2-strokes in EX, and the dilution of the Nac-Nac

Xracer
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504
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US
Edited Date/Time 3/11/2015 7:02pm
The jumbo ribeye I belted back 8 hours ago is still keeping me awake, so I'm bored, tired and irritated...a bad combo.

So why are 2-strokes (apparently) still the weapon of choice in Endurocross, but so (apparently) useless in Supercross? Seems weird to me. Maybe the KTM300 really is the perfect dirt scooter, but illegal in SX due to that extra 50cc. I actually miss the satisfaction you feel as you drop a 2-stroke cylinder down over a fresh and oily $62 piston & rings. That initial apprehension when it feels like it may not go...maybe in your 2-fingered-ring-squeeze, one of the rings rotated over the locating pin? But then the relief as the rings tuck in and smoothly ride the bevel up into the bore and the cylinder glides down an lands with a muffled thump on the new base gasket. Only one feeling in the world is better than that, and sliding a feeler gauge between a cam and bucket doesn't even come close. God dammit I'm getting a KTM300 this year!

And in closing...nobody (even McGrath) has improved on the original Nac-Nac in all these years. I wince when I see it attempted today...the bike is always too nose-high and the attemptee is the only part that moves. You older guys know the feeling...don't lie. When MC first started throwing them in 94' and 95', he would pitch the bike out almost perpendicular to the direction of the track while keeping the bike fairly "level" with respect to pitch. It was an athletic and physics thing of beauty. The ones you see the retro hipster kids (like Chad Reed) pulling off today just look lazy...the moto equivalent of saggy pants and flip-flops. Even MC hasn't thrown them the same since those days. It's a damn shame.
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nytsmaC
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Frig Off CA
3/11/2015 2:51am
Confession. I like to sniff my fingers after rebuilding a 2-stroke top end. Burnt 927 has a nice smell.
reded
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3/11/2015 3:16am
MC always went for full extension with the look back, as if he were saying....
BD233
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DFW, TX US
3/11/2015 4:36am Edited Date/Time 3/11/2015 4:37am
2 strokes run cooler at slow speeds...plus less money in the race team budget..MC still throws the rear out...if you have ever done a NAC NAC you will understand the trick can slip away from you (literally) pretty easy...if you pitch the back out too far you end up with one toe on the peg and that's not a good feeling. The freestyle guys still do them as big as ever.

The Shop

wreckitrandy
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3856
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Granite Falls, NC US
3/11/2015 5:16am
Jimmy Stewart does completely upside down whipped nac-nacs.
Yeah but not everybody gets invited to the compound to watch him do them......
3/11/2015 5:29am
Endurocross and Supercross are two different types of racing. The bikes are not set up the same way and require different features to perform.
Old-Man
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Colorado springs, CO US
3/11/2015 6:04am
Xracer wrote:
The jumbo ribeye I belted back 8 hours ago is still keeping me awake, so I'm bored, tired and irritated...a bad combo. So why are 2-strokes...
The jumbo ribeye I belted back 8 hours ago is still keeping me awake, so I'm bored, tired and irritated...a bad combo.

So why are 2-strokes (apparently) still the weapon of choice in Endurocross, but so (apparently) useless in Supercross? Seems weird to me. Maybe the KTM300 really is the perfect dirt scooter, but illegal in SX due to that extra 50cc. I actually miss the satisfaction you feel as you drop a 2-stroke cylinder down over a fresh and oily $62 piston & rings. That initial apprehension when it feels like it may not go...maybe in your 2-fingered-ring-squeeze, one of the rings rotated over the locating pin? But then the relief as the rings tuck in and smoothly ride the bevel up into the bore and the cylinder glides down an lands with a muffled thump on the new base gasket. Only one feeling in the world is better than that, and sliding a feeler gauge between a cam and bucket doesn't even come close. God dammit I'm getting a KTM300 this year!

And in closing...nobody (even McGrath) has improved on the original Nac-Nac in all these years. I wince when I see it attempted today...the bike is always too nose-high and the attemptee is the only part that moves. You older guys know the feeling...don't lie. When MC first started throwing them in 94' and 95', he would pitch the bike out almost perpendicular to the direction of the track while keeping the bike fairly "level" with respect to pitch. It was an athletic and physics thing of beauty. The ones you see the retro hipster kids (like Chad Reed) pulling off today just look lazy...the moto equivalent of saggy pants and flip-flops. Even MC hasn't thrown them the same since those days. It's a damn shame.
This belongs in the Moto Porn section
3/11/2015 6:44am
I don't know man, there's still a few people who can do em right!

And, there's people who have learned to do them on the outside of their whip.



RPM68
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DFW, TX US
3/11/2015 6:52am
I love my 300, its pulls 450s. I bought it bc I spend alot of time in the woods. However it was mine and another competitors choice at LL this year in +25.

my cousin has one that is pushing 56 HP. Its superrrr nasty.
3/11/2015 6:58am
I think most of the EX guys ride 250s not 300s, but I could be wrong. I know few of the Enduro guys ride 300s, almost all ride 250s if they ride a two stroke.
cslacker
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Glendale, AZ US
3/11/2015 8:37am
Cody Webb, Kyle Redmond and Max Gerston are all on 300s I believe. Talking to an Endurox rider a couple days ago he told me they detune them a bit but the big torque of the 300 and light weight is perfect for that type of riding.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
3/11/2015 8:49am
You must mean fresh "$62 Rings", right?
CR250Rider
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Moses Lake, WA US
3/11/2015 9:22am
I enjoy reading the burn pattern on the top of the piston and tweaking (grinding) my transfer ports a tad when I do a piston

always trying to achieve the perfect balanced burn
Xracer
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US
3/11/2015 10:55am
TeamGreen wrote:
You must mean fresh "$62 Rings", right?
My last yz125 top end ( the one in my avatar) was 62 bucks...
JM485
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Davis, CA US
3/11/2015 11:33am
From my experience at a much slower speed than the pros, two strokes seem to be a better fit for endurocross in my opinion. I can tell a lot more easily where my rm250 is in the rpms than I can with my yz450f, which made it easier for me to keep traction and lug the bike. I have a recluse in the rm now, but before I put it on I could definately tell when it was about to stall more easily compared to the 450, which really likes to flame out in the tight stuff. The two stroke is also easier for me to move around, which you do a lot of racing one of those courses. Overall, it's going to depend on what each individual rider is comfortable with, but for me personally the two stroke is a no brained for that type of racing, especially since I'm tall but don't weigh a lot. I'm pretty sure both Mike and Colton use a 350 rather than 450, not 100% sure on that though.

Interesting note, I ready a few years ago that Taddy couldn't run a titanium rear axel because he would bend them so bad, and he even bent a stock one every race!
Xracer
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3/11/2015 4:45pm
No idea who took the pic, but its classic MC. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/11/83399/s1200_Nac_Nac_at_Adams_place.jpg[/img]
No idea who took the pic, but its classic MC.


This. The key is tip of boot on foot peg, full extension
neverwas
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Tucson, AZ US
Fantasy
740th
3/11/2015 5:16pm
Xracer wrote:
The jumbo ribeye I belted back 8 hours ago is still keeping me awake, so I'm bored, tired and irritated...a bad combo. So why are 2-strokes...
The jumbo ribeye I belted back 8 hours ago is still keeping me awake, so I'm bored, tired and irritated...a bad combo.

So why are 2-strokes (apparently) still the weapon of choice in Endurocross, but so (apparently) useless in Supercross? Seems weird to me. Maybe the KTM300 really is the perfect dirt scooter, but illegal in SX due to that extra 50cc. I actually miss the satisfaction you feel as you drop a 2-stroke cylinder down over a fresh and oily $62 piston & rings. That initial apprehension when it feels like it may not go...maybe in your 2-fingered-ring-squeeze, one of the rings rotated over the locating pin? But then the relief as the rings tuck in and smoothly ride the bevel up into the bore and the cylinder glides down an lands with a muffled thump on the new base gasket. Only one feeling in the world is better than that, and sliding a feeler gauge between a cam and bucket doesn't even come close. God dammit I'm getting a KTM300 this year!

And in closing...nobody (even McGrath) has improved on the original Nac-Nac in all these years. I wince when I see it attempted today...the bike is always too nose-high and the attemptee is the only part that moves. You older guys know the feeling...don't lie. When MC first started throwing them in 94' and 95', he would pitch the bike out almost perpendicular to the direction of the track while keeping the bike fairly "level" with respect to pitch. It was an athletic and physics thing of beauty. The ones you see the retro hipster kids (like Chad Reed) pulling off today just look lazy...the moto equivalent of saggy pants and flip-flops. Even MC hasn't thrown them the same since those days. It's a damn shame.
The description of doing a top end on the two stroke brought back many great memories of being teenager in the garage,great days.
You will love the 300,I can't think of anyone that has said anything negative about the bike.
reded
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KS US
3/11/2015 5:25pm
No idea who took the pic, but its classic MC. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/11/83399/s1200_Nac_Nac_at_Adams_place.jpg[/img]
No idea who took the pic, but its classic MC.


Xracer wrote:
This. The key is tip of boot on foot peg, full extension
The guy extends farther than anyone and looks back....the look back is where it's at.
Hut
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3/11/2015 5:30pm
Cool Yes!
FB
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3/11/2015 5:50pm

FB
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3/11/2015 5:52pm
3/11/2015 6:42pm
It's funny how motocross and enduro sort have gone the other way. It used to be 2 strokes for motocross and 4 strokes for trails. Now it's the opposite. And I'd say that's mostly because of KTM and the Euro brands keeping the 2 strokes alive.

Also, always thought TP199 was one of the best nac nac-ers out there. Even has full extension during flips:

endurox
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Garden City, ID US
3/11/2015 7:02pm
It's funny how motocross and enduro sort have gone the other way. It used to be 2 strokes for motocross and 4 strokes for trails. Now...
It's funny how motocross and enduro sort have gone the other way. It used to be 2 strokes for motocross and 4 strokes for trails. Now it's the opposite. And I'd say that's mostly because of KTM and the Euro brands keeping the 2 strokes alive.

Also, always thought TP199 was one of the best nac nac-ers out there. Even has full extension during flips:

Charger lightning bolts, What year was this race in San Diego?

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