2015 YZ300?

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Bulldog

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6/23/2013 7:33 PM

Talking to someone in the know (factory related) this weekend and it was revealed that Yamaha is paying attention to the offroad community and the continued and growing success of the YZ250. There was a strong "inference" that there will be a new 2-Stroke coming out of Japan for 2015. Offroad only? YZ300 or maybe WR300? YZ250DI? No details yet....

The numbers in offroad support the 2-Stroke and why Yamaha still offers them. Here is the tale of the tape in the offroad world according to the VCHSS stats keepers:



Other: Husaberg, Beta, TM and BMW. Again, those that are offering 2-Strokes are seeing their numbers grow...

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

JW381

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6/23/2013 7:42 PM

Get outta here with your data! This is Vital, we don't like yer kind!

Good numbers, the offroad world is definitely well lubricated with premix.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

zookie

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6/23/2013 7:46 PM

Interesting data. What is VCHSS?

bullpen658

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6/23/2013 7:48 PM

I would be sooooooo fast on a two stroke 300. It would be so flickable. I'd whip it over every jump and bump.

slipdog

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6/23/2013 8:00 PM

I'm building a YZ300 right now, should have the cylinder back from Millennium on Tuesday. She gon' be faaasssttttt!

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee"

Falcon

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6/23/2013 8:20 PM

I really doubt we'll see a YZ300 tuned specifically for woods, although Yamaha has been known to tweak an existing quad to suit XC racing. If there is a new 2-stroke coming, my guess is that it will be another 250. Most likely an MX one that could have a twin brother with a wide-ratio tranny, softer suspension and handguards.

BAMX

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6/23/2013 8:45 PM

I don't believe those graphs. They look way high on numbers of Suzuki's. I am usually one of 2-3 out of 300. KTM is by far the biggest and growing.

KICKERMAN360

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6/23/2013 9:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/23/2013 9:04 PM

BAMX wrote:

I don't believe those graphs. They look way high on numbers of Suzuki's. I am usually one of 2-3 out of 300. KTM is by far the biggest and growing.

I agree. What kinds of bikes are they talking about? Since these figures are for hare scrambles, it's of no surprise to see a) a high number of KTM bikes and b) high 2 stroke figures.

FI2T

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6/23/2013 9:08 PM

Fix the vibe's, 5002t in a new frame is what I want. Look at the market for all the 500af and sf frame conversions, It would sell!!

cwtoyota

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6/23/2013 9:40 PM

I've had a YZ300 for a year now and I love it.

If you're racing the Vet class, 450 class, Open class or anything off-road it's a great bike. The 450F is still a slight advantage, but they don't yard me on the start like a stock YZ250.

steed 2.0

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6/24/2013 1:43 AM

they move slow at Yamaha, isn't that hard to design a 300 cylinder and use their 250f frame/ plastic etc

yz 360

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Derpin' DJ

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6/24/2013 2:06 AM

Data from one club does not represent the offroad world

Bulldog

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6/24/2013 4:47 AM

VCHSS: Virginia Championship Hare Scramble Series
Establish: 1984
Average Rider Turnout Per Round: 425+ (Bikes only)
Rounds: 15

This is just some information from one locality from our place on earth. The information was for your intrpretation only. Figured someone out there would find this interesting...there is a need for 2-Strokes and those that are producing them are selling thim on the east coast of the USA.

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

Frodad78

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6/24/2013 5:36 AM

Wait, what 2-stroke is Suzuki selling in the United States?

Is this graph illustrating units sold or what the current people in your club are riding? Must be alot of dudes hammering around the woods on RMXs! Wouldn't surprise me actually, those things were beasts.

Bulldog

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6/24/2013 7:27 AM

First chart is a snapshot of brands raced in the series, both 2 and 4 Stroke.

Second chart is 2-Stroke vs. 4-Stroke regardless of brand.

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

Harry_Gray

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6/24/2013 5:19 PM

Whether it would be a YZ 300 or a WR 300; just the same I'd like to see that idea come to fruition and put on the showroom floors...

mcopsey

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6/24/2013 5:31 PM

Spent a long time at the dealer meeting telling our rep the same thing. Would love to see it happen.

Mxracer24

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6/24/2013 6:06 PM

The Rock

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6/24/2013 6:07 PM

The new 300 CC class in Europe might add fuel to the development fire.

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Michel Petrucciani

GuyB

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6/24/2013 6:51 PM

A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

neverwasfastenuf

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6/24/2013 10:14 PM

Not that KTM is a slacker on development or anything, but a little competition is always a good thing.

mynewcr250

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6/24/2013 11:01 PM

i wanna see a 350....

CamP

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6/25/2013 5:11 AM

GuyB wrote:

A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

I hope this gains enough momentum to get the Japanese' attention.

A Japanese built 300cc 2T would probably be the bike that would convince me to buy new again.

newmann

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6/25/2013 7:30 AM

GuyB wrote:

A new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship to be launched in 2014
FUNCHAL (Portugal), 25 June 2013 - After a meeting between manufacturers and FIM, Youthstream and FIM Europe are glad to announce the start of a new European 300cc 2 stroke Championship next season. All the parties agreed that this series is likely to have a great success and it will be the base to take part in the FIM Motocross World Championship.

The market demand of the 2 stroke for Motocross is increasing rapidly. Youthstream plans to hold between 6 to 7 races together with the MXGP (like it is already done for the 125cc and 250cc). The suggested capacity for the technical rules is going to be from 200cc to 300cc 2 stroke.

Youthstream and FIM Europe believe a large number of riders is going to participate in this Championship, especially taking into account that the FIM MX3 World Championship will stop in 2014 and for sure there will be many riders willing to enter the new European 300cc 2 stroke series.

It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

Race-World.com

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6/25/2013 7:47 AM

The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

burn1986

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6/25/2013 7:51 AM

newmann wrote:

It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

Yep. The 2-stroke is just a more efficient and fun bike to ride. It hasn't gone away, and someone like Luongo is just anti-establishment enough to see that.

Crush

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6/25/2013 7:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/25/2013 7:58 AM

burn1986 wrote:

Yep. The 2-stroke is just a more efficient and fun bike to ride. It hasn't gone away, and someone like Luongo is just anti-establishment enough to see that.

Fun - Yes

Efficient - No

I love my 300, but my bros 450 is easier to ride!

Cheers, Crush

slipdog

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6/25/2013 8:03 AM

Race-World.com wrote:

The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

I wouldn't be surprised to see KTM make a race specific 300 soon, just like their 150. Instead of a punched out 250 (72mm x 72mm) they'll make something with a better bore to stroke ratio like 70mm x 78mm.

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee"

neverwasfastenuf

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6/25/2013 8:40 AM

Race-World.com wrote:

The majority of the machines will be 250cc I'd have thought?

slipdog wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see KTM make a race specific 300 soon, just like their 150. Instead of a punched out 250 (72mm x 72mm) they'll make something with a better bore to stroke ratio like 70mm x 78mm.

Nah, you know that those orange bikes just get bold new graphics every year.



If KTM did that the others better come out swinging from the start with their version or get left way behind.

GuyB

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6/25/2013 9:25 AM

newmann wrote:

It's funny, sad...but funny, to see these press releases being issued amongst all of the "there's no interest" comments from the powers that be and the moto media here in the US. It's almost as if those in these positions here were glad to see the sport split and circling the drain while trying to force feed the overweight 4 stroke to us all. Some of us tried it, some of us didn't like it. Just keep preaching it though and all those 2 stroke kooks will go away. Pay no attention to all the three decades of history that was the 125 class.

"Get over it, it isn't coming back"

I've never said there's no interest. If I thought there was no interest, I wouldn't have posted the press release above. So lumping me in with whatever media you're talking about is misguided.

Consumers want lots of things. They want bitchen bikes. They want them to be cheap to buy and maintain. They want them to be fun.

I've said many times that given the current set of rules, two-strokes in the pro class make zero sense. I still feel that way. The guys that try it aren't thinking of podiums. Or top tens. They're hoping to make the show, and that's about it. That's not racing, that's (barely) participating. For amateurs, it's a different story.

If two-strokes and four-strokes are going to play together in the pro class, there needs to be class modification. That has to be supported at the manufacturer level, and the powers that be at MX Sports AND the FIM. There was nothing new in the latest batch of class clarifications from the FIM, which means the answer (for now) is pretty much the same as it has been for the last several years. I did, however, think the line about continuing discussions with the manufacturers about two-strokes was interesting.

I think there could (and should) be a way to fix the classes and have dissimilar engine types race together competitively. Sports car racing figured it out. So did drag racing. MX should be able to do the same. Going up to 450cc for four-strokes (in what was then the 250 class) made sense when the rules were first constructed. Now? Maybe not so much.