15

This is just some information from one locality from our place on earth. The information was for your intrpretation only. Figured someone out there would find this interesting...there is a need for 2-Strokes and those that are producing them are selling thim on the east coast of the USA.

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

Frodad78

C100_img_20130712_183400_1374071301

Posts: 697

Joined: 1/11/2012

Location: Dallas, TX USA

6/24/2013 5:36 AM

Wait, what 2-stroke is Suzuki selling in the United States?

Is this graph illustrating units sold or what the current people in your club are riding? Must be alot of dudes hammering around the woods on RMXs! Wouldn't surprise me actually, those things were beasts.

Bulldog

C100_1979_250b_jump_sparland

Posts: 158

Joined: 7/21/2009

Location: Smithfield, VA USA

6/24/2013 7:27 AM

First chart is a snapshot of brands raced in the series, both 2 and 4 Stroke.

Second chart is 2-Stroke vs. 4-Stroke regardless of brand.

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

Harry_Gray

C100_superstition_mountain_imperial_valley

Posts: 569

Joined: 10/6/2011

Location: Texoma region, OK USA

6/24/2013 5:19 PM

Whether it would be a YZ 300 or a WR 300; just the same I'd like to see that idea come to fruition and put on the showroom floors...

mcopsey

C100

Posts: 417

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

6/24/2013 5:31 PM

Spent a long time at the dealer meeting telling our rep the same thing. Would love to see it happen.

Mxracer24

C100_p9j0860_std

Posts: 132

Joined: 4/28/2009

Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI USA

6/24/2013 6:06 PM

The Rock

C100_120386120_1232596374

Posts: 4323

Joined: 3/21/2007

Location: HAIKU, HI USA

6/24/2013 6:07 PM

The new 300 CC class in Europe might add fuel to the development fire.

"My philosophy is to have a really good time and never to let anything stop me from doing what I want to do.

Michel Petrucciani

GuyB

C100_052614guyb_1401127006

Posts: 22198

Joined: 7/10/2006

Location: Wherever I may roam, CA USA

Administrator

6/24/2013 6:51 PM

A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

neverwasfastenuf

C100_c100_1391279764

Posts: 3821

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

6/24/2013 10:14 PM

Not that KTM is a slacker on development or anything, but a little competition is always a good thing.

mynewcr250

C100_jakewisdom_1367774019

Posts: 681

Joined: 10/22/2012

Location: CA, USA

6/24/2013 11:01 PM

i wanna see a 350....

CamP

C100_139826380_1291095094

Posts: 6651

Joined: 8/16/2006

Location: Colleyville, TX USA

6/25/2013 5:11 AM

GuyB wrote: A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

I hope this gains enough momentum to get the Japanese' attention.

A Japanese built 300cc 2T would probably be the bike that would convince me to buy new again.

newmann

C100_614585238_1207253287

Posts: 13724

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

6/25/2013 7:30 AM

GuyB wrote: A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

Race-World.com

C100_gp_shirt_1380965148

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Location: GBR

6/25/2013 7:47 AM

The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

burn1986

C100_2015_yz_1401991639

Posts: 6066

Joined: 4/16/2010

Location: Hell, LA USA

6/25/2013 7:51 AM

newmann wrote: It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

Yep. The 2-stroke is just a more efficient and fun bike to ride. It hasn't gone away, and someone like Luongo is just anti-establishment enough to see that.

Crush

C100_tumblr_muriyfrnsx1r46py4o1_1280_1381979943

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Location: Sydney, AUS

6/25/2013 7:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/25/2013 7:58 AM

burn1986 wrote: Yep. The 2-stroke is just a more efficient and fun bike to ride. It hasn't gone away, and someone like Luongo is just anti-establishment enough to see that.

Fun - Yes

Efficient - No

I love my 300, but my bros 450 is easier to ride!

Cheers,

Crush

slipdog

C100_dog_1404087740

Posts: 3452

Joined: 7/25/2009

Location: Nor Cal, CA USA

6/25/2013 8:03 AM

Race-World.com wrote: The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

I wouldn't be surprised to see KTM make a race specific 300 soon, just like their 150. Instead of a punched out 250 (72mm x 72mm) they'll make something with a better bore to stroke ratio like 70mm x 78mm.

Sometimes I make jokes, I'm not smart enough to explain them so it's on you if you're too dumb to understand them...

neverwasfastenuf

C100_c100_1391279764

Posts: 3821

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

6/25/2013 8:40 AM

Race-World.com wrote: The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

slipdog wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see KTM make a race specific 300 soon, just like their 150. Instead of a punched out 250 (72mm x 72mm) they'll make something with a better bore to stroke ratio like 70mm x 78mm.

Nah, you know that those orange bikes just get bold new graphics every year.



If KTM did that the others better come out swinging from the start with their version or get left way behind.

GuyB

C100_052614guyb_1401127006

Posts: 22198

Joined: 7/10/2006

Location: Wherever I may roam, CA USA

Administrator

6/25/2013 9:25 AM

newmann wrote: It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

I've never said there's no interest. If I thought there was no interest, I wouldn't have posted the press release above. So lumping me in with whatever media you're talking about is misguided.

Consumers want lots of things. They want bitchen bikes. They want them to be cheap to buy and maintain. They want them to be fun.

I've said many times that given the current set of rules, two-strokes in the pro class make zero sense. I still feel that way. The guys that try it aren't thinking of podiums. Or top tens. They're hoping to make the show, and that's about it. That's not racing, that's (barely) participating. For amateurs, it's a different story.

If two-strokes and four-strokes are going to play together in the pro class, there needs to be class modification. That has to be supported at the manufacturer level, and the powers that be at MX Sports AND the FIM. There was nothing new in the latest batch of class clarifications from the FIM, which means the answer (for now) is pretty much the same as it has been for the last several years. I did, however, think the line about continuing discussions with the manufacturers about two-strokes was interesting.

I think there could (and should) be a way to fix the classes and have dissimilar engine types race together competitively. Sports car racing figured it out. So did drag racing. MX should be able to do the same. Going up to 450cc for four-strokes (in what was then the 250 class) made sense when the rules were first constructed. Now? Maybe not so much.
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