'2010 MXA 450 Shootout' winner

bvm111
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bvm111 2/6/2010 4:53pm
2/6/2010 4:53pm
What was the conflict of interest between swap/TWMX/ and kawasaki..... Inquiring minds want to know!

Pdub
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Pdub 2/6/2010 5:10pm
2/6/2010 5:10pm
Holigan wrote:
The term mind control (also referred to as “brainwashing,” “coercive persuasion,” “thought reform,” and the “systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence”) refers (according to Michael...
The term mind control (also referred to as “brainwashing,” “coercive persuasion,” “thought reform,” and the “systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence”) refers (according to Michael Langone) "to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated .[1] Various commentators[who?] identify broad ranges of psychological tactics seen as subverting individuals' sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions, or decision making.
Wow, that's a good definition of mind control. So what do we call "ethicallly" manipulative methods like advertising, sponsorship and advocacy commentary? Wink
FlaNard
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FlaNard 2/6/2010 7:05pm
2/6/2010 7:05pm
Kinetic1 wrote:
Call me silly but I always take MXA at face value. Every bike that I have ridden over the years has been exactly what they said...
Call me silly but I always take MXA at face value. Every bike that I have ridden over the years has been exactly what they said it was. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And what they said would make it better did. EVERY SINGLE TIME! With that having happend over the last 20 years why would I ever not take them at their word? If they say the KTM is the best bike this year then it is. No questions asked. I will only ever doubt them when what I wrote above changes.
My experience also.
sozo
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sozo 2/6/2010 7:23pm
2/6/2010 7:23pm
Ok but would you buy a KTM over a aluminum frame, Linkage, EFI, Yamaha with parts and dealers everywhere???? Im leary... Steel frames are not even in the same league as aluminum either. Did you hear the Travis Preston podcast about the KTM fram in SX flexing all over the place? Steel frams last only several races in the pro's... Aluminum can last 9+ races to all year without stretching or going out of spec.

So as I see it, Yamaha won for me...

I would however like to ride a 2010 Suzuki 450 and 2010 Yami 450 back to back though.... Loved the 09 Zook 450...!!! I own an 08 Yami 450 now.

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newmann
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newmann 2/6/2010 7:36pm
2/6/2010 7:36pm
While the Big 4 keep telling you what you are going to like, KTM has been asking what would you like. They paid attention to the constant belittling that MXA bestowed on them year after year after year and finally delivered the Americanized version of a Euro bike. Well built, excellent quality parts, hydraulic clutch (that some of the big 4 are sporting on the team bikes) e-start and lighter in weight than the other 1/8 ton pigs. Better performance out of a simple carb instead of the high tech route. From what I heard it is actually less expensive than some of the other 450 offerings. How could that be???Unsure
mx317
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mx317 2/6/2010 7:47pm
2/6/2010 7:47pm
sozo wrote:
Ok but would you buy a KTM over a aluminum frame, Linkage, EFI, Yamaha with parts and dealers everywhere???? Im leary... Steel frames are not even...
Ok but would you buy a KTM over a aluminum frame, Linkage, EFI, Yamaha with parts and dealers everywhere???? Im leary... Steel frames are not even in the same league as aluminum either. Did you hear the Travis Preston podcast about the KTM fram in SX flexing all over the place? Steel frams last only several races in the pro's... Aluminum can last 9+ races to all year without stretching or going out of spec.

So as I see it, Yamaha won for me...

I would however like to ride a 2010 Suzuki 450 and 2010 Yami 450 back to back though.... Loved the 09 Zook 450...!!! I own an 08 Yami 450 now.
The KTM handles better, has more HP, works level brakes, you can change the air filter with no tools instead of taking off the gas tank, has an electric starter and is still 8 lbs lighter than the Yamaha.
Friday
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Friday 2/6/2010 7:49pm
2/6/2010 7:49pm
xnationalwrench wrote:
I can't say now but back in the day I know that MXA raced and practiced week in and week out with the different test bikes...
I can't say now but back in the day I know that MXA raced and practiced week in and week out with the different test bikes and if you knew Jody and the boys you could race a 2nd Moto for one of them or just borrow the bike for a weekend of racing. So what I'm trying to sayis the really do check out the bikes before they say they are good or bad.
I ride with those guys all the time. I rarely go to the track when they aren't testing,racing,training,etc. They really do try a ton of different things and truly try to find the truth as close as a large span of varying riders can get. They will sit and tell you what they found works and give you info for fixes right there at the track.They've even told me my 07 crf 450 is the bike to have.Smile

Anyway,I also ride with Swap on occasion as well and find all his guys to be top notch. But it comes down to my height,weight,speed,style,etc. as to what bike starts out best for me,then tweak it from there.IMHO.
newmann
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newmann 2/6/2010 7:52pm
2/6/2010 7:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:37pm
sozo wrote:
Ok but would you buy a KTM over a aluminum frame, Linkage, EFI, Yamaha with parts and dealers everywhere???? Im leary... Steel frames are not even...
Ok but would you buy a KTM over a aluminum frame, Linkage, EFI, Yamaha with parts and dealers everywhere???? Im leary... Steel frames are not even in the same league as aluminum either. Did you hear the Travis Preston podcast about the KTM fram in SX flexing all over the place? Steel frams last only several races in the pro's... Aluminum can last 9+ races to all year without stretching or going out of spec.

So as I see it, Yamaha won for me...

I would however like to ride a 2010 Suzuki 450 and 2010 Yami 450 back to back though.... Loved the 09 Zook 450...!!! I own an 08 Yami 450 now.
So why, after dominating SX for four years on a 93 model steel framed bike did Jeremy tell Honda to shove their aluminum framed piece of shit up their ass and go ride a Suzuki? Other than a flat tire, he would have won the 97 Championship too on a bike he was completely unfamiliar with and had no pre-season testing in on. Then he went to Yamaha on steel frames and laid waste to the competiton for another three years. Seems I recall Jeremy didn't want aluminum skid plates bolted directly to his steel frames because it made them too stiff. Just a fluke?

I'll go for a nicely done steel frame like KTM produces. Probably lighter than all the other aluminum frames too. The only KTM in our garage currently is an 08 144. So much fun it ought to be illegal.
mx836
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mx836 2/6/2010 7:59pm
2/6/2010 7:59pm
To say that the aluminum frame is better than a steel one is a bunch of bullshit. Didn't the japs start using aluminum because it was cheaper?
sozo
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sozo 2/6/2010 8:06pm
2/6/2010 8:06pm
no way... just the opposite. aluminum is lots more money. steel cracks, stretches , easier to weld, cheaper.... !
Truckdriver
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Truckdriver 2/6/2010 8:33pm
2/6/2010 8:33pm
Whats the skinny on KTM using link type suspension on there bikes. Heck maybe they could talk to Coy and his team, and have them design and build for them.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 2/6/2010 8:39pm
2/6/2010 8:39pm
Aluminum frames aren't all they're cracked up to be....they are too rigid for starters. Steel frames have more "good flex" and thus handle better IMO.

As for Preston and his frame flexing, you failed to mention 2 important things: One he was using suspension so stiff for the rest of us the bike would feel like it had no suspension at all, thus causing unwanted flex that NONE of us would EVER be able to notice and Two, with the shock attached to one side of the frame like it is in SX trim i.e. stiff suspension it could be loading the frame in a way that is is causing it to flex....again, nothing anyone but the top pro's would EVER notice. Personally I really don't care for aluminum frames and think the steel frames are a lot more supple.
sozo
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sozo 2/6/2010 8:49pm
2/6/2010 8:49pm
interesting observations...
aggiemoto99
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aggiemoto99 2/6/2010 9:39pm
2/6/2010 9:39pm
I think it's very telling that the steel framed carb'd bike reigned surpreme this year.

Why? It tells you a lot about the direction the bikes are and have headed...and that it's not an improvement.

What I PERSONALLY would love to see is a shoot out of just ONE brand of bike...going back ten year models...heck 15 if possible (and I mean thats as in their bike that fit that class of that time - 250 two stroke would be around what..01-02??)

I would like that shoot out to be on all stock bikes that were "newish" and include lap times..
The results would be (because I kinda know..) very telling that all the "progression" we have seen hasn't improved the avg consumers lap times hardly at all.

Pit Row

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