2015 CRF450R

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kiwifan

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1/22/2014 3:50 PM

Wtih all the reviews lambasting the CRF450 for its lack of HP which seems to be the main basis on whether a bike wins a motocross magazine shootout these days, does Honda up its power to KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki levels for 2015 or does it sell more than enough units and dont give a toss if it wins or not???

Be interesting to see what they do, I dont think its due for a major overhaul until 2016?

Current ride: 2017 CRF450RX and 2017 TC250
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500
Road bike: 2016 Ninja H2R - looking to replace...not sure yet what to get

ihatemotocross

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1/22/2014 4:41 PM

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

kiwifan

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1/22/2014 4:50 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

I agree but accordiing to all the magazines thats not true though....lol

You wonder if the Factory Hondas arent all they crack up to be at the moment....?

Current ride: 2017 CRF450RX and 2017 TC250
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500
Road bike: 2016 Ninja H2R - looking to replace...not sure yet what to get

ihatemotocross

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1/22/2014 5:29 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but accordiing to all the magazines thats not true though....lol

You wonder if the Factory Hondas arent all they crack up to be at the moment....?

What Honda MX bike in the past 10 years has been a fire breather??

The last one that comes to mind was the 97-99 CR250s and even that motor was tamed down to be more broad for 2000 & 2001.

Relatively speaking, Hondas theory on how a bike should behave has always been pretty neutral, IMO.

rolandk

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1/22/2014 5:35 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

+1. I think Honda is aiming more for the average rider than a national pro, and a national pro can easily mod their bike into whatever they want.

Bustin' berms like girls have germs

BobPA

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1/22/2014 5:46 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

I truly doubt this unnamed Geico ride runs a completely stock motor. I've ridden a stock '13 Honda 450 and they are absolutely pathetic up top, I am just a yocal A rider and I wanted more power out of it.... At least more overrev. I rode one with a pipe and remap and it was much better, but still weak IMO. People who make the claim that you can't ride a 450 to it's potential have a point...but if the power is not where you need it, then it is useless.

My slightly modded KTM 350 is honestly faster and has more usable power than a stock 2013 Honda. My bro who owns the Honda admits to it, shamefully haha.

Jason Anderson FTW

TeamGreen

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1/22/2014 6:18 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

Uh, no.

The 2015 v 2013/14 450 is gonna be like the 1980 CR250 v the '78/'79.

But, I could be wrong.

I'm wondering "what", EACTLY, you're calling a "Stock Geico" bike...?

"Pearls and swine bereft of me. Long and weary my road has been."
Chris Cornell, 1964-2017

rocketsocks26

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1/22/2014 6:35 PM

There's no GEICO rider riding a stock motor.lol. that was pretty good. If it was a kawi , that statement has a chance, I'm a vet A Rider n I like the Honda, but not stock. With an exhaust cams, remap, its a really good bike. Stock, no way!

JW381

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1/22/2014 6:42 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but accordiing to all the magazines thats not true though....lol

You wonder if the Factory Hondas arent all they crack up to be at the moment....?

ihatemotocross wrote:

What Honda MX bike in the past 10 years has been a fire breather??

The last one that comes to mind was the 97-99 CR250s and even that motor was tamed down to be more broad for 2000 & 2001.

Relatively speaking, Hondas theory on how a bike should behave has always been pretty neutral, IMO.

Spot on. I came off an '09 YZ250 with a fire breather of a motor right out of the box and hopped on my '04 CR250R which people call a "dog" (kind of like what kiwifan is saying about the current CRF) and I'm way faster on my CR. It has great power with the Air Stryker carb, but it's not on the verge of getting away from me everywhere. That, in turn, allows me to ride it harder without worrying about getting whiskey throttled into oblivion.

Would that work for a fast pro? Probably not, he'd prefer a modded YZ or RM, but that's your point exactly. 90% of riders are just fine with the amount of power all the bikes make.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

ihatemotocross

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1/22/2014 6:56 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

TeamGreen wrote:

Uh, no.

The 2015 v 2013/14 450 is gonna be like the 1980 CR250 v the '78/'79.

But, I could be wrong.

I'm wondering "what", EACTLY, you're calling a "Stock Geico" bike...?

I can't find the post since ive been a long time lurker but I swear I saw GuyB say that Geico or one of the Honda teams had one of their riders test a stock bike and they said they fell in love with it because it was easy to ride..

I also read that Tomacs motor is pretty stock too..I mean im sure it has all the bits and goodies to make it "Factory" but its power delivery is pretty close to stock, if not stock.

user760a

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1/22/2014 6:56 PM

If only they had three mufflers...now that would be great.

stfu & ride

kiwifan

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1/22/2014 6:59 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but accordiing to all the magazines thats not true though....lol

You wonder if the Factory Hondas arent all they crack up to be at the moment....?

ihatemotocross wrote:

What Honda MX bike in the past 10 years has been a fire breather??

The last one that comes to mind was the 97-99 CR250s and even that motor was tamed down to be more broad for 2000 & 2001.

Relatively speaking, Hondas theory on how a bike should behave has always been pretty neutral, IMO.

JW381 wrote:

Spot on. I came off an '09 YZ250 with a fire breather of a motor right out of the box and hopped on my '04 CR250R which people call a "dog" (kind of like what kiwifan is saying about the current CRF) and I'm way faster on my CR. It has great power with the Air Stryker carb, but it's not on the verge of getting away from me everywhere. That, in turn, allows me to ride it harder without worrying about getting whiskey throttled into oblivion.

Would that work for a fast pro? Probably not, he'd prefer a modded YZ or RM, but that's your point exactly. 90% of riders are just fine with the amount of power all the bikes make.

I agree but does that mean that the magazines are only focused on the winner being a bike thats good for a pro? Thats how I see it....seems to me that if its a 'average' rider then the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's are not the best bike for them?

But as a poster said above I doubt Honda will ever make a fire breathing CRF450

Current ride: 2017 CRF450RX and 2017 TC250
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500
Road bike: 2016 Ninja H2R - looking to replace...not sure yet what to get

JW381

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1/22/2014 7:00 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but does that mean that the magazines are only focused on the winner being a bike thats good for a pro? Thats how I see it....seems to me that if its a 'average' rider then the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's are not the best bike for them?

But as a poster said above I doubt Honda will ever make a fire breathing CRF450

I think they know HP sells. I think the average rider probably doesn't know what's good for him, hence the reason he's an average rider.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

kiwifan

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1/22/2014 7:03 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but accordiing to all the magazines thats not true though....lol

You wonder if the Factory Hondas arent all they crack up to be at the moment....?

ihatemotocross wrote:

What Honda MX bike in the past 10 years has been a fire breather??

The last one that comes to mind was the 97-99 CR250s and even that motor was tamed down to be more broad for 2000 & 2001.

Relatively speaking, Hondas theory on how a bike should behave has always been pretty neutral, IMO.

Sorry I mean in my response that the magazines prefer the high HP bikes, no one is going to win if it doesnt make high HP, some one above mentioned MXA, they made they very clear....be a interesting question to say to them if the Honda had 1-3 HP less (rather than 5-7) then would it win the shootout? lol

Current ride: 2017 CRF450RX and 2017 TC250
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500
Road bike: 2016 Ninja H2R - looking to replace...not sure yet what to get

kiwifan

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1/22/2014 7:03 PM

JW381 wrote:

Spot on. I came off an '09 YZ250 with a fire breather of a motor right out of the box and hopped on my '04 CR250R which people call a "dog" (kind of like what kiwifan is saying about the current CRF) and I'm way faster on my CR. It has great power with the Air Stryker carb, but it's not on the verge of getting away from me everywhere. That, in turn, allows me to ride it harder without worrying about getting whiskey throttled into oblivion.

Would that work for a fast pro? Probably not, he'd prefer a modded YZ or RM, but that's your point exactly. 90% of riders are just fine with the amount of power all the bikes make.

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but does that mean that the magazines are only focused on the winner being a bike thats good for a pro? Thats how I see it....seems to me that if its a 'average' rider then the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's are not the best bike for them?

But as a poster said above I doubt Honda will ever make a fire breathing CRF450

JW381 wrote:

I think they know HP sells. I think the average rider probably doesn't know what's good for him, hence the reason he's an average rider.

Good point....

Current ride: 2017 CRF450RX and 2017 TC250
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500
Road bike: 2016 Ninja H2R - looking to replace...not sure yet what to get

Crush

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1/22/2014 7:04 PM

JW381 wrote:

I think they know HP sells. I think the average rider probably doesn't know what's good for him, hence the reason he's an average rider.

Agree... My bro's RMZ450 is the best handling bike I've ever ridden but like my CRF there's just so much motor. Fuck up and you're done.

Hence I got a 350!

Cheers, Crush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ihatemotocross

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1/22/2014 7:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/22/2014 7:06 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

What Honda MX bike in the past 10 years has been a fire breather??

The last one that comes to mind was the 97-99 CR250s and even that motor was tamed down to be more broad for 2000 & 2001.

Relatively speaking, Hondas theory on how a bike should behave has always been pretty neutral, IMO.

JW381 wrote:

Spot on. I came off an '09 YZ250 with a fire breather of a motor right out of the box and hopped on my '04 CR250R which people call a "dog" (kind of like what kiwifan is saying about the current CRF) and I'm way faster on my CR. It has great power with the Air Stryker carb, but it's not on the verge of getting away from me everywhere. That, in turn, allows me to ride it harder without worrying about getting whiskey throttled into oblivion.

Would that work for a fast pro? Probably not, he'd prefer a modded YZ or RM, but that's your point exactly. 90% of riders are just fine with the amount of power all the bikes make.

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but does that mean that the magazines are only focused on the winner being a bike thats good for a pro? Thats how I see it....seems to me that if its a 'average' rider then the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's are not the best bike for them?

But as a poster said above I doubt Honda will ever make a fire breathing CRF450

1% of the worlds population is good enough to qualify for a national or a GP..and that excludes most local pros/A racers , depending on the region of course. That 1% of riders doesnt care what the magazines say because the way they ride and setup their bikes is alien to mortals like us

Even when magazines refer to a bike being better for pro riders, they're referring to local A guys..most of which couldn't even qualify for the C class at Lorettas.

Magazines in America give advice to the lowest common denominator of motocross rider..the weekend warrior who rides practice or the occasional racer

mx_563

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1/22/2014 7:05 PM

a bit OT but with JCR getting out of desert racing and into woods racing (with Honda's support), are we going to see a newer sleeker, more woods ready CRF450X any time soon???? The X is a great bike as it is, but it would certainly benefit from a diet before entering the woods scene.

JW381

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1/22/2014 7:07 PM

For sure, I'm all about a smooth rideable motor. Hell, when you read factory bike tests in mags they always talk about how RV or James likes a "smooth broad power curve". Obviously their bikes have more power at each stage of the curve but still, same theory applies.

And Kiwi, it's an interesting question (why the mags focus on HP) so not a dumb inquiry or anything. I just think it has more to do with the obsession with power versus it's actual usefulness.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

JW381

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1/22/2014 7:09 PM

mx_563 wrote:

a bit OT but with JCR getting out of desert racing and into woods racing (with Honda's support), are we going to see a newer sleeker, more woods ready CRF450X any time soon???? The X is a great bike as it is, but it would certainly benefit from a diet before entering the woods scene.

Good question, I dunno, but I wanna get into woods riding so bad. There's good woods north and south of me, but it's quite a drive.

Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

Crush

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1/22/2014 7:16 PM

mx_563 wrote:

a bit OT but with JCR getting out of desert racing and into woods racing (with Honda's support), are we going to see a newer sleeker, more woods ready CRF450X any time soon???? The X is a great bike as it is, but it would certainly benefit from a diet before entering the woods scene.

JW381 wrote:

Good question, I dunno, but I wanna get into woods riding so bad. There's good woods north and south of me, but it's quite a drive.

Is the CRF-X much heavier than the RMZ-X or whatever the yellow one is?

Cheers, Crush
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BobPA

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1/22/2014 7:26 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

1% of the worlds population is good enough to qualify for a national or a GP..and that excludes most local pros/A racers , depending on the region of course. That 1% of riders doesnt care what the magazines say because the way they ride and setup their bikes is alien to mortals like us

Even when magazines refer to a bike being better for pro riders, they're referring to local A guys..most of which couldn't even qualify for the C class at Lorettas.

Magazines in America give advice to the lowest common denominator of motocross rider..the weekend warrior who rides practice or the occasional racer

1% of 7.139 billion is 71,390,000....that's a lot of national caliber bros.

Jason Anderson FTW

JLO42

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1/22/2014 7:46 PM

The rmx isn't available in the states crush. As for the crf450x it may be awhile before you see a new version. It is a niche bike and most woods riders that would truly benefit from from an updated chassis and air fork would probably buy a moto version anyhow . The crf450x is an awesome bike for the average guy/casual woods rider

Team Chicken Wing

Crush

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1/22/2014 7:49 PM

Really?

Fuck you're right, just checked the Suzuki america website. So I guess Strang was racing a RMZ in GNCC?

Suzuki is weird about what they put where etc.

Cheers, Crush
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JLO42

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1/22/2014 7:55 PM

We had one, at a dealership I worked at and Suzuki made us crate it up and they came picked it up and shipped it back to japan. Emissions thing I think

Team Chicken Wing

ihatemotocross

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1/22/2014 8:15 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I agree but does that mean that the magazines are only focused on the winner being a bike thats good for a pro? Thats how I see it....seems to me that if its a 'average' rider then the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's are not the best bike for them?

But as a poster said above I doubt Honda will ever make a fire breathing CRF450

ihatemotocross wrote:

1% of the worlds population is good enough to qualify for a national or a GP..and that excludes most local pros/A racers , depending on the region of course. That 1% of riders doesnt care what the magazines say because the way they ride and setup their bikes is alien to mortals like us

Even when magazines refer to a bike being better for pro riders, they're referring to local A guys..most of which couldn't even qualify for the C class at Lorettas.

Magazines in America give advice to the lowest common denominator of motocross rider..the weekend warrior who rides practice or the occasional racer

BobPA wrote:

1% of 7.139 billion is 71,390,000....that's a lot of national caliber bros.

0.00001%

TeamGreen

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1/22/2014 8:16 PM

ihatemotocross wrote:

they will stay the same

Honda makes bikes that are easy to ride fast..unless you're a national level pro or 300+ lbs you dont need a faster 450

A certain Geico Honda rider actually prefers his 450 stock over the factory bike..food for thought

TeamGreen wrote:

Uh, no.

The 2015 v 2013/14 450 is gonna be like the 1980 CR250 v the '78/'79.

But, I could be wrong.

I'm wondering "what", EACTLY, you're calling a "Stock Geico" bike...?

ihatemotocross wrote:

I can't find the post since ive been a long time lurker but I swear I saw GuyB say that Geico or one of the Honda teams had one of their riders test a stock bike and they said they fell in love with it because it was easy to ride..

I also read that Tomacs motor is pretty stock too..I mean im sure it has all the bits and goodies to make it "Factory" but its power delivery is pretty close to stock, if not stock.

Ok...let me take a stab at this...

Geico builds there own "In-House" version of a CRF450R race bike...and then there's Honda's (American Honda) version of their pseudo RC450/CR450R built with their collection of HRC goodies and their "Concept" of what it should be..."pseudo" implies that we (AMA) can't really run the Japanese RC stuff; 'cause, that pretty much implies "Works" as in Narita and his new frame, swing-arm and other Exotica...Because: THAT AIN'T PRODUCTION by a Damn-Sight! (Humor)

BUT...calling the Geico bike "stock"...? That's almost an insult (More humor). Also, I'm pretty sure whatever Geico wants is avail should they want it (Honda-HRC...etc).

Watching them practice/test at their track, I can promise you: their bike's have got the goods...their way. Their bikes make a Nice Looooooong pull from Waaaaaaaay down low...their chassis appears to be set up firm/stiff enough to make their Guys happy...or so it seems.

Geico (FC) has a history of doing things "their way".

And, it works. Really well.

"Pearls and swine bereft of me. Long and weary my road has been."
Chris Cornell, 1964-2017

Xeno

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1/22/2014 8:28 PM

This is a fun conversation.

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TeamGreen

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1/22/2014 8:36 PM

Xeno wrote:

This is a fun conversation.

Notice nothing was/is "given away"?

24 hour race? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

"Pearls and swine bereft of me. Long and weary my road has been."
Chris Cornell, 1964-2017

Xeno

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1/22/2014 8:44 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

Notice nothing was/is "given away"?

24 hour race? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

There will be a very sweet JCR Honda CRF450R (presented by Rockstar) on the line at Round 1 of the GNCC series on March 9th, 2014.

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