2011 RMZ 450 vs 2006 Eric Gorr RM300 2 stroke

MXD
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 3:23pm
The purpose of this is not to start another “2 stroke vs 4 stroke” thread. The purpose is to give an objective opinion about the two from a “average Joe’s” perspective. I mentioned in a thread over the winter that I was doing the big bore 2 stroke thing and I got a lot of messages asking for a report. So I figured I would write this up to try and be helpful.

A little bit about me, I’m a 36 year old vet B/C weekend MX racer. The 2 stroke is a 2006 RM250 that I picked up in July of last summer for $2500. It was box stock and had about 10 hours on. It was in excellent condition. I was coming off a 6 year absence from riding and I just wanted to get something cheap in case I decided that I made the right choice 6 years earlier by giving up (previous bike was a 2003 CRF450). I went to my first local race that weekend and I was hooked all over again. After the season I ordered a 2011 RMZ450 but after about a month my dealer told me that they couldn’t get one. Since I had my heart set on the RMZ, I figured I would wait and just do some work to my 250 and ride it one more year. Here are the mods:
-FMF Factory Fatty and shorty silencer
-Eric Gorr 300cc kit with porting and head work - $600
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

Eric does amazing work. The cylinder was rebored and plated and it looked perfect when I got it back. He had to modify the exhaust valve and reed cage for clearance. With the kit comes your choice of porting. The choices are bottom to mid, mid to top or a broader smoother power all the way from top to bottom. You also get your choice of head mods. Since I ran race fuel anyway, I chose to go with the high compression head and the broader more smooth power band.

The RMZ450 is a 2011 that I picked up in December of last year but I didn’t ride it until about six weeks ago. I had already done the work to my 250 because I was not expecting the bike to show up but out of the blue one arrived at my dealer so I grabbed it. Here are the mods:
- Rekluse Core EXP 2.0
-Yoshimura RD4 Full Ti exhaust
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

I’ve got 7.4 hours on the 450 so far and the first thing I can tell you is thing just pulls and pulls and pulls. The pull is probably exaggerated by the traction. The back wheel feels glued to the track. Because of that it has roll on power everywhere. When cornering conventionally while using the clutch (which you can still do with the rekluse) it turns like it’s on rails. Since installing the rekluse I noticed that it pushes the front end a little bit more when you get lazy and just rely on the rekluse. I assume this is because the front end gets abruptly unloaded and light as opposed to gradually fed power with the clutch. I’m also running the stock tires so that might have something to do with it. In spite of this, the rekluse is the best mod you can do. The bike WILL NOT stall. I was having a problem stalling it at first because the clutch would not totally disengage. I was told that in order to have a real smooth and easy clutch pull they lengthened the pivot arm on the clutch. I’m not sure if this is true but if it is then in doing so they made it difficult to ride because the bike will stall if the clutch isn’t all the way to the bars. Rather than deal with it I just installed the rekluse and it is awesome.

The RM300 is everything Eric Gorr said it would be. He told me I would ride a gear higher because the motor can pull it now. He told me that the horsepower would be well into the mid 50’s but it would feel weaker because the violent punch would be gone. He also said that because of the porting it would make peak hp a few hundred rpm above stock and pull smooth all the way there. He was 100% correct on everything he said. On tight bowl turns I would just come in, in 3rd gear, turn the front wheel down the bowl, feed it a tad bit of clutch and the motor would sing for as long as you wanted to hold it open. It doesn’t have the 450 roll on power but it’s probably as close as you will get out of a modern 2 stroke. As far as handling, it was not affected at all by the mods. The thing turns ridiculously and it sticks in the rutted turns better than any bike I’ve ever ridden.

Conclusion:
The 450 is an awesome bike and it handles and turns as good as any 4 stroke I have ridden. It has power everywhere and is a blast to ride BUT, the 2 stroke with the big bore has more than enough power to keep up at the level I ride at, it handles better and is about 30 pounds lighter. So far, I would have to say the 2 stroke is more fun. I timed a few laps on each at my local track and I’m faster on the 2 stroke after the mods. More power on a 2 stroke usually means more out of control or harder to ride. That’s not the case with the big bore. It’s is noticeably more power than stock but the power is dispersed so evenly and in places where I can use it more effectively that the bike is actually easier for me to ride. I only have about 7 hours on the 450 so I might get better on it with time and change my mind but for now, the 2 stroke is my favorite of the 2.




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yam261
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CA
5/22/2011 3:35pm
Any chance we could get a video of the two stroke without stupid music drowning out the sound of the bike.
MXD
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5/22/2011 3:37pm
yam261 wrote:
Any chance we could get a video of the two stroke without stupid music drowning out the sound of the bike.
Any chance we could get a video of the two stroke without stupid music drowning out the sound of the bike.
Funny you should put it that way, I hate music in moto videos too LOL. I have a GoPro so I can definitely do it but it'll have to wait till mid week or so.
EvanR127
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5/22/2011 3:41pm
What power curve did you chose? You just stated the options and that you pick race gas.

The Shop

MXD
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5/22/2011 3:42pm
EvanR127 wrote:
What power curve did you chose? You just stated the options and that you pick race gas.
Sorry, I just fixed it. I went with the smoother broader power and the high compression head mods for more bottom end.
txmxer
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5/22/2011 3:50pm
Excellent report.
mxb2
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5/22/2011 6:06pm
MXD wrote:
The purpose of this is not to start another “2 stroke vs 4 stroke” thread. The purpose is to give an objective opinion about the two...
The purpose of this is not to start another “2 stroke vs 4 stroke” thread. The purpose is to give an objective opinion about the two from a “average Joe’s” perspective. I mentioned in a thread over the winter that I was doing the big bore 2 stroke thing and I got a lot of messages asking for a report. So I figured I would write this up to try and be helpful.

A little bit about me, I’m a 36 year old vet B/C weekend MX racer. The 2 stroke is a 2006 RM250 that I picked up in July of last summer for $2500. It was box stock and had about 10 hours on. It was in excellent condition. I was coming off a 6 year absence from riding and I just wanted to get something cheap in case I decided that I made the right choice 6 years earlier by giving up (previous bike was a 2003 CRF450). I went to my first local race that weekend and I was hooked all over again. After the season I ordered a 2011 RMZ450 but after about a month my dealer told me that they couldn’t get one. Since I had my heart set on the RMZ, I figured I would wait and just do some work to my 250 and ride it one more year. Here are the mods:
-FMF Factory Fatty and shorty silencer
-Eric Gorr 300cc kit with porting and head work - $600
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

Eric does amazing work. The cylinder was rebored and plated and it looked perfect when I got it back. He had to modify the exhaust valve and reed cage for clearance. With the kit comes your choice of porting. The choices are bottom to mid, mid to top or a broader smoother power all the way from top to bottom. You also get your choice of head mods. Since I ran race fuel anyway, I chose to go with the high compression head and the broader more smooth power band.

The RMZ450 is a 2011 that I picked up in December of last year but I didn’t ride it until about six weeks ago. I had already done the work to my 250 because I was not expecting the bike to show up but out of the blue one arrived at my dealer so I grabbed it. Here are the mods:
- Rekluse Core EXP 2.0
-Yoshimura RD4 Full Ti exhaust
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

I’ve got 7.4 hours on the 450 so far and the first thing I can tell you is thing just pulls and pulls and pulls. The pull is probably exaggerated by the traction. The back wheel feels glued to the track. Because of that it has roll on power everywhere. When cornering conventionally while using the clutch (which you can still do with the rekluse) it turns like it’s on rails. Since installing the rekluse I noticed that it pushes the front end a little bit more when you get lazy and just rely on the rekluse. I assume this is because the front end gets abruptly unloaded and light as opposed to gradually fed power with the clutch. I’m also running the stock tires so that might have something to do with it. In spite of this, the rekluse is the best mod you can do. The bike WILL NOT stall. I was having a problem stalling it at first because the clutch would not totally disengage. I was told that in order to have a real smooth and easy clutch pull they lengthened the pivot arm on the clutch. I’m not sure if this is true but if it is then in doing so they made it difficult to ride because the bike will stall if the clutch isn’t all the way to the bars. Rather than deal with it I just installed the rekluse and it is awesome.

The RM300 is everything Eric Gorr said it would be. He told me I would ride a gear higher because the motor can pull it now. He told me that the horsepower would be well into the mid 50’s but it would feel weaker because the violent punch would be gone. He also said that because of the porting it would make peak hp a few hundred rpm above stock and pull smooth all the way there. He was 100% correct on everything he said. On tight bowl turns I would just come in, in 3rd gear, turn the front wheel down the bowl, feed it a tad bit of clutch and the motor would sing for as long as you wanted to hold it open. It doesn’t have the 450 roll on power but it’s probably as close as you will get out of a modern 2 stroke. As far as handling, it was not affected at all by the mods. The thing turns ridiculously and it sticks in the rutted turns better than any bike I’ve ever ridden.

Conclusion:
The 450 is an awesome bike and it handles and turns as good as any 4 stroke I have ridden. It has power everywhere and is a blast to ride BUT, the 2 stroke with the big bore has more than enough power to keep up at the level I ride at, it handles better and is about 30 pounds lighter. So far, I would have to say the 2 stroke is more fun. I timed a few laps on each at my local track and I’m faster on the 2 stroke after the mods. More power on a 2 stroke usually means more out of control or harder to ride. That’s not the case with the big bore. It’s is noticeably more power than stock but the power is dispersed so evenly and in places where I can use it more effectively that the bike is actually easier for me to ride. I only have about 7 hours on the 450 so I might get better on it with time and change my mind but for now, the 2 stroke is my favorite of the 2.




What part of the country are you in?, if your gonna sell the rmz let me know, i lnow somebody lookin for a 11 rmz 450
oldx
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Camano Island, WA US
5/22/2011 6:50pm
Man that rm300 looks so sick. I would love to find a slightly used 2006-2007 rm250.
X2
Overdrive
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Fort Myers, FL US
5/22/2011 7:06pm
Yeah thanks for the write up, it was question that I was milling around in my head as well. I picked up a 04 rm 250 a few weeks ago with about 10 hours on it as well and was thinking of doing the 300 kit.
jimmie
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5/22/2011 7:33pm
Regardless of your findings, you have the best of both worlds there. Nice report.

Two absolutely bitchin' bikes. Lucky you.

Life is good.
MXD
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5/22/2011 8:00pm
Motodude wrote:
Ya sure thats a 450 in the photo?
I am 100% sure. What makes you think it's not? If you are referring to the black backgrounds, they signify Vet Novice in the organization I race with most often. Background color has nothing to do with bike size.
MXD
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5/22/2011 8:03pm
mxb2 wrote:
What part of the country are you in?, if your gonna sell the rmz let me know, i lnow somebody lookin for a 11 rmz 450
I'm in MA. If I decide to let it go I'll let you know. I want to put some more time on it before I decide.
BobbyM
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5/23/2011 6:28am
very cool write up. thanks
mxb2
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5/23/2011 7:20am
mxb2 wrote:
What part of the country are you in?, if your gonna sell the rmz let me know, i lnow somebody lookin for a 11 rmz 450
MXD wrote:
I'm in MA. If I decide to let it go I'll let you know. I want to put some more time on it before I decide.
Ten4, thanks, btw, 2 great bikes!
burn1986
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bossier city, LA US
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5/23/2011 8:23am Edited Date/Time 5/23/2011 8:24am
How cool would it be to have an RM150 and RM300 in the Nats. . .
FlickitFlat
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5/23/2011 8:31am
The one on the left... Standing beside the Amazon Pig on the right.... Yea! That one!
adamdf
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5/23/2011 8:38am
very nice!

Did you find the vibration increased with the 300 kit?
ccoady454
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5/23/2011 8:42am
Man that rm300 looks so sick. I would love to find a slightly used 2006-2007 rm250.
oldx wrote:
X2
I have a low hour 2007 RM 250 for sale (maybe)....bought new July of last year. I would love to have the time to put a 300 kit in her and race a few weekend races.
MXD
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5/23/2011 8:50am
adamdf wrote:
very nice!

Did you find the vibration increased with the 300 kit?
Not at all. Eric Gorr doesn't just hog out a cylinder and call it a day. He has spent years developing this kit. He uses a lightweight piston from Wiseco that weighs the same as stock.


One point I tried to make but I didn't come right out and say it is that if you ride at the level I ride at and you want to be competitive you certainly can go out and buy a nice new 4 stroke but you don't have to. Also, for those that don't like the hit of a 2 stroke motor and prefer the linear power, this kit can be ported to your liking. My 300 has very little hit in the mid range. It just pulls good everywhere. The best part is the cost. Not counting the things I didn't need to do (powder coated wheels, frame and stuff like that) I'm into the bike for $3100. Pretty good financial move for this sport LOL
MXD
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5/23/2011 8:52am
Man that rm300 looks so sick. I would love to find a slightly used 2006-2007 rm250.
oldx wrote:
X2
ccoady454 wrote:
I have a low hour 2007 RM 250 for sale (maybe)....bought new July of last year. I would love to have the time to put a...
I have a low hour 2007 RM 250 for sale (maybe)....bought new July of last year. I would love to have the time to put a 300 kit in her and race a few weekend races.
It takes no longer than doing a top end (not counting sending the parts out).
ccoady454
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5/23/2011 9:06am
oldx wrote:
X2
ccoady454 wrote:
I have a low hour 2007 RM 250 for sale (maybe)....bought new July of last year. I would love to have the time to put a...
I have a low hour 2007 RM 250 for sale (maybe)....bought new July of last year. I would love to have the time to put a 300 kit in her and race a few weekend races.
MXD wrote:
It takes no longer than doing a top end (not counting sending the parts out).
Oh, no I meant the time to RIDE it, not the time to do the 300cc upgrade. I can do 2 stroke top ends in my sleep Smile
DrSweden
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5/23/2011 10:35am Edited Date/Time 5/23/2011 10:37am
MXD wrote:
Not at all. Eric Gorr doesn't just hog out a cylinder and call it a day. He has spent years developing this kit. He uses a...
Not at all. Eric Gorr doesn't just hog out a cylinder and call it a day. He has spent years developing this kit. He uses a lightweight piston from Wiseco that weighs the same as stock.


One point I tried to make but I didn't come right out and say it is that if you ride at the level I ride at and you want to be competitive you certainly can go out and buy a nice new 4 stroke but you don't have to. Also, for those that don't like the hit of a 2 stroke motor and prefer the linear power, this kit can be ported to your liking. My 300 has very little hit in the mid range. It just pulls good everywhere. The best part is the cost. Not counting the things I didn't need to do (powder coated wheels, frame and stuff like that) I'm into the bike for $3100. Pretty good financial move for this sport LOL
Good report, and very nice outcome of your experiment. $3100!!! Damn, some are envious I can assure you. Bloody good work. Where in Mass are you? Where do you ride?

And by the way, that smoker got all of my attention... Was there a 450 in the pic as well? Damn...
motoxmuscle
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El Cajon, CA US
5/28/2011 8:25pm
Ah, my 03 YZ250 is begging for an "enhancement". Looks like I may need to get some Gorr-zyte. This is a great post and article.
bd
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5/28/2011 10:08pm
burn1986 wrote:
How cool would it be to have an RM150 and RM300 in the Nats. . .
A 150T or 300T does not have a chance against factory bikes. Needs to be a 180T and 360T.
seth505
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5/28/2011 10:33pm
sweet bikes for sure, looks like a fun comparison to test out.
burnside
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5/29/2011 1:18am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2011 1:18am
Thats a tasty little fleet you have there. Nice one.

Any reports on how that tuning will effect the reliability of the RM?
HatersSuck
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5/29/2011 4:43am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2011 4:50am
MXD wrote:
The purpose of this is not to start another “2 stroke vs 4 stroke” thread. The purpose is to give an objective opinion about the two...
The purpose of this is not to start another “2 stroke vs 4 stroke” thread. The purpose is to give an objective opinion about the two from a “average Joe’s” perspective. I mentioned in a thread over the winter that I was doing the big bore 2 stroke thing and I got a lot of messages asking for a report. So I figured I would write this up to try and be helpful.

A little bit about me, I’m a 36 year old vet B/C weekend MX racer. The 2 stroke is a 2006 RM250 that I picked up in July of last summer for $2500. It was box stock and had about 10 hours on. It was in excellent condition. I was coming off a 6 year absence from riding and I just wanted to get something cheap in case I decided that I made the right choice 6 years earlier by giving up (previous bike was a 2003 CRF450). I went to my first local race that weekend and I was hooked all over again. After the season I ordered a 2011 RMZ450 but after about a month my dealer told me that they couldn’t get one. Since I had my heart set on the RMZ, I figured I would wait and just do some work to my 250 and ride it one more year. Here are the mods:
-FMF Factory Fatty and shorty silencer
-Eric Gorr 300cc kit with porting and head work - $600
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

Eric does amazing work. The cylinder was rebored and plated and it looked perfect when I got it back. He had to modify the exhaust valve and reed cage for clearance. With the kit comes your choice of porting. The choices are bottom to mid, mid to top or a broader smoother power all the way from top to bottom. You also get your choice of head mods. Since I ran race fuel anyway, I chose to go with the high compression head and the broader more smooth power band.

The RMZ450 is a 2011 that I picked up in December of last year but I didn’t ride it until about six weeks ago. I had already done the work to my 250 because I was not expecting the bike to show up but out of the blue one arrived at my dealer so I grabbed it. Here are the mods:
- Rekluse Core EXP 2.0
-Yoshimura RD4 Full Ti exhaust
-Factory Connection revalve and respring

I’ve got 7.4 hours on the 450 so far and the first thing I can tell you is thing just pulls and pulls and pulls. The pull is probably exaggerated by the traction. The back wheel feels glued to the track. Because of that it has roll on power everywhere. When cornering conventionally while using the clutch (which you can still do with the rekluse) it turns like it’s on rails. Since installing the rekluse I noticed that it pushes the front end a little bit more when you get lazy and just rely on the rekluse. I assume this is because the front end gets abruptly unloaded and light as opposed to gradually fed power with the clutch. I’m also running the stock tires so that might have something to do with it. In spite of this, the rekluse is the best mod you can do. The bike WILL NOT stall. I was having a problem stalling it at first because the clutch would not totally disengage. I was told that in order to have a real smooth and easy clutch pull they lengthened the pivot arm on the clutch. I’m not sure if this is true but if it is then in doing so they made it difficult to ride because the bike will stall if the clutch isn’t all the way to the bars. Rather than deal with it I just installed the rekluse and it is awesome.

The RM300 is everything Eric Gorr said it would be. He told me I would ride a gear higher because the motor can pull it now. He told me that the horsepower would be well into the mid 50’s but it would feel weaker because the violent punch would be gone. He also said that because of the porting it would make peak hp a few hundred rpm above stock and pull smooth all the way there. He was 100% correct on everything he said. On tight bowl turns I would just come in, in 3rd gear, turn the front wheel down the bowl, feed it a tad bit of clutch and the motor would sing for as long as you wanted to hold it open. It doesn’t have the 450 roll on power but it’s probably as close as you will get out of a modern 2 stroke. As far as handling, it was not affected at all by the mods. The thing turns ridiculously and it sticks in the rutted turns better than any bike I’ve ever ridden.

Conclusion:
The 450 is an awesome bike and it handles and turns as good as any 4 stroke I have ridden. It has power everywhere and is a blast to ride BUT, the 2 stroke with the big bore has more than enough power to keep up at the level I ride at, it handles better and is about 30 pounds lighter. So far, I would have to say the 2 stroke is more fun. I timed a few laps on each at my local track and I’m faster on the 2 stroke after the mods. More power on a 2 stroke usually means more out of control or harder to ride. That’s not the case with the big bore. It’s is noticeably more power than stock but the power is dispersed so evenly and in places where I can use it more effectively that the bike is actually easier for me to ride. I only have about 7 hours on the 450 so I might get better on it with time and change my mind but for now, the 2 stroke is my favorite of the 2.




I had Gorr to the same thing to my 06 RM250. The only difference is I chose to have the cylinder decked.

IMO Gorr is very creative and does the best mod work out there. He is not a cookie cutter guy like 99% of the mod guys out there.

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